Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

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Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby twiz11 » 2019-9-14 @ 13:35

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

Hi all,

I am thinking about how Steam could be a cult. We refuse to believe in any other platform like Epic Games Store, due to our Sunk Cost fallacy of we believe in steam, if we turn our back on it, look how much we sunk into it. I've accumulated at least 1000 games i cannot do anything with. I cannot sell it or trade it because it is just licenses. People would call me out on it, saying I am a hypocrite. If I don't like it I can go use another platform. The problem is I've sunk a lot of money in steam that I can't just walk away from and would do anything to see steam succeed, which is kinda like a cult... I guess when you call the founder or CEO of steam "Lord GabeN", equating him to a higher power, it makes sense. I would like your feedback.

P.S - I am sorry about the flurry of nonsense of topics I posted, I guess its because I have no filter and just post whatever I am thinking about at the time. Its hard to get into topics because usually I keep it simply stupid...
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby BeginnerGuy » 2019-9-14 @ 14:51

Most people prefer their library in one place. Having to deal with multiple launchers is annoying. Especially since it's all DRM and the launcher has to be running, so desktop game shortcuts are still forcing yet another program to run. I'm willing to bet many of the people boycotting EGS (Is this about borderlands 3? That game has everybody teething) really just don't want to start a new collection elsewhere. They're mad about the EGS exclusive but would not care or even consider it if the pc release was exclusive to steam because of it. It is definitely a form of vendor lock-in.

The way I see it if it isn't a drm free GOG game, it's just a rental. I don't really care where it comes from at that point and generally will only buy deep discount. The one defense I can give steam is that it's a decent social network with profiles, marketplace, activity feeds, workshop, achievements, etc. Epic games software is absolute garbage in comparison.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby Srandista » 2019-9-14 @ 19:56

Steam is here for more then 15 years. Many have extensive library on it (including myself). And I really don't like to have dozen of launchers running on my PC. Therefore, there are few of them, which I unequivocally ignore and will not use no matter what. And no exclusive title will persuade me to do otherwise. Also I don't like some shady practices, which some of those stores are using... The lack of features is really just tip of an iceberg in this matter.

Anyway, regarding not being able to resell your purchases... Honestly, you're agreeing with it by using Steam (or any other store for that matter), because you agreed with their user agreements, where this is clearly stated. So in this case, you really can't blame the store because of this, only you...
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby maxtherabbit » 2019-9-14 @ 20:04

Half life 2 was the first and last steam game I've ever owned
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby duga3 » 2019-9-14 @ 21:34

Just walk away OP, you can do it! There is plenty of DRM-free games if you look around and you will (probably) get to keep playing the Steam games you have already purchased.

Requiring Steam account just to run single-player of Half Life 2 in 2004 was a bold move indeed. Nobody really knew what we were getting into back then.. Does that sentence sound familiar?

These days they pump you via "purchases" (which are really just glorified rentals) and after everyone buys everything and has their own massive backlog so there is nothing to sell anymore, then they will transition into a subscription model, ideally with some downsides if you cancel (lost saves, profiles, ...?) so you will be more motivated to pay every month in order to play that one new game you are mildly interested in.

Also remember that you can probably keep playing the games you have purchased, but Steam is technically allowed to transfer everything else like your profiles/achievements/friends/workshop/etc behind a subscription at any time.

By then all better AAA games will be available only exclusively through similar subscriptions from Microsoft and Sony (which you will be able to stream to your PCs and mobile devices too) so Steam becomes a place for the remaining bad/average/non-exclusive games.

In the end, most games will become stream-only which is the perfect DRM because you cannot record an interactive game the same way you would pirate a movie so they have the absolute control over the distribution.

The push is already happening, have you seen this for example? Starts in just 5 days but thankfully looks more like a proof of concept and a nab at Nintendo Switch more than anything.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby DosFreak » 2019-9-14 @ 22:32

If you use a service like Steam but are too lazy to research the DRM before you buy and/or remove the DRM requirements yourself after purchase and then complain when you can't play "your" games then I know this is an unpopular opinion but you only have yourself to blame.

GOG Galaxy 2.0 is currently in beta and is supposed to provide one interface to all the game launchers. I'll wait until it's final before checking it out but I'm not that interested in it because I dislike layers of troubleshooting.

Before I purchase a game I do the DRM research (They don't make it easy), if the DRM cannot be removed I don't buy. If it can be removed but it's Denuvo I still don't buy. Anything else I buy and then immediately crack it and I don't have to worry about anything else getting in the way or removing my access.

Last two biggest games without DRM were suprisingly Rage 2 and Control which was refreshing. Rage 2 was underwhelming but worth playing, Control is worth it. Rage 2 purchased via Bethesda launcher and Control via Epic. Epic seems to be pretty good about offering alot of DRM free games and allowing to bypass the Epic launcher via a command-line switch although they unfortunately have Denuvo games too.

Let's say tomorrow all new games switch to online subscription and streaming based. There are a massive amount of games out there. IIRC, DOS games alone are somewhere around 7,000+ games. That's alot of games. Next all of the arcade and console games emulated and all of the Windows PC games up until the current day. Unless people have somehow played all of those games there really is nothing to worry about. If/when that happens then I'll mostly be playing all of those games and then rarely playing a free online game if I have to but they won't be getting any money, ad views, tracking, etc from me.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby twiz11 » 2019-9-14 @ 22:52

I need to see a counselor
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby Errius » 2019-9-14 @ 23:16

The only Steam games I have are the big-box Half-Life and expansions I added the codes for. (I wish I hadn't because now I can't sell the originals.) And TF2.

(No, I've never played HL2 or Portal. Someday...)
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby twiz11 » 2019-9-15 @ 01:23

You can sell the originals... I mean offline install works fine
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby kolderman » 2019-9-15 @ 01:31

Just a game hoard I will never get through to me. I use it but don't care for it.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby dr_st » 2019-9-15 @ 06:27

I never bought a single Steam game and don't think I ever will. I never play online multiplayer, so it's not a problem for me. If I think I want a legal copy of a game, I buy some physical box somewhere just for the sake of putting it on the shelf, and then just play the cracked DRM-stripped version offline.

I do have an account on GoG, and bought a few games from them. Including games I legally own with physical copies and games that I have played the crap out of on my pirated copies back in the nineties. I did so because I want to support GoG in what they do, and it seemed like the most natural way to give them money.

twiz11 wrote:P.S - I am sorry about the flurry of nonsense of topics I posted, I guess its because I have no filter and just post whatever I am thinking about at the time. Its hard to get into topics because usually I keep it simply stupid...

No need to feel sorry, your topics are all legitimate even if sometimes they don't make sense (as I had pointed out before). Just a side-observation: for a person who "has no filter" (as you define yourself), you show a great deal of self-awareness, and an open mind for absorbing new information. And some of your threads spawn into interesting discussions, which you participate in (unlike trolls who bait and run). I see no problem at all. :)
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby Shagittarius » 2019-9-15 @ 07:42

Steam is a cult, and when they die they will take all your games with them.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby Errius » 2019-9-16 @ 04:42

Is it possible to tell if a particular game key has been added to a Steam account without actually doing so?

I have a copy of Half-Life: Generations that I got on eBay in 2010, and which I'd like to resell, but I don't know if the code has been redeemed.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby twiz11 » 2019-9-16 @ 10:25

Errius wrote:Is it possible to tell if a particular game key has been added to a Steam account without actually doing so?

I have a copy of Half-Life: Generations that I got on eBay in 2010, and which I'd like to resell, but I don't know if the code has been redeemed.


Not really as soon as you submit the code it's redeemed unlike gog redeems where you can see first if it's good without redeeming it
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby The Serpent Rider » 2019-9-16 @ 10:49

You can check it with banned account actually.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby DosFreak » 2019-9-20 @ 00:00

Usually when you get the courts involved in computer issues it doesn't turn out well due to not understanding the issues involved. I can imagine worse or equal DRM if digital stores were forced to allow this.
Something like:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ ... he-founder

Probably easier for them to switch to streaming and/or subscriptions at this point and not have to worry about the courts.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby Srandista » 2019-9-20 @ 07:37

Wtf is this? How can even company get sued for user agreements contract, if it doesn't violate basic human rights (and no, reselling your games isn't one of those)? It's user own will to act according user agreements, and if they don't like it, they're totally able to not use that product... As DosFreak mentioned it, with this kind of atmosphere, it would honestly be better for them to switch to streaming, and that's something which scares the shit out of me. I really hope, that at least GOG would refuse to go those route for at long as possible, because otherwise, I'll probably stop playing new games...
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby The Serpent Rider » 2019-9-20 @ 15:59

It's user own will to act according user agreements, and if they don't like it

Law > EULA. Of course if the law explicitly states that you can sell your copy, but it usually do.
Any claims that you don't own the games you bought in Steam are also false: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/95 ... propaganda

it would honestly be better for them to switch to streaming

And revoke game/software ownership of their giant userbase? Fat chance.
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Re: Steam could be a cult via Vendor Lock-In

Postby Dominus » 2019-9-20 @ 16:36

Srandista wrote:Wtf is this? How can even company get sued for user agreements contract, if it doesn't violate basic human rights (and no, reselling your games isn't one of those)? It's user own will to act according user agreements, and if they don't like it, they're totally able to not use that product... As DosFreak mentioned it, with this kind of atmosphere, it would honestly be better for them to switch to streaming, and that's something which scares the shit out of me. I really hope, that at least GOG would refuse to go those route for at long as possible, because otherwise, I'll probably stop playing new games...

Many countries void contracts that go against their laws. You CAN sign a contract that allows another to kill and eat you but the contract will not hold up in many countries' court ;)
(And no, I'm not comparing Steam license to that, I've just selected a ridiculous example)
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