NEW iPhones

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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby keenmaster486 » 2019-9-12 @ 14:55

No iPhone SE successor? I'm out!

I will use my iPhone SE until it functions no more. I'll replace the battery and hack the OS as much as is necessary to make it continue working.

When it breaks, unless Apple has got their heads back in the game, I'm going to be forced to switch to Android.

Apple had the perfect smartphone with the SE, and here's why:

  • Size: fits in pocket without being obtrusive and large enough for normal phone tasks
  • Functionality: does everything that is expected of a smartphone
  • OS: iOS remains the best designed smartphone OS, even if they converged on the perfect design with maybe iOS 5, and have been making needless and arbitrary tweaks since then
  • Ports: Lightning is a fine port. Headphone jack is necessary; I am both a "simple design is best" guy and an audio purist. I can't be bothered with Bluetooth; just let me plug my nice expensive headphones into the jack!
  • Aesthetic design: sharp edges and metallic finish in all the right places; the newer phones hearken back to the original iPhone which in my opinion was too bulbous and bubbly and didn't look sleek and professional. But that's just my personal opinion.
  • Buttons: volume, muting switch, power, home button - in all the right places. The home button does not belong under the screen; when the entire screen face moves when you press the button it's so disconcerting and unsatisfying. Buttons should be discrete. Integration is not an ultimate good here! Also moving the power button to the side of the phone was arbitrary and unnecessary; they probably just did it because of changes to the internals that forced them to move it, and then marketing billed it as "better" somehow.
  • Camera: "good enough". It takes pictures and HD video. They look good enough to share on social media. Enough said. A smartphone should not be the camera you use when you actually need a really good quality picture.
  • Little frills like flashlight, compass, etc.
  • Fingerprint sensor: nice. Works amazingly well. How well it works is a big factor here; implementation is key with something as crucial as this.

Why can't they settle in on something good when they find it?

Commodore made the Commodore 64 for more than a decade because it was the perfect computer for the 80's. I wish Apple would do that for the iPhone. Every new SE could get the previous generation iPhone's internals, so on and so on.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby dr_st » 2019-9-12 @ 17:00

chinny22 wrote:I do prefer IOS to android. Like the OS you know where everything is.
Android is like newer version of windows, over reliance of the search function as menu is a mess.
That's a fallacy. People are comfortable with whatever they are used to. I use an Android smartphone, wife uses an iPhone and none has particular inherent advantages over the other when it comes to interface.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby SirNickity » 2019-9-12 @ 18:27

keenmaster486 wrote:No iPhone SE successor? I'm out!


This is an interesting look into the problem with single-vendor products -- the lack of options.

"Size: fits in pocket without being obtrusive and large enough for normal phone tasks"
My sig. other would agree. She is leaning toward the 11 Pro because it's ever-so-smaller than the 11, but it's still a touch larger than the older 6/7/8 design, which she already felt was too big to use with one hand.

"]OS: iOS remains the best designed smartphone OS, even if they converged on the perfect design with maybe iOS 5, and have been making needless and arbitrary tweaks since then"
The tech industry is run by children, who are fascinated with shaking things up and exploring new possibilities. Admirable trait on one hand, as it drives innovation. OTOH, standard, non-virtual, interfaces we deal with daily don't change arbitrarily. Telephones always worked by lifting them from a cradle (until they were electronic, and then the functionality moved to a button, but was still an analog of the existing thing.) Door knobs still work the same way. Water faucets. Toasters. If Google made a toaster, there wouldn't be any indication of it, but you would be expected to swipe left for bagel, swipe right for toast. Oh, actually, I though of an exception: New laundry machines can be a little perplexing at first sight, but I think that's because they're being design by software guys now.

"Ports: Lightning is a fine port. Headphone jack is necessary ... just let me plug my nice expensive headphones into the jack!"
I agree. I kind of see the justification of this... BT is definitely taking over for wired, and wired is still an option.... with a dongle. I don't love the idea of requiring extra hardware for something that really should be built-in, but this isn't the hill I'm going to die on anymore. (A couple years ago, I was pretty miffed about it. Now, I make coffee while listening to a podcast and think... I really should get some wireless earbuds, the wires are always in the way -- too long and/or too short.)

"Camera: good enough. ... A smartphone should not be the camera you use when you actually need a really good quality picture."
I can't share your enthusiasm on this one, even though that is how I feel about MY phone. I don't need a fancy phone camera, a good enough one will do. I've got a nice Micro 4/3 body and a pack of lenses for when I need quality above convenience. OTOH, that's an investment in cost, size, and something extra to lug around that I don't expect everyone to find value in, and even I certainly don't keep it on me during all waking hours.

"Fingerprint sensor: nice. Works amazingly well. How well it works is a big factor here"
I think I will miss this. I'm not sold on the concept of Face ID, and aside from the times when a bare finger (without pizza sauce on it) isn't readily available, I don't know that it's actually an improvement as much as a technical accomplishment.

"Why can't they settle in on something good when they find it?"
Preach on, brother. I think it has to do with stock-holders, aka the public masses, who aren't satisfied with "this year's model is like last year's model, except improved a little." I bet you, if you took two identical companies with equivalent following, and one released a phone with 20% faster CPU, 15% better battery life, and 8% brighter screen with 2 extra bits of dynamic range... and the other released a phone with barely a bump in spec BUT it was a new design that looked a little sleeker, that's the one that would get the attention.

Although I'm still honestly not sure what everyone's talking about when they say Apple's hardware is behind the curve. Using a new-model phone always feels snappy and responsive. Maybe I'm just used to my old clunker, but to me it's like comparing two laptops -- one with a 2.4GHz quad-core CPU, and the other with a 2.8GHz quad-core CPU. I'll legit forget which one I own (I don't remember what mine is at all), because the difference just doesn't matter in practice. It's fast enough, until it isn't, and then the difference to the hot-rod probably isn't enough to matter anyway.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby ShovelKnight » 2019-9-12 @ 22:53

Apple hardware (at least in their phones and tablets) is very much ahead of the curve when it comes to the basics (their CPU performance, for example, is very much ahead of everyone else), but they're pretty conservative when it comes to including new features they deem gimmicky. That's why they don't do stupid things like announcing phones with self-breaking folding displays. I'd take this kind of conservatism over annoying featuritis any day of the week.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby JonathonWyble » 2019-9-12 @ 23:42

Some people claim that they don't really enjoy iPhones, because they say that they're "toys". Nah, I don't think that's true. I'm an iPhone user, and I see no downside that makes me call it a toy. However, one downside is that I keep getting calls from unwanted people, most likely telemarketers :angry: but that's not the point. As for payment plans, sometimes I just don't get why Apple has to make their products, as well as some of their products' features, so freaking expensive. They must be very cash-hungry :lol:
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby oeuvre » 2019-9-14 @ 13:38

i think everyone gets unwanted telemarketer calls
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby duga3 » 2019-9-14 @ 15:23

oeuvre wrote:i think everyone gets unwanted telemarketer calls


Sure, its just that you get more of them if you get tagged as a better mark for having an expensive phone.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby oeuvre » 2019-9-14 @ 15:47

Is that true?
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby dr_st » 2019-9-14 @ 16:18

oeuvre wrote:Is that true?
Absolutely not. Telemarketers around the world have many databases, many methods and many goals. You can't smear all of them with the same shitty paint (although I would want to). And besides, how would they know what phone you have? (probably sometimes they can)
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby duga3 » 2019-9-14 @ 17:01

oeuvre wrote:Is that true?


Heh, your avatar and that question together makes it seem like you are the one behind it :)

Phone number lists can be targeted just like online advertising. Depends on what you are trying to sell, sometimes you really need a targeted list of specific class of people otherwise it will be a very hard sell. Having an expensive phone would be a tiny factor in most but I can imagine someone keeping track because every little edge counts and in case the data is already there then why disregard it.

Doesnt iPhone relay iMessage or Facetime compatibility to anyone who queries it by any chance? Even if not there are surely many other ways to find out if someone is using an iPhone.

You can also target iOS/Mac for price discrimination thanks to user agent information from the web browser.

But I dont want to go too offtopic here as it does not serve the purpose of this thread I think. So enjoy new iPhones, the camera does look pretty cool on these.

dr_st wrote:
oeuvre wrote:Is that true?
Absolutely not. Telemarketers around the world have many databases, many methods and many goals. You can't smear all of them with the same shitty paint (although I would want to).


I was "just saying" it is possible, there was no moral judgement or generalization about telemarketers.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby bfcastello » 2019-9-14 @ 17:22

oeuvre wrote:i think everyone gets unwanted telemarketer calls


Here in Brazil I do. I get them all day, every day, mostly from other states (I’m from Rio de Janeiro, yet I get calls from São Paulo mostly).

<rant start>
About the new iPhones, I strongly dislike the new cameras. The design is terrible and they are unnecessary for me. The cameras are too big. My OCD can’t stand the new cameras. What the f*** I am going to do with a telephoto, wide and wide angle cameras? Nothing, I am not “Selfie generation” or a “digital influencer” (can’t believe people think it is a job). I don’t take photos with a phone, I use it primarily for social networking and web surfing, as well as messaging. That’s what a smartphone is for. This iPhone was made for the Instagram generation. I’m not going to buy it - It’s the first time since 2007 that I am very disappointed with Apple since I started to use their products. I have an iPhone X, the only thing I dislike about it is the Face ID (I was a huge fan of Touch ID). I’ll stay with the X model until Apple gets it right again and stop with this “multi camera bullshit”. If I wanted to take a professional photo, I’d use a Nikon or a Canon camera. Not a phone.

Apple has lost its magic. Recent products have been piss poor quality. Steve Jobs would be all over his employees criticizing them for not getting things right or the way he wanted it to be. He would never allow them to release a HomePod, he would never do the new Mac Pro with a cheese crater design, he would never allow a smartphone with three cameras. The only thing they got right was iPadOS and the new iPads. Biggest error? Kill 3D Touch for Haptic Touch (thus killing the useful peek and pop, I use it a lot while I browse the web on Safari).

I might move to a XR model when a new iOS version comes out without support for the X Model. Only because the X model is A11 Bionic and XR is A12 Bionic.
But I will never get the 11 model and I will never use an Android powered phone.
</rant end>
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby JonathonWyble » 2019-9-14 @ 19:16

duga3 wrote:
oeuvre wrote:i think everyone gets unwanted telemarketer calls


Sure, its just that you get more of them if you get tagged as a better mark for having an expensive phone.

Yep, that's the point. But I don't think some people would get unwanted calls like that just because they're phone is from a company that "abuses its monopoly". Also, I don't always get those kind of calls, just every once in a while it somehow happens.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby SPBHM » 2019-9-15 @ 19:43

ShovelKnight wrote:Apple hardware (at least in their phones and tablets) is very much ahead of the curve when it comes to the basics (their CPU performance, for example, is very much ahead of everyone else), but they're pretty conservative when it comes to including new features they deem gimmicky. That's why they don't do stupid things like announcing phones with self-breaking folding displays. I'd take this kind of conservatism over annoying featuritis any day of the week.


their SoC is really far ahead the competition since the Iphone 5s I think (and they highly integrated OS does help), the A7 and the ones after were great,
but yes, they have a very polished and functional device without too many gimmicks

it's not for me due to pricing and lack of flexibility in software (like loading APKs) but I'm sure am always impressed with their SoC and overall polish
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby Kerr Avon » 2019-9-17 @ 19:58

I think for most people, all they want in a new phone is basically the same phone as the one they have now, but with much better battery life, and maybe, but not a deal-breaker, more data storage capacity. For a reasonable price.

Not a slightly redesigned case or shape, not a load of new apps and programs that they'll never use, not a higher number in the phone's model description, not even a higher resolution screen. Just something that doesn't require charging every day or three.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby dr_st » 2019-9-18 @ 05:50

Kerr Avon wrote:I think for most people, all they want in a new phone is basically the same phone as the one they have now, but with much better battery life, and maybe, but not a deal-breaker, more data storage capacity. For a reasonable price.
Yep. That's why I replaced my previous 2-year old phone, which had a worn-out battery and started developing other failures, with a refurbished unit of the exact same model, but with a fresh battery and double the storage capacity. :)
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby ZellSF » 2019-9-18 @ 10:21

Kerr Avon wrote:I think for most people, all they want in a new phone is basically the same phone as the one they have now, but with much better battery life, and maybe, but not a deal-breaker, more data storage capacity. For a reasonable price.

Not a slightly redesigned case or shape, not a load of new apps and programs that they'll never use, not a higher number in the phone's model description, not even a higher resolution screen. Just something that doesn't require charging every day or three.

Uh, there's a reason most manufacturers focus on improving the camera and redesigning the phone. That's what people want. Not just better battery life.

No one wants high resolution screens, but manufacturers aren't focusing on it either. We've had 4K screens since 2017 and the average resolution on high end phones is still 1440p (and the iPhone 11 isn't even that).
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby bfcastello » 2019-9-18 @ 12:40

ZellSF wrote:Uh, there's a reason most manufacturers focus on improving the camera and redesigning the phone. That's what people want. Not just better battery life.


Oi, I, one of these so called “people”, I don’t want that. I just want better batery life and better processor performance. I don’t need a “new” design or three useless cameras.

It’s cheaper to buy a Canon or Nikon camera than pay the ridiculous iPhone price just because “new cameras”.

I own a X model, and I will not buy the new one. I will wait for a SE with 1 camera.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby keenmaster486 » 2019-9-18 @ 16:37

bfcastello wrote:Oi, I, one of these so called “people”, I don’t want that. I just want better batery life and better processor performance. I don’t need a “new” design or three useless cameras.

I am also one of these people.

The processor performance is good enough for me though. When I tap on something, it comes up and starts working within half a second or less. I would never notice more performance. I guess this also has to do with storage performance.

What I want is more battery life. Period. End of story. Everything else is fine; we've reached the point of diminishing returns. I'll be having my SE's battery replaced fairly soon here, as it is on its last legs. That should give me a few more years with the phone, hopefully.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby Kerr Avon » 2019-9-18 @ 21:11

ZellSF wrote:
Kerr Avon wrote:I think for most people, all they want in a new phone is basically the same phone as the one they have now, but with much better battery life, and maybe, but not a deal-breaker, more data storage capacity. For a reasonable price.

Not a slightly redesigned case or shape, not a load of new apps and programs that they'll never use, not a higher number in the phone's model description, not even a higher resolution screen. Just something that doesn't require charging every day or three.



Uh, there's a reason most manufacturers focus on improving the camera and redesigning the phone. That's what people want. Not just better battery life.


So why is it that offhand I can't recall even one of my mates saying that they'd bought a new phone because it had a better camera, or that the new phone had been redesigned? Yes, it's certainly possible that some did and either they didn't mention it to me, or they did but I've forgotten, but the truth is that most people don't like change unless it's a change that's also an improvement of some sort, and most people have been happy with the standard of phone cameras for well over a decade now (as long as their photos look good on their facebook page, that makes most people happy) and also their mobile phones' other areas of performance too, aside from battery life and maybe the phone's storage.

And maybe people with money to burn and so insecure that they need to impress people with a new, expensive phone, would buy a phone simply because it was redesigned, but that's certainly not true of most people (and most people who would want to do that probably couldn't easily afford it anyway).

Most people are not technically-minded, don't use 99% of the phone's functions anyway, and when they do get a new phone, they hate having to learn how to find or use the controls or settings to do the same job as they they did almost by muscle memory on their older phone. And it seems very common for people to complain about having to charge their phone every day/every third day/whatever, because it's an inconvenience and people don't like to be inconvenienced.

And I know if I could magically wish for one improvement to my phone, then without hesitation I'd choose a longer battery life. Not a better camera, or a somehow prettier shape, or a smaller or larger physical size, just not having to remember to charge the thing every two or three days.
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Re: NEW iPhones

Postby ZellSF » 2019-9-19 @ 12:28

Kerr Avon wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
Kerr Avon wrote:I think for most people, all they want in a new phone is basically the same phone as the one they have now, but with much better battery life, and maybe, but not a deal-breaker, more data storage capacity. For a reasonable price.

Not a slightly redesigned case or shape, not a load of new apps and programs that they'll never use, not a higher number in the phone's model description, not even a higher resolution screen. Just something that doesn't require charging every day or three.



Uh, there's a reason most manufacturers focus on improving the camera and redesigning the phone. That's what people want. Not just better battery life.


So why is it that offhand I can't recall even one of my mates saying that they'd bought a new phone because it had a better camera, or that the new phone had been redesigned? Yes, it's certainly possible that some did and either they didn't mention it to me, or they did but I've forgotten, but the truth is that most people don't like change unless it's a change that's also an improvement of some sort, and most people have been happy with the standard of phone cameras for well over a decade now (as long as their photos look good on their facebook page, that makes most people happy) and also their mobile phones' other areas of performance too, aside from battery life and maybe the phone's storage.

And maybe people with money to burn and so insecure that they need to impress people with a new, expensive phone, would buy a phone simply because it was redesigned, but that's certainly not true of most people (and most people who would want to do that probably couldn't easily afford it anyway).

Most people are not technically-minded, don't use 99% of the phone's functions anyway, and when they do get a new phone, they hate having to learn how to find or use the controls or settings to do the same job as they they did almost by muscle memory on their older phone. And it seems very common for people to complain about having to charge their phone every day/every third day/whatever, because it's an inconvenience and people don't like to be inconvenienced.

And I know if I could magically wish for one improvement to my phone, then without hesitation I'd choose a longer battery life. Not a better camera, or a somehow prettier shape, or a smaller or larger physical size, just not having to remember to charge the thing every two or three days.

Your group of acquaintances is not "most people" and neither is the very narrow sample that is this forum.

The people who have the most data on what people use their phones for and what they want for their phone are focusing on cameras and design. That tells me what most people want.
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