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First post, by chinny22

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Why has MS classified this an important update?
It doesn't remove any of the security holes of IE and now is yet another bit of software I have to keep up to date!
All on a OS they have supposedly abandoned.

Don't get me wrong, I was happily surprised they even released the new version with Win7 support , may even try it out after it's had more time to mature.
If they included it in the optional section of updates I'd also be happy.

but this is sending mixed messages releasing new software for a EOL OS and in some ways encouraging me not to move to Win10.
Anyone who is still using Windows 7 managed to avoid that time MS forced their Win10 upgrade and either weighed up the pros and cons and therefore smart enough to manually install it or stuck in their ways so wont appreciate the change either.

Guess it's my own fault should have turned off auto updates once it do go EOL

Reply 1 of 16, by DosFreak

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It doesn't have IE security holes, it has chrome ones.

It's also not abandoned, you can still pay for updates until 2023.

It's already mature, it's based on chrome just with MS additions.

Likely because they aren't developing any browsers any more except the new edge and on Windows 7 you wouldn't even be getting security updates for the old edge or IE anyway unless you pay for them.

Last edited by DosFreak on 2020-06-26, 15:02. Edited 4 times in total.

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Reply 2 of 16, by cyclone3d

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That's actually pretty cool.

You now have what is essentially MS branded Chrome on your computer.

I still use Chrome on Win10 because I see no reason to switch over to the new Edge... especially since I already have everything syncing with my Google account. No reason for me to set up the new Edge to do the same exact thing.

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Reply 3 of 16, by chinny22

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DosFreak wrote on 2020-06-26, 14:47:

It doesn't have IE security holes, it has chrome ones.

That was my point, previously I just had to worry about IE and my browser of choice as possible intrusion points. (in regards to browsers anyway) Now I get to add Edge to that list!

Don't get me wrong, i am impressed MS even bothered to test it on Win7, let alone add it on the officially supported list. I intend keeping a few Win7 PC's round for basic web browsing for a year or so yet.
It's the fact they are pushing it on me that I'm not happy (or surprised) about.

Reply 4 of 16, by dr_st

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If you don't use it, I doubt it can be exploited as an intrusion point.

BTW, I just tested one system, and even though Edge was listed as an "Important" update, it was not enabled by default in Windows Update.

But I wish they would have added SHA2 support to Schannel on Vista instead. 😜

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Reply 5 of 16, by martinot

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-06-26, 13:41:
Why has MS classified this an important update? It doesn't remove any of the security holes of IE and now is yet another bit of […]
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Why has MS classified this an important update?
It doesn't remove any of the security holes of IE and now is yet another bit of software I have to keep up to date!
All on a OS they have supposedly abandoned.

Don't get me wrong, I was happily surprised they even released the new version with Win7 support , may even try it out after it's had more time to mature.
If they included it in the optional section of updates I'd also be happy.

but this is sending mixed messages releasing new software for a EOL OS and in some ways encouraging me not to move to Win10.
Anyone who is still using Windows 7 managed to avoid that time MS forced their Win10 upgrade and either weighed up the pros and cons and therefore smart enough to manually install it or stuck in their ways so wont appreciate the change either.

Guess it's my own fault should have turned off auto updates once it do go EOL

Agree.

Would be OK (as you point out) if it was marked as an optional download/install.

Reply 6 of 16, by jesolo

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Some sites (based on what I can see) seems to be slowly dropping support for Internet Explorer.

It is therefore probably in your best interest to upgrade to a new browser. The fact that Microsoft even released Edge for Windows 7 means that you can still hang onto Windows 7 for a little while longer. However, and I'm speaking under correction, Edge for Windows 7 will only be supported until late 2021.

The plus point is that Internet Explorer is still available on Windows 10 (just not the default browser) should you eventually choose to upgrade (like I did about a month ago).

Reply 7 of 16, by dr_st

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jesolo wrote on 2020-06-26, 19:45:

It is therefore probably in your best interest to upgrade to a new browser. The fact that Microsoft even released Edge for Windows 7 means that you can still hang onto Windows 7 for a little while longer. However, and I'm speaking under correction, Edge for Windows 7 will only be supported until late 2021.

That's assuming you care about using Microsoft's browsers in the first place.

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Reply 8 of 16, by schmatzler

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jesolo wrote on 2020-06-26, 19:45:

Some sites (based on what I can see) seems to be slowly dropping support for Internet Explorer.

I'm a web developer and sometimes bigger companies still ask me for doing new projects with Internet Explorer support - mostly because it's still the default browser on their internal machines.

It's crazy, this thing should've died years ago. Of course I'm not doing that because it would often double the development time and result in a lot of hacky workarounds and a messy codebase.
Nobody wants (to pay for) that.

Even Microsofts security chief said over a year ago that IE is not a browser, it's a "compatibility solution" and people should stop using it.
So I just quote him every time I get a request to support IE and that seems to be enough to stop that idea dead in its tracks.

Reply 9 of 16, by dr_st

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schmatzler wrote on 2020-06-26, 23:31:

I'm a web developer and sometimes bigger companies still ask me for doing new projects with Internet Explorer support - mostly because it's still the default browser on their internal machines.

It's crazy, this thing should've died years ago. Of course I'm not doing that because it would often double the development time and result in a lot of hacky workarounds and a messy codebase.
Nobody wants (to pay for) that.

So, I have a question to you as a web-developer. Is the development mostly based on published web standards, or does it end up being a lot of browser-specific implementation? (even if you focus only on the browsers in active development, which IE stopped being a few years ago).

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Reply 10 of 16, by schmatzler

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dr_st wrote on 2020-06-27, 07:05:

Is the development mostly based on published web standards, or does it end up being a lot of browser-specific implementation?

If I don't have to support IE, I can adhere to the current web standards 99% of the time and it's a nice way to work in 2020.
Occasionally, I have to do some tweaks for Safari because that seems to interpret certain standards its own way sometimes - but Safari mostly works fine, too.

If IE gets mixed in...well, you're in a world of pain.
Its support for CSS Flex is rudimentary at best, CSS filter attributes (like grayscaling images) is not supported and good luck getting SVG to work reliably.
With IE, it's best not to use these features at all and rely on older technologies and methods. It's like being frozen in time.

(Bonus anecdote: The worst timefreeze is when you want to create cross-compatible mail signatures, though. The HTML implementation of Outlook is so outdated, it's ridiculous they're even charging money for this product. )

Reply 11 of 16, by dr_st

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schmatzler wrote on 2020-06-27, 12:29:

If I don't have to support IE, I can adhere to the current web standards 99% of the time and it's a nice way to work in 2020.

It's great to know. 😀

I think therefore that Microsoft's move to port Edge to Win7 might be good for developers, if whoever still uses IE on Win7 as default will move to Edge, which is more up-to-date.

schmatzler wrote on 2020-06-27, 12:29:

(Bonus anecdote: The worst timefreeze is when you want to create cross-compatible mail signatures, though. The HTML implementation of Outlook is so outdated, it's ridiculous they're even charging money for this product. )

TBH, I don't think anyone buys Outlook for its HTML implementation. 😜

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Reply 12 of 16, by chinny22

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schmatzler wrote on 2020-06-27, 12:29:

(Bonus anecdote: The worst timefreeze is when you want to create cross-compatible mail signatures, though. The HTML implementation of Outlook is so outdated, it's ridiculous they're even charging money for this product. )

Meh, Basic HTML should be enough. All the logos and advertising BS everyone includes in their signature's these days annoys me. That war is long over now, I lost, doesn't mean you'll get any sympathy from me though!

IE requirement I'm on the fence.
So many corporate applications still only work in IE. Multiple browsers increases support call's. Either users wanting to use said application in Chrome or users not paying attention or not knowing which jobs to do in which browser.
Sometime's I think, come on guys just add IE support and make my shirt term life easy.
Other times I think, Come on MS kill off IE and force these cooperate programs to update.

I have noticed out on the web IE is been dropped by seemed to really pick up last year though. HSBC banking was a big one (got plenty of calls about that)

I wasn't working during the Netscape to IE changeover but assume this is just a case of history repeating.

Reply 13 of 16, by martinot

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chinny22 wrote on 2020-06-29, 10:07:

I wasn't working during the Netscape to IE changeover but assume this is just a case of history repeating.

I worked and studied at the university during the Mosaic to Netscape changeover, and after that it has been just history repeating. 😀

Reply 14 of 16, by KCompRoom2000

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Did Microsoft HAVE to port Edge to Windows 7 and distribute it as a recommended update? There are much better browsers that I'd much rather use IMO and the main reason why I got rid of Windows 10 was due to how it pushed Edge to users of other browsers. Besides, Windows 7's support has already ended 6 months ago, so they should've left Win7 users alone and let them use their alternate web browser in peace instead of dumping yet another unwanted browser on their hard drive to rot. You didn't see MS porting IE9 to Windows XP (released three years before EOL), or IE11 to Vista (four years before EOL), so why port Edge to Windows 7?

So far for me, Edge hasn't installed on neither my Windows 7 or 8.1 systems (if it helps I configured Windows Update to install Important Updates Only and Edge is listed as an optional update because of this). This really worries me because they could change it to a critical update at any given moment and (knowing how MS today likes to push new things to their users even if they don't like it) advertisements telling me to use Edge instead of -insert non-MS browser of choice here- could pop up, which would annoy the crap out of me (I REALLY hope they don't resort to doing that practice here again).

I still post here, but only occasionally.

Reply 15 of 16, by dr_st

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KCompRoom2000 wrote on 2020-07-07, 06:49:

the main reason why I got rid of Windows 10 was due to how it pushed Edge to users of other browsers

It really does not do it as much. Not anymore, certainly. Definitely not more than Google pushes its browser every time you go to one of their websites.

KCompRoom2000 wrote on 2020-07-07, 06:49:

they should've left Win7 users alone and let them use their alternate web browser in peace instead of dumping yet another unwanted browser on their hard drive to rot

It really does not force anything on you, and the update clearly states that it will not change any default browser settings on your system.[/quote]

KCompRoom2000 wrote on 2020-07-07, 06:49:

You didn't see MS porting IE9 to Windows XP (released three years before EOL), or IE11 to Vista (four years before EOL), so why port Edge to Windows 7?

Why does it bother you so much that they actually gave something for free and outside their normal EOL timelines, for the benefit of (however small) percentage of their users that wish to use Edge browser, and which does not affect any other users in a negative way?

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Reply 16 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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Some sites (based on what I can see) seems to be slowly dropping support for Internet Explorer.

End of an era.

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