I always thought it's kind of weird when Apple uses standard connectors from the Windows world in their systems but you cannot add parts from that world into their machines.
I still remember those VGA cards that needed a specific Apple BIOS flashed before they worked.

Seems like an artificial lockout to me. Which is just unneccessary.

Video cards with a PC specific BIOS make sense that they don't work with a Mac, because those never had a PC BIOS. It's more weird that the T2 locks out non Apple SSDs. That has nothing to do with security and all to do with vendor lock-in. Not that Apple is alone in that regard. Look at IBM proprietary stuff back in the day etc...
However I would fathom that none of us are target audience for a Mac Pro. I never was the audience for an SGI or Sun workstation either. So there's that. I will stick to my 2013 iMac. 😀

Flashing Mac parts with a PC-compatible BIOS and vice-versa has been a thing for decades, I think.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-01-07, 15:06:

I would like to comment on all these “Youtuber’s” [...] Do these people realize how dumb they make themselves look?

As long as they get views/likes/subs, I don't think they care.

schmatzler wrote on 2020-01-07, 15:57:

I always thought it's kind of weird when Apple uses standard connectors from the Windows world in their systems but you cannot add parts from that world into their machines.
I still remember those VGA cards that needed a specific Apple BIOS flashed before they worked.

Seems like an artificial lockout to me. Which is just unneccessary.

Yeah, it is. But Apple wants a very controlled system. They don't want to deal with the headache of trying to support stuff they haven't specifically certified. They also want to be able to specify the price on anything that will work with their systems. Can't have 3rd parties coming in and undercutting what they sell at their stores now can they?

That being said, some PC OEMs do that with their laptops as well.. locking their BIOS to only work with certain video cards, wireless cards, etc.

Apple controls the firmware and drivers ( kexts ) on there computers.
Without the correct firmware and kexts unsupported hardware could cause havoc on the computer.
Like CPU throttling, Fans spinning on high, over heating, etc....

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-01-07, 18:36:

Apple controls the firmware and drivers ( kexts ) on there computers.
Without the correct firmware and kexts unsupported hardware could cause havoc on the computer.
Like CPU throttling, Fans spinning on high, over heating, etc....

Apple's hardware is nothing special. It is just run-of-the-mill PC hardware. OSX is also just a custom version of Linux. They just choose to support a very limited range of hardware.

With the Hackintosh scene, it is less of an issue, but you still have to make sure you use hardware that is either natively supported or has patches to make it work.

root42 wrote on 2020-01-07, 16:09:

Video cards with a PC specific BIOS make sense that they don't work with a Mac, because those never had a PC BIOS.

That's true. Though the weird thing is, that Mac OS X (on PowerPC platform, at least) can *sometimes* use a VGA card via VESA BIOS.
Un-accelerated, of course. And without any means of configuration. So a weird emulation thing is making it possible, I guess..

Some other PC/Intel (Wintel) devices that work are certain PCI devices.
Like USB 1.x/2.x controller cards, such as those prevoiusly made by NEC.
Or SATA controller cards. For full support (booting etc) they need a special Mac firmware, of course.

I would title this "Parts that lack operating system drivers will not work".

In general, it's all about operating system driver support as opposed to the machine architecture or manufacturer that determines cross-compatibility (and sometimes video BIOS for the primary output, like others have mentioned).

I've been using PCI parts (sata, usb, ethernet, wifi, and even Nvidia GPU cards) in Sun-sparc and Mac PowerPC machines interchangeably for the last 15 or so years. I run Linux across the board and make sure the kernel itself supports the hardware.

Even taking parts from Sun-server and dropping them in a PC will work fine; such as using a Sun quad-port Ethernet card using Linux's happy-meal (Sun HME) driver. Fun stuff.

TL;DR version: PC=Ford, Mac=Ferrari. You peasants pollute Ferraris with Ford parts and then complain.
My vote is on this thread getting closed pretty soon

Yep, this is a crap thread. So much misinformation and not just from the OP.

If you choose and research your upgrades, several generic cards can be used in a Mac either out of the box (eg. NIC, USB, non-EFI video cards), or flashed to the right firmware (eg. IDE, SATA, SCSI, EFI video cards or earlier AGP/PCIe models). It's hardly a big deal.

What if computer components had QR and Barcodes printed on them and then people could scan this with the phones and bring up info on these components like what computer they came out of and compatibility.

This would help greatly in computer component reseller listings like on eBay, Craigslist , Amazon, etc.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-01-07, 19:12:

Apple's hardware is nothing special. It is just run-of-the-mill PC hardware. OSX is also just a custom version of Linux. They just choose to support a very limited range of hardware.

Sorry to nitpick, but MacOS (aka OS X) is not based on the Linux kernel. It may contain though some GNU tools such as bash. To quote Wikipedia:

Darwin is an open-source Unix-like operating system first released by Apple Inc. in 2000. It is composed of code developed by Apple, as well as code derived from NeXTSTEP, BSD, Mach, and other free software projects.

Darwin forms the core set of components upon which macOS (previously OS X and Mac OS X), iOS, watchOS, tvOS, and iPadOS are based. It is mostly POSIX-compatible, but has never, by itself, been certified as compatible with any version of POSIX. Starting with Leopard, macOS has been certified as compatible with the Single UNIX Specification version 3 (SUSv3).

See

> Sorry to nitpick, but MacOS (aka OS X)

The title of the thread says "a Mac", as in the physical machine (which yes, does work with PC parts give a suitable OS with drivers).

Had OP instead user operating-system nouns, ie: "under macOS" or "on OS X" etc, then absolutely agree!

.. I only replied just because the title will misinform naieve readers (it would make sense to just throw away the entire thread.. it's only harming the signal to noise here).

cde wrote on 2020-01-08, 13:22:

Sorry to nitpick, but MacOS (aka OS X) is not based on the Linux kernel. It may contain though some GNU tools such as bash. To quote Wikipedia:

Most of the code imported to OS X is from FreeBSD just as much of what went into Nextstep was from 4.4BSD.

Ok, yeah, so it is more of a UNIX OS.

I've only ever messed with a UNIX setup once... and just default to calling everything modern like that as Linux.. my bad.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-01-08, 16:02:

Ok, yeah, so it is more of a UNIX OS.

I've only ever messed with a UNIX setup once... and just default to calling everything modern like that as Linux.. my bad.

There are several schools of thought on that. In most ways, OS X is a UNIX, although some of the user space is different. In the case of Linux, the kernel heritage is unique, but it's designed to be source compatible with most of the UNIX ecosystem and follows UNIX standards, although it hasn't gone through the expensive certification process. The BSDs are UNIX heritage, follow the standards, but haven't gone through certification.

gdjacobs wrote on 2020-01-09, 03:29:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-01-08, 16:02:

Ok, yeah, so it is more of a UNIX OS.

I've only ever messed with a UNIX setup once... and just default to calling everything modern like that as Linux.. my bad.

There are several schools of thought on that. In most ways, OS X is a UNIX, although some of the user space is different. In the case of Linux, the kernel heritage is unique, but it's designed to be source compatible with most of the UNIX ecosystem and follows UNIX standards, although it hasn't gone through the expensive certification process. The BSDs are UNIX heritage, follow the standards, but haven't gone through certification.

I would kinda compare it like JunOS (Juniper's FreeBSD fork for its routers and switches) and EOS (Arista's Linux fork for its routers and switches). Sure, it's got UNIX underpinnings but it's targeted for a narrow set of manufacturer compliant (and rather overpriced) hardware designed for its custom use, with lockouts baked into its software images and hardware setup. Oh, and just like MacOS, if you know what you are doing and have access to correct hardware, they can all be easily virtualized.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-01-07, 15:06:

Today, the Apple ecosystem is dominating the computer industry

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Phew, that is wrong on so many levels. I'd argue the Linux ecosystem is dominating the computer industry - if you count in all the massive datacentres that make the Internet work.

Apple is mainly used by creative workers, hipsters and people who don't know any better.