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First post, by captain_koloth

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I’ve been wondering whether to build a dedicated XP machine. Putting aside the merits of doing that just for he fun of the hardware build, first I’m trying to decide; is there any reason to build one purely for compatibility? I’ve been trying to find XP games that won’t run on Win 10 (at least with a bit of patching and such) but so far have been coming up empt. Win 9x era games genuinely do have major compatibility issues on many occasions, but I’m getting the sense that purely for compatibility, that’s not the case for XP and there isn’t really a reason to do such a build other than the pleasure of it (which is legitimate and which I may do anyway). In fact, I struggle to identify a single XP game that can’t be made to work on 10, perhaps with a little bit of effort. Agree/disagree? Opine!

Reply 1 of 12, by The Serpent Rider

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XP games = EAX support via DirectSound. Yes, you can use Creative Alchemy wrapper, but it's not perfect.
Even if a particular game can run under Windows 10, it could be very unstable.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 2 of 12, by appiah4

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There's EAX. Then there are those games that were never designed to run on multithreaded processors. Then there is the pretty sorry state of DX9 support in modern graphics hardware.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 3 of 12, by ZellSF

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You should just stop spending time on this and play games. When you find one that won't run on Windows 10, just build a XP box then. Pointless worrying about things that might not be a problem.

But no, I don't think you'll find one. I play a lot of old PC games and haven't found a single one I want to play that I can't somehow get working in Windows 10.

Reply 4 of 12, by captain_koloth

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ZellSF wrote:

You should just stop spending time on this and play games. When you find one that won't run on Windows 10, just build a XP box then. Pointless worrying about things that might not be a problem.

But no, I don't think you'll find one. I play a lot of old PC games and haven't found a single one I want to play that I can't somehow get working in Windows 10.

I’m exploring the question as a thought experiment that I’m interested in rather than sitting in front of my computer choosing not to play games because I’m worried about this.

Reply 5 of 12, by captain_koloth

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appiah4 wrote:

There's EAX. Then there are those games that were never designed to run on multithreaded processors. Then there is the pretty sorry state of DX9 support in modern graphics hardware.

Can you think of any examples of the latter two?

Reply 6 of 12, by Almoststew1990

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To be honest I struggle to recommend XP over Windows 7 32bit. 7 is so much easier to use day-to-day. The super powerful builds people do for XP are still plenty fast enough for Windows 7! Heck, my C2D 8500 3.1GHz and 3GB DDR2 RAM is just fine in Windows 7 for light browsing for patches and whatnot to go with 2000-2009 gaming.

For me the main things I need are 32bit and a DVD drive. I have a Audigy 2 ZS and yes EAX is nice to have but it is not deal breaking to not have it. I think it is 50/50 whether the convenience of W7 outweighs the EAX.

Ryzen 3700X | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | AMD 6800XT | 2Tb NVME SSD | Windows 10
AMD DX2-80 | 16MB RAM | STB LIghtspeed 128 | AWE32 CT3910
I have a vacancy for a main Windows 98 PC

Reply 8 of 12, by DosFreak

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You can get games working on a newer OS but you'll have to jump through hoops and they may have other issues. If you don't have any games with issues or are fine with the glitches then there is no need for an XP machine.

I haven't done much with my pc game compatibility list for the past couple of years so I've recently started to put together a build for Windows 9x through Windows 10 compatibility testing. Still to do: processor and heatsink upgrade, M.2 SSD to SATA , USB3 w/ front USB panel and a Quadro FX 1300 PCIe that I'll be comparing against my FX 5200 PCI.

So far:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.40GHZ
Motherboard: Gigabyte X38-DQ6
Memory: 16GB DDR2 F2-6400CL5D-8GBPQ @ 800Mhz
GPU 1: Zotac Geforce GTX 980 Ti 6GB AMP! Extreme GDDR5 ZT-90507-10B Video Card GPU
GPU 2: GeForce FX 5200 128MB v45.23 VGA
NIC: Realtek RTL8111 PCI-E Gigabit
Audio: Audigy 2 Platinum 6.1 SB0240
Monitor Dell U2410 1920x1200
DVD 1: Bluray HL-DT-ST GGC-H20L
DVD 2: Plextor DVD-R PX-760A
SSD: Crucial M500
Case: CoolerMaster ATC-110
PSU: Corsair RM850x

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Make your games work offline

Reply 9 of 12, by mothergoose729

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I tried out about 100 games from the XP era on windows 10 and I got all but maybe 5 of them working, with probably 85% of them working pretty much perfectly.

Getting EAX back through software emulation is a giant pain. Even though I had the original discs, every game needed a no CD crack because none of the DRM works anymore. Many games require patches and tweaks in order to start at all. I ran into issues where some games would only work in windowed mode, and others only in full screen. Some needed frame limiters to not crash. Some would not work with AA or something. Serious Sam had weird graphical glitches in openGL, and D3D would run shockingly slow given my hardware. A few games required dgvoodoo 2 or nglide in order to get working. Even after all of that, some would refuse to work, leaving my last option to run XP in a virtual machine.

It was a pretty lengthy process of googling and testing to get each one up and running. I know that some of the games, partially from the no cd cracks I had to use, would crash or not complete the final level. This was pretty common to include intentionally in cracks back in the day "cuz pay for it" and "try before you buy *wink* *wink* " sentiments were common among pirates in the mid 2000's.

Windows 7 32bit supports disc DRM and some depreciated graphics libraries, but not by default. They have to be explicitly enabled. Windows 10 has removed support for a lot of stuff and relies heavily on the compatibility layer. For example, there is no native support for direct X 8.1 or later or direct draw, and while the compatibility layer works pretty well (all things considered), you can run into glitches and lots of added impact lag. GoG releases fix a lot of issues and are a great shortcut, but that often means buying a game you already paid for. GoG also doesn't have every game, so sometimes that isn't an option.

Sometimes, even fixes for old games won't work on later releases for windows. There are quite a few community patches I tried that apparently worked in windows 7 but would not work at all in my windows 10 machine. Worse yet, microsoft will break support with legacy software through update with no warning. The creator's update in 2018 I think is one example.

Here is a spreadsheet I created for myself just to keep notes on what I have done. It might give you an idea of what to expect.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oSWRc … dit?usp=sharing

I have more XP games in my collection, but I lost interest in the project after 100 games.

Reply 10 of 12, by BeginnerGuy

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Pretty much what Dosfreak posted is about the "XP" rig I would suggest if you want to cover a huge timespan without hoarding computers. I haven't tried a PCI video card and going back into DOS and 9x stuff on it though. I also have an LGA775 rig running a xeon e5450 @ 4ghz w/ 8GB DDR2 800 and GTX 480 w/ X-fi Fatality & SB Extigy external. It's set up with a triple boot configuration (Windows XP 32-bit, Windows 7 64-bit, Debian 9).. Not time period accurate but it covers well over 10 years for me. I just finished the original Modern Warfare and it ran very nicely on a 144hz monitor for example.

It's not very often I boot into XP. Usually just to work on a project in Visual C++ 6.0 OR play a game with EAX on my Sound Blaster Extigy (no 64 bit drivers ever made for that).. Some games that come to mind are Civilization IV, Call of Duty 1 & 2, Doom 3, few more.. EAX isn't exactly amazing either, in most games it just sounds like reverb cranked to 11.

Browsing and working on Win 7 and linux is smooth as butter, still runs and feels like a modern system when paired with an SSD and high refresh monitor.

Point being you can still kind of mesh modern and XP into the same box.

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Reply 11 of 12, by Almoststew1990

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

There's not much time left for Win7.

Yes.

I mean it should be used as a "retro" OS for playing 2000s games instead of XP as it is more convenient. I don't mean it should be a modern day OS to do your online banking with etc!

Ryzen 3700X | 16GB 3600MHz RAM | AMD 6800XT | 2Tb NVME SSD | Windows 10
AMD DX2-80 | 16MB RAM | STB LIghtspeed 128 | AWE32 CT3910
I have a vacancy for a main Windows 98 PC