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Reply 381 of 684, by spiroyster

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Starting to get slightly annoyed at the sense of entitlement some posters are exhibiting here...

Let me put something into perspective... we are all visitors here to a privately owned, free to us (no adverts plastered over the place) forum which someone pays for and maintains. tbh Whatever the owners choose to have as a theme is entirely up to them. It's gracious enough that they are open to feedback, let alone provided user customisable themes (and then there's the other thread which outlines how ppl can play with their own css styling). So it's not like you are forced to keep with this style.

Do people even remember what the old forum looked like... it's not like that wasn't on the blue-end of the spectrum... yet I don't remember many complaining about it then? Fine time to grow an opinion. It's really quite alright to say "I don't like the colour/theme", nothing wrong with having an opionion, but some of the other reasons ... seriously?

A few little teething problems , nothing major which doesn't appear to get fixed in due course. This site has worked on all of my computers, all of my screens IPS, LED and LCD... (not tried retro ones, but then again not expecting it to work on them anyway) and all of my tablets/phones ... chrome, firefox, edge... edge renders slightly differently but still perfectly usable. I find it quite amusing what some people must be doing to their poor computers/browsers to get the experience they are getting. Either they are doing something wrong or I am... I mean snover is obviously well versed in web development, and most developers worth their salt test stuff... I don't think snover made a theme that doesn't work for most people, yet just so happens to work for a few?

To be quite frank, if people don't like the new site perhaps they should vote with their feet, as I feel if they are that offended by it, I doubt many of them could add constructive value to many of the conversations that happen here anyway. Given this forum has been somewhat modernised, it's quite questionable how some function with the rest of the internet in 2020 (or even the last 5+ years) since this site seems to cause them so much pain and suffering?

There have been some quite fanciful reasons posters in this thread have attempted to perpetrate in relation to the choice of colours, which may hoodwink some, but are quite obviously their sensationalist way of saying... "I don't like the colour" ... but this is a new one:

Kisai wrote on 2020-01-07, 07:28:

However the entire color theme feels like the designer might be colorblind.
https://www.toptal.com/designers/colorfilter? … ess_type=protan

Care to elaborate? Since the colour appears to render perfectly fine for me (I pass all the Ishihara tests), whether I like the colour or not is a subjective matter, not an eye condition... are you saying I'm colour blind also?

Reply 382 of 684, by hwh

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schmatzler wrote on 2020-01-04, 10:24:
But guess what: The world doesn't stop spinning just because you want technologies back that are clearly out-of-style in the yea […]
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hwh wrote on 2020-01-04, 03:08:

Tell you what. Here's an "old skool" opinion.

But guess what: The world doesn't stop spinning just because you want technologies back that are clearly out-of-style in the year 2020.

Nobody uses tables anymore to do webdesign - what comes next, you'd like to have frames and flash animations back?
Also: Nobody uses only text labels anymore in 2020. We have smartphones and tablets now and these don't have a lot of space, so we need to use this space in the best possible way.
It's not like the pictograms and icons used here change every second - even if you don't get them, you'll understand what they mean pretty quickly - you can also hover on all of them and a text will pop up that tells you what the button is doing.

I also think that if you actively change your browser settings to unsmooth fonts and make them more blocky, it's your own problem if some websites look worse after that. I can't even think of a site I regularly use that would work well with that.

The amount of "This website is shit" posts is really annoying, btw. I thought we were all a bunch of adults here - clearly not. This is worse than the YouTube and Facebook comment sections!

Fantastic. I have someone calling me a Luddite on VOGONS.

But that's not it. I never implied the world or this site revolves around me (no idea where that came from, great strawman). And I don't want iframes and flash. That's not next. What was next was you attacking me for whatever reason. It's a question of design. Not what year it is. I HATE pictograms and I don't need your opinion on what year I'm living in for thinking so. If you like them, you can voice that opinion too without mocking me.

As I said in my post, I believe the proper implementation is a mobile version, not to create a lowest common denominator design that is, in my view, a downgrade of a standard forum template.

You need not reply.

Reply 383 of 684, by appiah4

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-01-07, 01:31:

Bug report.

User Computer: iPad

You don't say.. 😁

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 384 of 684, by Dominus

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WinSxS wrote on 2020-01-07, 00:43:

Bad, bad changes. Very uncomfortable, I can't find now what I want. Are we retro forum, or not?

Actually yes and no. VOGONS stands for "ver old games on new systems". The retro threads came much later. And while they are certainly welcome, it's not the main goal of the forum.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox

Reply 385 of 684, by Bruninho

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hwh wrote on 2020-01-07, 10:09:
Fantastic. I have someone calling me a Luddite on VOGONS. […]
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schmatzler wrote on 2020-01-04, 10:24:
But guess what: The world doesn't stop spinning just because you want technologies back that are clearly out-of-style in the yea […]
Show full quote
hwh wrote on 2020-01-04, 03:08:

Tell you what. Here's an "old skool" opinion.

But guess what: The world doesn't stop spinning just because you want technologies back that are clearly out-of-style in the year 2020.

Nobody uses tables anymore to do webdesign - what comes next, you'd like to have frames and flash animations back?
Also: Nobody uses only text labels anymore in 2020. We have smartphones and tablets now and these don't have a lot of space, so we need to use this space in the best possible way.
It's not like the pictograms and icons used here change every second - even if you don't get them, you'll understand what they mean pretty quickly - you can also hover on all of them and a text will pop up that tells you what the button is doing.

I also think that if you actively change your browser settings to unsmooth fonts and make them more blocky, it's your own problem if some websites look worse after that. I can't even think of a site I regularly use that would work well with that.

The amount of "This website is shit" posts is really annoying, btw. I thought we were all a bunch of adults here - clearly not. This is worse than the YouTube and Facebook comment sections!

Fantastic. I have someone calling me a Luddite on VOGONS.

But that's not it. I never implied the world or this site revolves around me (no idea where that came from, great strawman). And I don't want iframes and flash. That's not next. What was next was you attacking me for whatever reason. It's a question of design. Not what year it is. I HATE pictograms and I don't need your opinion on what year I'm living in for thinking so. If you like them, you can voice that opinion too without mocking me.

As I said in my post, I believe the proper implementation is a mobile version, not to create a lowest common denominator design that is, in my view, a downgrade of a standard forum template.

You need not reply.

I’m sorry to have bad news for you, but these pictograms are here to stay since five years ago.

They work for both mobile and desktop layouts, you probably want to go back to the web 1.0, running IE3 without style sheets...

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 386 of 684, by demon_firefox

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First of all kudos to the administration team for updating the bulletin board software and developing a new theme. As a web developer I know the effort that is necessary to pull off big updates and I really appreciate your work.

The new theme doesn't seem to appeal to everyone and that's perfectly fine. Personally, I think that the color theme is a little big too saturated and might be taxing on the eyes.

I just played a little big with the colors and mainly changed the background to a dark gray tone that is somewhat more releaxed. If you're interested, I create a userstyle that can be applied using the Stylus browser addon (Firefox, Chrome). You can grab it here: https://userstyles.org/styles/178912/vogons-o … grey-background

Screenshot

178912_after.png?r=1578396193

Feel free to leave some feedback.

kind regards,
demon_firefox

Reply 387 of 684, by canthearu

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My 2 big problems with the new layout are:

a) Hard to separate read threads from unread threads. It was really clear on the old theme which threads you read and which ones are unread. Maybe just some more time to get used this and I'll probably be OK, although, I would be pleased with further adjustments to the theme to make it clearer.

b) I can't choose the page to go to on a particular thread from my user post page or from any of the forum index pages. Have to open the thread then manually select what page I want. I like to jump to the 2nd or 3rd last page of the longer threads so I can pickup the context and details of the current conversation on a thread, and it is very cumbersome to do this on the new board, whereas really easy on the old board.

I'm sorry, but with the above problems, I too am finding myself less drawn to spending time here. It is just HARD to enjoy this site as it is. I hope the admins can improve this. I don't want to be a pain in the butt, because I can appreciate the work that went into the upgrade and redesign, but I also want to able to navigate this place at least as well as I used to.

Reply 388 of 684, by schmatzler

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hwh wrote on 2020-01-07, 10:09:

As I said in my post, I believe the proper implementation is a mobile version, not to create a lowest common denominator design that is, in my view, a downgrade of a standard forum template.

That's really not a good idea. Creating two different websites means two different codebases that need to be managed and updated.
Why put so much work into this - just because you hate pictograms? (which is not a valid reason to remove them anyway)

I think the point I made in my original post - being that you like how the web has been and unwilling to adjust to current developments - still stands.

Reply 389 of 684, by robertmo

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canthearu wrote on 2020-01-07, 14:57:

b) I can't choose the page to go to on a particular thread from my user post page or from any of the forum index pages. Have to open the thread then manually select what page I want. I like to jump to the 2nd or 3rd last page of the longer threads so I can pickup the context and details of the current conversation on a thread, and it is very cumbersome to do this on the new board, whereas really easy on the old board.

It's best to start reading the first post first

Reply 390 of 684, by WinSxS

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Dominus wrote on 2020-01-07, 10:53:
WinSxS wrote on 2020-01-07, 00:43:

Bad, bad changes. Very uncomfortable, I can't find now what I want. Are we retro forum, or not?

Actually yes and no. VOGONS stands for "ver old games on new systems". The retro threads came much later. And while they are certainly welcome, it's not the main goal of the forum.

Mental shortcut. I mean exactly it all, i.a. old games and old rigs, so older-looking forum can be better related to topics.

Bad english? Don't mind, i'm still learning
Main PC: CLICK
Retro PC: CLICK

Reply 391 of 684, by bjwil1991

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I don't mind the new design and security feature (2FA), but, the color was troublesome on the threads. After changing it, I started to get used to it.

Discord: https://discord.gg/U5dJw7x
Systems from C64 to FX-6300.

Reply 392 of 684, by VileR

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Dominus wrote on 2020-01-07, 10:53:

Actually yes and no. VOGONS stands for "ver old games on new systems".

That reminds me: in the previous design the acronym was explained, over the logo if not elsewhere.
But after the update, the "Very Old Games On New Systems" tagline doesn't exist anywhere, as far as I can see... so newcomers (who are mostly here for retro systems) are only going to be more confused about what VOGONS stands for. 😉

web  /   blog   /   tube

Reply 394 of 684, by canthearu

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robertmo wrote on 2020-01-07, 16:40:
canthearu wrote on 2020-01-07, 14:57:

b) I can't choose the page to go to on a particular thread from my user post page or from any of the forum index pages. Have to open the thread then manually select what page I want. I like to jump to the 2nd or 3rd last page of the longer threads so I can pickup the context and details of the current conversation on a thread, and it is very cumbersome to do this on the new board, whereas really easy on the old board.

It's best to start reading the first post first

Not if the thread is 650 pages long and 10 years old, like the "what retro hardware did you buy today"

Or it is are some new posts on a thread I read 6 months ago and I want to jump in a couple of pages from the end to refresh myself on the content to see the new stuff that is being said.

Another thing I miss about not being able to jump straight to a page is that it gave a very easy and quick indication of the length of the thread, the amount of content I have to check. Of course the post counter still exists, but now I have to spend more time thinking and doing the maths in my head to work it out.

Reply 396 of 684, by Malik

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Honestly saying, I liked the older design...maybe because I got used to it for the past 15 years.

But I also feel this new design is also good. I tried reverting back to "old skool" theme, but the purple looks too bright and the font color is not the same, so I reverted back to normal theme.

One good thing is that it's now phone friendly to read and navigate. Very clear and actually pleasing to use on the phone like how I am typing now.

If the "old skool" theme colors matched the former theme, I think it would be best of both worlds for me.

Otherwise, I think this new change is a welcome improvement, especially for modern devices.

EDIT:

P.S. maybe the dark mode reader plugin for my android Firefox is messing up the old skool colors.
Checked again after disabling it, now seems better.

5476332566_7480a12517_t.jpgSB Dos Drivers

Reply 397 of 684, by robertmo

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canthearu wrote on 2020-01-07, 23:33:
Not if the thread is 650 pages long and 10 years old, like the "what retro hardware did you buy today" […]
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robertmo wrote on 2020-01-07, 16:40:
canthearu wrote on 2020-01-07, 14:57:

b) I can't choose the page to go to on a particular thread from my user post page or from any of the forum index pages. Have to open the thread then manually select what page I want. I like to jump to the 2nd or 3rd last page of the longer threads so I can pickup the context and details of the current conversation on a thread, and it is very cumbersome to do this on the new board, whereas really easy on the old board.

It's best to start reading the first post first

Not if the thread is 650 pages long and 10 years old, like the "what retro hardware did you buy today"

Or it is are some new posts on a thread I read 6 months ago and I want to jump in a couple of pages from the end to refresh myself on the content to see the new stuff that is being said.

Another thing I miss about not being able to jump straight to a page is that it gave a very easy and quick indication of the length of the thread, the amount of content I have to check. Of course the post counter still exists, but now I have to spend more time thinking and doing the maths in my head to work it out.

it's always good to read first post as it may contain something important

You got "view first unread post" button that moves you to were you stopped reading even 6 months ago. you can read just one page and continue the next day or next week. The unread posts mark won't be wiped out on next pages. If you click on a page instead, unread posts mark is wiped out on previous pages and try to find where you stopped reading now, after 6 months, when the thread is 650 pages long.

Reply 398 of 684, by jamesp15

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Just a note, not all the "complaints" are because of dislike of the redesign.. there are legitimate concerns as well WRT eyestrain and headaches, I am not the only one who had issues with that.

I couldnt look at the site for more than about 2 minutes before I was on the verge of a migraine.. the old school color scheme helped a lot with that for me.

I didnt care for the old site theme but between it and this new one I would take the old one but thats just me. There is no need to ridicule people for preferences, all it does is drives users away.

Reply 399 of 684, by hwh

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bfcastello wrote on 2020-01-07, 10:57:

I’m sorry to have bad news for you, but these pictograms are here to stay since five years ago.

They work for both mobile and desktop layouts, you probably want to go back to the web 1.0, running IE3 without style sheets...

Was that necessary?

...

This is an example of an excellent forum layout.

schmatzler wrote on 2020-01-07, 15:52:
That's really not a good idea. Creating two different websites means two different codebases that need to be managed and updated […]
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hwh wrote on 2020-01-07, 10:09:

As I said in my post, I believe the proper implementation is a mobile version, not to create a lowest common denominator design that is, in my view, a downgrade of a standard forum template.

That's really not a good idea. Creating two different websites means two different codebases that need to be managed and updated.
Why put so much work into this - just because you hate pictograms? (which is not a valid reason to remove them anyway)

I think the point I made in my original post - being that you like how the web has been and unwilling to adjust to current developments - still stands.

First, your opinion on my opinion on pictograms is not constructive feedback. Second, it's not just because I hate pictograms. That was the example which was given in replies on this issue. I listed several requests, and, however little you seem to think of them, those were the issues that came to my mind. Maybe I didn't express it well. So you're really taking it out of context to say it's "just because I hate pictograms."

My comments aren't meant to be a cost-benefit analysis. I don't think you'll be doing the work, nor do I think my suggestions will be implemented. It was a wish list. And your point about the web is 100% correct; I don't like today's design, I find it highly objectionable and faulty, but the most I can do is speak up when we have a topic like this one.