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Apple is getting off Intel CPU’s ?

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Reply 400 of 414, by Bruninho

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dr_st wrote on 2020-07-29, 11:08:

I hope you at least realize that you are part of a small minority (even on VOGONS), and probably a trivial minority when it comes to the wide world. Using monikers like "Winblows" also does not make your fringe opinion any funnier or more relevant.

It wasn't me who used that moniker, but other user before me, so I was referring to him also with that post...

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 401 of 414, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-29, 12:09:

I really can't understand why people keep referring to macOS as a "walled garden" — you are not required to get your software from the Mac App Store, you can download/install anything you want, you can write and run your own applications/console programs/scripts using free tools available from Apple and others, there are several third party packet managers for all the Unix geeks out there, you can disable the Gatekeeper and SIP if you find them annoying, and the OS kernel is actually open source.

Is this because people keep confusing macOS and iOS?

Probably because of that, yes. I see it happening often. Yes, you can install and run third party software from other source instead of App Store, but doesn't mean necessarily that it will always have the same security and polished standards like the App Store apps have because of Apples standards to accept them into their store. You use it at your own risk, and I do that too, as long as you (or me) know the risks involved.

Dominus wrote on 2020-07-29, 14:54:

Yeah, walled garden is not correct in regard to macOS. They are making it more secure but you can turn all that off...

And indeed - like ShovelKnight said before, for the geeks you can always disable gatekeeper, SIP, let's not forget that macOS is more or less a "fork" of FreeBSD. I do that, too, because of my work requiring certain tasks to be done.

You can still do many "linux style tasks" on it and have a beautiful UI to work with, and better, straight out of the box. When I get to work on a new mac, I never have to customize it as much as I have with Windows or Ubuntu Linux. "It just works".

dr_st wrote on 2020-07-29, 12:18:

I think that perhaps the specific term "walled garden" is something that was borrowed (somewhat incorrectly) from the iOS world; however, macOS customizability was never held in very high regard compared to Windows/Linux (e.g., diagrams such as this one have existed before iOS). Whether this reputation is deserved or not - I will leave to someone more experienced in macOS to decide.

If you mean custom UI, then yes, but you choose among other linux distros that can let you customize the UI. I don't see reason to a customize a macOS UI when Apple perfectly nails it. But if you mean other features... ShovelKnight just explained it better than I would have written.

ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-29, 12:57:

I guess it depends on what kinds of customizability we're talking about. macOS doesn't support silly-looking UI themes, for example. On the other hand, it has some extremely useful features that I sorely miss in Windows, such as very fine-grained control over custom keyboard shortcuts (which could be system-wide or per application) or built-in GUI scripting.

VileR wrote on 2020-07-29, 15:06:

Probably because PowerShell is freaking horrible as a general-purpose CLI environment. If most Windows tutorials were written for PS, they'd be 10 times as long just for the sheer unwieldiness of constructing PS command lines, and every task would probably perform ten times slower too for that matter.

I'm sure it's good for *something*, or they wouldn't have made it, but for the life of me I couldn't tell you what that is. No idea if the concept is at fault ("everything is an object"), or just the implementation (making correct/optimal usage too non-obvious). All I know is, whenever I've tried using PS for anything more than a trivial task, I ended up tossing it and going for a different solution. Typically the latter has always proved much faster and easier.

Mind you, I'm used to Windows and prefer it as an OS, and I've never been afraid of CLIs or of learning new languages and environments. Even so, I'll take bash any day over TurtleShell. And cmd.exe works just as well given the right toolset (Swiss File Knife, AutoHotkey etc).

This. Well, I when I need Windows (and this rarely happens) I never needed to use PowerShell. I just used it once right after the OS install to remove all the bloatware that comes preinstalled with it and that's all. Never saw PS again after that. Had to spend a few hours on google to find how to remove all that bloatware to find out that you can only do that properly through PowerShell. Yuck. Then I had to spend another hour to find an app that could do that for me instead...

macOS Catalina sets zsh instead of bash as the terminal default, but it does allow me to revert back to bash, because that's what I am used to. Does Windows allow you to use a different terminal CLI ? Not that I know; the only options are CMD or PS. "But there is WSL2..." yes, except that WSL is kind of a linux environment.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 402 of 414, by VileR

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-07-29, 16:29:

Does Windows allow you to use a different terminal CLI ? Not that I know; the only options are CMD or PS. "But there is WSL2..." yes, except that WSL is kind of a linux environment.

Nothing built in, but you've got alternatives like 4NT/Take Command that you can install, and probably others. I haven't used WSL much - at this point I'm more used to MinGW/MSYS, due to using Git Bash at work (and for things like compiling DOSBox at home). 😉 That one isn't a linux environment, more of a work-alike with the GNU tools- you can seamlessly run Windows executables/batch files from it, etc., so it's pretty well integrated.

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Reply 403 of 414, by spiroyster

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This whole ARM thinggy comes as no surprise...
This is gonna cost Intel an ARM and a ...
As mentioned in there, some clever peeps spotted an ARM compatiblility in macOS (or OSX as it was then) back in 2016! Surprised this hasn't happend earlier...

🤣 OS flame wars... I guess it's been a while...

ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-29, 12:57:

I guess it depends on what kinds of customizability we're talking about. macOS doesn't support silly-looking UI themes, for example.

Yes agree, thats what these conversations always boil down to... customisation and how it looks... does macOS support any theme other than dark, and erm... not dark though? 😉

ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-29, 12:57:

On the other hand, it has some extremely useful features that I sorely miss in Windows, such as very fine-grained control over custom keyboard shortcuts (which could be system-wide or per application) or built-in GUI scripting.

You can do all this in Windows afaik, there certinaly may be some reserved keys for various things in various OS's , but nothing a script can't do in most cases invoked by a non-reserved key. Can you give an example of what you mean?

Software developers regularly use automation wrt to the UI for testing purposes, especially regression testing.
The ability to perform UI automation (while certain api's/sdk's do provide varying degrees of this out of the box) is kinda the responsibility of the developer who writes the program (specifcally when writing the UI) to support it unless going the full-on black-box route (in which case UI automation will work with everything...caveat... but have many problems along the way such as varying screen sizes and window/button locations). If anything, nix is the worst for this as there is no 'standard' desktop environment so you need to pick the GUI toolkits/window manager you want to support and stick with those.... or have releases for; macOS... Windows... and then any number of nix distros (which is a support nightmare and somewhat wasted since nix users account for probably ~1%).

VileR wrote on 2020-07-29, 15:06:
Probably because PowerShell is freaking horrible as a general-purpose CLI environment. If most Windows tutorials were written f […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2020-07-29, 08:37:

To be honest, I don't know why there aren't more Windows tutorials that use the PowerShell.

Probably because PowerShell is freaking horrible as a general-purpose CLI environment. If most Windows tutorials were written for PS, they'd be 10 times as long just for the sheer unwieldiness of constructing PS command lines, and every task would probably perform ten times slower too for that matter.

I'm sure it's good for *something*, or they wouldn't have made it, but for the life of me I couldn't tell you what that is. No idea if the concept is at fault ("everything is an object"), or just the implementation (making correct/optimal usage too non-obvious). All I know is, whenever I've tried using PS for anything more than a trivial task, I ended up tossing it and going for a different solution. Typically the latter has always proved much faster and easier.

Mind you, I'm used to Windows and prefer it as an OS, and I've never been afraid of CLIs or of learning new languages and environments. Even so, I'll take bash any day over TurtleShell. And cmd.exe works just as well given the right toolset (Swiss File Knife, AutoHotkey etc).

naaa.. PS is freaking awesome and very very powerful imo... I'm not really into the whole cmdlet thing, however I use it 99.999999% of the time over the command prompt mainly due to it supporting unix commands as well as standard dos/cmd.exe syntax... so batch scripts work and you can basically call .Net stuff in there without having to write (and compile) a program.

There are huge numbers of tutorials on powershell (it is a massive area)... just gotta look in the right place... it's certinaly a PowerUser's program, and I hear (although don't know myself) that sys admins love it.

Bruninho wrote on 2020-07-29, 16:29:

Does Windows allow you to use a different terminal CLI ? Not that I know; the only options are CMD or PS. "But there is WSL2..." yes, except that WSL is kind of a linux environment.

A CLI is just a "command line interface", so if someone wants to write an interpreter to parse the syntax of said CLI... it can exist on any OS. Natively thats another matter.. each OS picks their native CLI and subsequent syntax. The problem arises when scripts for said CLI syntax want to access filepaths etc which are accessed and governed by the OS. Of course paths too, can be converted but that comes with a lot more issues since the OS decides where to put things like User documents (C:\Users\{user_name}\Documents for win, /home/{user_name} in nix etc). Since many scripts inevitably hook into some functionality within the OS, they tend to be written for the OS (or follow the FSH aka File System Hierachy standard)... e.g. I could write a bash script and run (most of it) in PowerShell as long as I am not expecting the documents folder to be in the /home/{user_name} location (although I can still do "~/Documents"). Same for running a batch file on nix (if there was a cmd.exe equiv interpreter on nix) and I wasn't expecting user programs to be in C:\Program Files... as they are in /bin or /usr/bin etc...

My personal ramblings wrt to OS's...

I use all 3 OS's mentioned both professionally and non-professionally... I think most of the criticism levied against any particular OS is because people have limited exprience or don't really know how to use and/or script in said OS's.

I like macOS, and out of the box, I find I am most productive in it, however customisation is somewhat difficult (you need to go off piste to really get the UI customisation that other OS's provide as standard)... once I have setup nix or windows with the scripts and tools (and look) I want/need, I am as productive (if not more) in those OS's. macOS mentality is definately "It's our way or the highway", but then they do appear to put most effort into getting "their way" to be as fluid as possible... Certinaly for some reason I care less about the look when I use macOS and can just get on with stuff, however every now and then they do something which is really annoying, and usually there is no easy alternative so if you don't fix it to the way you want (if that is even possible, which it always isn't)... you are screwed. tbf though, I haven't experienced that happening recently (I think lion or moutain lion changed something that really annoyed me although I can't rememeber what... I just remember sticking with snow leopard for ages until going to El Captian).

ime I have yet to come across a desktop OS (certainly mainstream desktop OS) which is limited in any of the regards mentioned in this thread (although I'm sure they exist). Even Workbench (Amiga) had UI and non-UI automation functionality.. in fact ARexx was a very powerful tool which was incorporated into pretty much every Workbench application (functionality came with Intuition afaik, Workbenchs' GUI toolkit...tiz only what I have read though, I would be lying if I said I have done development in Workbench so no first hand experience with that).

I know non-windows users like to think windows is awful and that their OS is competitive... but the reality couldn't be futher from the truth... just look at the market share of each OS. Windows has a massive one, and as a result there are loads and loads of programs on it... also most software hooses (unless their customers request it, or they are looking to work only in a market with a certiain OS) will default to Windows as that is the safe bet to get customers... and thus monies to feed the famile etc.

Personally... shove me in front of any OS, give me a book which outlines it's command line standard and/or scripting support and in no time I would probably be happy and do everything I needed to (providing the OS supports it of course... which it probably would).... maybe not templeOS... although I really want to give that a try.

/useless_contribution_to_thread

Reply 404 of 414, by ShovelKnight

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spiroyster wrote on 2020-07-29, 17:35:

You can do all this in Windows afaik, there certinaly may be some reserved keys for various things in various OS's , but nothing a script can't do in most cases invoked by a non-reserved key. Can you give an example of what you mean?

In macOS, you can remap any menu command in any application to any keyboard shortcut. For example, I have "Paste" remapped to Cmd+Shift+V and "Paste as text" remapped to Cmd+V globally so I don't have to deal with stupid formatting when copying and pasting stuff. I have remapped image size and canvas size in Affinity Photo to Photoshop shortcuts because I used Photoshop for 12 years and these shortcuts are ingrained into my brain. Similarly, I have remapped resize and crop in Preview to suit my liking. I'm not invoking any scripts, I'm remapping keyboard shortcuts inside the applications themselves. And there are just a few reserved shortcuts in macOS, in most cases you can remap system keyboard shortcuts or simply disable them 😀

Reply 405 of 414, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-29, 19:08:

In macOS, you can remap any menu command in any application to any keyboard shortcut. For example, I have "Paste" remapped to Cmd+Shift+V and "Paste as text" remapped to Cmd+V globally so I don't have to deal with stupid formatting when copying and pasting stuff. I have remapped image size and canvas size in Affinity Photo to Photoshop shortcuts because I used Photoshop for 12 years and these shortcuts are ingrained into my brain. Similarly, I have remapped resize and crop in Preview to suit my liking. I'm not invoking any scripts, I'm remapping keyboard shortcuts inside the applications themselves. And there are just a few reserved shortcuts in macOS, in most cases you can remap system keyboard shortcuts or simply disable them 😀

This is genius. I will probably do the same now that I know it. Actually, I do know about custom shortcuts; My 2013 second-hand macbook came with broken F1 to F9 keys, no idea why, and fixing it with a new keyboard is not only expensive but also complicated. Therefore I've remapped some of the keyboard shortcuts that use these keys to new ones. Works like a charm so far. For more complicated shortcut combos, I could use an app called Karabiner to define them, but even the default macOS system settings allow me to remap as I wish almost all of my keyboard shortcuts.

BTW, Have you tried Vectornator? It's free on App Store, and its relatively very good as a competitor for Adobe Photoshop. Even the Vectornator for iOS (iPadOS) works much better. I believe Vectornator is what Photoshop should've been on both devices. I didn't like Affinity Photo at all. I've even designed a new logo for a client straight from Vectornator on my iPad (with the Pencil, ofc) and then transferred to my Mac for more use on other areas.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 406 of 414, by Bruninho

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There's a "new" iMac refresh today for 21.5 and 27 inch iMacs as well as a little refresh for the iMac Pro. Considering that the 10th gen Intel is just a rebadged 9th gen refresh, and that this may be the last Intel iMac Pro... better stick with the current machines.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 407 of 414, by BetaC

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-08-04, 16:13:

There's a "new" iMac refresh today for 21.5 and 27 inch iMacs as well as a little refresh for the iMac Pro. Considering that the 10th gen Intel is just a rebadged 9th gen refresh, and that this may be the last Intel iMac Pro... better stick with the current machines.

Technically, they're just a rebadge of a new iteration of a rebadged sixth gen.

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Reply 408 of 414, by Bruninho

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BetaC wrote on 2020-08-05, 01:32:
Bruninho wrote on 2020-08-04, 16:13:

There's a "new" iMac refresh today for 21.5 and 27 inch iMacs as well as a little refresh for the iMac Pro. Considering that the 10th gen Intel is just a rebadged 9th gen refresh, and that this may be the last Intel iMac Pro... better stick with the current machines.

Technically, they're just a rebadge of a new iteration of a rebadged sixth gen.

Yikes. I am still using a rMBP with a fourth gen i7... actually it isn't that bad. But it just gets hotter and the fans go crazy when I use VMware or some similarly heavy stuff. It's ok for work though (Adobe 🤣/Safari tabs/Coda 2). Go figure.

Pretty sure it will be my last Intel Mac. (I might be lying - I have to use another Intel Mac @ work, but it seems to be same 4th gen. I have a Late 2013 rMBP at home and I am given a 2012 Late rMBP at work)

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 409 of 414, by ShovelKnight

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-08-05, 02:25:

Yikes. I am still using a rMBP with a fourth gen i7... actually it isn't that bad. But it just gets hotter and the fans go crazy when I use VMware or some similarly heavy stuff.

Apple uses notoriously bad thermal paste, you probably need to repaste it at this point.

Reply 410 of 414, by Bruninho

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macOS Big Sur Public Beta is out. I might try again with a VMware VM just so I don't f**k up with my daily driver rMBP.

A comment I've seen in a youtube video made me laugh today:
"Mac OS is like living in a nice and well designed home: It feels good to spend time in it and everything is in its right place. Win 10 feels like a dorm: It might be clean, but you're always looking for crap under the bed."

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 411 of 414, by VileR

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-08-06, 19:00:

A comment I've seen in a youtube video made me laugh today:
"Mac OS is like living in a nice and well designed home: It feels good to spend time in it and everything is in its right place. Win 10 feels like a dorm: It might be clean, but you're always looking for crap under the bed."

The Mac OS house is also located in an insular gated community, you can't bring anything into it without a committee first ensuring that it's different enough from what the Outside plebs use, and you're not allowed to do any repairs or remodeling whatsoever.
As for Win 10, it's more like two dorm rooms - one is housing a studious MBA undergrad, the other a hipster who is flunking his design courses and works as a barista. They both decided to break down the adjoining wall so they can have one large room, but each of them thinks he owns the entire thing. 😉

[disclaimer for The Internets Of 2020: the above is a joke and not meant as serious commentary]

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Reply 412 of 414, by Bruninho

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LMAO

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 413 of 414, by appiah4

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VileR wrote on 2020-08-07, 01:33:
The Mac OS house is also located in an insular gated community, you can't bring anything into it without a committee first ensur […]
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Bruninho wrote on 2020-08-06, 19:00:

A comment I've seen in a youtube video made me laugh today:
"Mac OS is like living in a nice and well designed home: It feels good to spend time in it and everything is in its right place. Win 10 feels like a dorm: It might be clean, but you're always looking for crap under the bed."

The Mac OS house is also located in an insular gated community, you can't bring anything into it without a committee first ensuring that it's different enough from what the Outside plebs use, and you're not allowed to do any repairs or remodeling whatsoever.
As for Win 10, it's more like two dorm rooms - one is housing a studious MBA undergrad, the other a hipster who is flunking his design courses and works as a barista. They both decided to break down the adjoining wall so they can have one large room, but each of them thinks he owns the entire thing. 😉

[disclaimer for The Internets Of 2020: the above is a joke and not meant as serious commentary]

That.. is actually pretty spot on.

Now do Linux.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 414 of 414, by jmarsh

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Linux is a treehouse built in a public park by some guy who didn't want to pay rates / property tax.
The only way in is to pull yourself up a rope.
Every room looks completely different to every other room. The light switches are a completely different style, the carpet is never the same and half the doors are fake/don't go anywhere.
Trying to figure out how anything in the house actually works is near impossible unless you pull it to bits and look at the insides, and each person you ask for help gives you a completely different answer.