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First post, by dnewhous

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not a good idea ideas:

removal of phono input on home theater receivers

For generations phono inputs on home stereo amps and receivers provided the RIAA playback curve. This was eliminated, now turntables have to get outboard preamps
and connect to AUX, destroying the vinyl revival.

cassette players - What can I say, if they had made them better maybe we would have hung onto our collection. It took years for Peter Paul and Mary 10 to come out.
The only important features were the Dolby B noise reduction (that's what came on tape) and the bias frequency. The original recommended bias frequency was 23 kHz,
that only Radio Shack adhered to. Sony made tape players that had 160 kHz bias years later. Nowadays, it could be higher.

Kenwood car stereo speakers - I once heard a 4 way $100 pair that had better sound than anything I have ever heard. They're gone.

Soundblaster 16 had a backward compatibility glitch leading Gateway to use off-brand soundcards such as Orchid. This problem led to a plethora of clones.

removal of Windows MIDI control panel
Yamaha pulled the SW1000XG off the market when this was done. Symbolically, it means neutered Windows can't run synthesizer PCI cards.

invention of C sharp
C++ is the obvious choice for video games and even TCP/IP is doable in C++. WPF does not look as good as MFC.

discarding digital audio disc - this format was standard audio and not in "advanced audio engineering" zone.

Dismissal of SoundFX 2000. If VDMSound had quit when XP came out and had its own soundblaster and mpu-401 support, I'd say
"goodbye, and thanks for all the fish" Under the circumstances they should have carried on as a foil to VDMSound.

The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz - this thing was the basis of audio support on the original Xbox so it does matter
problem - the pins on the S/PDIF connector were backward
problem - inclusion of WaveBlaster connector when CT no longer used this feature

the dismissal of Sensaura makes it look like there was no competitor for the Xbox to reach out to. They still have a wikipedia page. Sensaura also could have been used for other virtual surround.

FF7 and FF8 port to Windows

If it weren't for these games using MIDI, I swear MIDI support would have been seen as pointless on gaming soundcards and the synthesizers would have been dropped
and the prices gone down before the next generation of Soundblaster, which was the Live!, which came out in a month.

Use of Soundblaster Live Value! This card came with Gateway computers and is I couldn't get the 3d audio effects to work, it is a budget version of a Live!

Multichannel audio on onboard audio. This caused confusion with the soundcards. The current generation of Soundblaster doesn't use EAX, and without that who cares?

Allowing games to provide surround sound - this totally took away from the use of the soundcard, led to much confusion, and the demise of EAX.

Dismissal of Groove Music - it's the only player that would flip the image to the album artist.

Beyerdynamic MMX300 the instructions have the adapter for PC gaming and game consoles backwards
Audio Technica ATH-AG1X has a short circuit on the headphone and the microphone connector

Polk Audio db Series defunct. These speakers were shallow enough to be drop in replacements for OEM speakers. They were good. I miss them. This puts an
incentive to get a speaker upgrade when you buy the car. Polk had more expensive speakers than that, but after looking at it I lost interest in anything else.

Sparkomatic car stereo speakers dismissed from market - cheapest good sounding car speakers. I forgot them. Very good. Have had them and Polks.

Universal remote controls - I've bought them from Best Buy and Crutchfield and they do not work with subtitles.

Goodwill decision not to carry VCRS with RF connectors. You can't record off cable with a VCR if you can't connect cable to the VCR.

Adobe Photoshop - used to be able to acquire from a scanner. It has the tools for image manipulation you would expect for that and no longer has - I like Corel Paintshop Pro better.
The decline of Photoshop makes me wonder what led to the end of Fedex Office.

OpenGlide - fail with Carmageddon II, try a DirectShow window, which would require rescaling the overall resolution because the resolution would probably come out much too large.

wikipedia: removal of page dedicated to cm-32l. I have used one! They didn't skrag this model, did they? This could ruin keyboards.
Electrical specifications of MIDI metasmatized. It is like they are confusing MIDI cables for audio cables. This is loss of technology.
LAPc-I This was originally designated LAPC-1, mistakenly
Soundblaster 16 Waveffects - how about an image of this one
gameport to MIDI cable - how about an image of one
160kHz Super Bias Electronics - this used to be described on the wikipedia, it's for cassette players
Master tape - there is an entry, but the information on tape bias is missing
remix - a remaster is described, but not a remix
Type II and Type 4 audiocassettes - high and metal bias tapes - I've bought this stuff, don't know if it was ever described
Type III audiocassettes? Did they ever exist? What were they? I think they were FeCr tapes (Ferri Chromes) but that's a guess and I've never seen anything written
Scotch - I used to use this brand of video tape. I didn't know they made audio cassettes.
Multichannel television sound - commonly known as MTS stereo. It's still on the wikipedia but they have short shrifted the entry.
Universal remote control - doesn't describe common controls such play, stop, and subtitles.
RIAA equalization - no clear cut terminology such as RIAA replay curve well defined
fader - for consumer electronics the definition for every car stereo is missing.
device driver - no discussion of where to download for your interested technology
Dolby Virtual Speaker - still has a FAQ with Cyberlink, ought to have a wikipedia page.
HRTF needs to be related to psychoacoustics on wikiepedia
Defunct companies ART (Advanced Research Technology) and Digitech don't have wikipedia pages, I used to own some of their gear
bias frequency should be a searchable selection under Tape bias.
Axiomatic bias frequency - needs to be defined on the wikipedia.
Turtle Beach - I've bought this brand and they carry their products at Walmart!
Image of soundblaster with waveblaster header is deceptive.
Image of soundblaster 16 is deceptive, it should have CT1747 IC visible.

Visual Studio 2019 appears to have dropped MFC applications. And Visual C++ has dropped the DirectXSDK. So Visual C++ is useful now neither for desktop applications nor for video games.

things that were not done well enough or done on time

CD players - maybe they could have waited for a 48kHz sampling frequency

USB should have been available as soon as the PCI bus was available and no game port should have been used anymore

Images on the wikipedia now resize when selected, but this should have been done from the beginning.

graphical widget - now defined on the wikipedia

CassetteDeck.org - there was an older site with more complete information than this, the reference unit is the Sony TC-WA9ES

satellite radio

They did not choose an adequate modulation scheme to get the bit rates they needed. They really needed to broadcast at 48 kpbs to get above the hard of hearing
audio fidelity threshold. At these bit rates HE-AACv1 is good enough, they don't need to wait until HE-AACv2.

HD radio

First off, the bit rate is supposed to go up when analog is retired. What about surround sound? A modulation scheme to allow for AC-4 broadcast of 192 kbps surround sound is possible. Remember, it's relatively low bit rate material so AC-3 or DTS are right out. Then do we want to compromise surround sound with the fader bucket? If no, to broadcast virtual surround you need some sort of psychoacoustics. Dolby, DTS, or even Creative Technology could do this.

Which is where demise of DVD-Audio comes in. That's the source they needed for surround sound radio, and without that we have multicasting of stereo instead. The sampling frequency was 96 kHz v 384 kHz with SACD.

Surround sound music implies a remix of the original music. It has been done.

Some good technological decisions

1) DOSBox, especially including a Tandy mode with the speaker
2) Windows included a default softsynth. This means the Windows MIDI interface is always there and is undeniable and there is something to check against.
3) the Santa Cruz could use GM.DLS
4) Wikipedia page on MIDI now puts the years back far enough to be real, the Yamaha DX-7 (1983) had MIDI connectors and has been in music videos.
5) the pinout of the sync DIN on the wikipedia
6) retiring the VDM from Windows
7) Soundblaster MIDI synthesis is no longer emulated in DOSBox.
😎 Microsoft Office supporting the Mathtype plugin.
9) The MathType plugin supporting teX characters. Sorry Unix.
10) Awave Studio - lets you take your MIDI bank and change formats
11) By God, the Roland Integra 7 supports DLS after all
12) Polk Audio home stereo speakers. They really have good price/performance
13) RadioShack - they live!
14) Denon is back, with better receivers than Onkyo or Integra.
15) elided - Visual Studio 2019 Community version appears stripped bare for C++
16) Soundcards with dedicated headphone outputs
17) ImageWriter - the only printers for Apple II that were any good are still available on ebay. Oops, ebay has some good info, before ImageWriter there was Scribe. I remember having one of those. There were LaserWriters I
couldn't afford and Deskwriters that came out in 1993 that I didn't know about.
18) Adobe Incopy - it integrates with InDesign so it gets MathType too
19) musician's earplugs
20) Microchip Technologies makes inexpensive Digital Signal Controllers, like $5.13 for a dual core.
21) Microsoft bought Ada and changed the syntax so that polymorphism is intelligible. Now I understand that you can't pass user defined types by reference. I never have used polymorphism is Ada and I never figured out what the limitation was before GNAT dropped it.
22) Tinactin, Lamisil, and Neosporin which are fighting my croch rot.

Last edited by dnewhous on 2020-08-03, 21:53. Edited 78 times in total.

Daniel L Newhouse

Reply 2 of 100, by darry

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kolderman wrote on 2020-07-22, 01:07:

> The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz - this thing was the basis of audio support on the original Xbox so it does matter

Was it?

The Turtle Beach Santa Cruz was based around the CS4630 chip . AFAIK, the Xbox first gen audio system was similar to (or based on or the predecessor to) the Nvidia Nforce .

Reply 3 of 100, by Carrera

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My Denon 1500 has a phono input. So they do exist...
I personally am very wary of the death of physical media in general.
My kids "forced" me to get amazon prime and the number of times a movie they want to watch all of a sudden costs something is very annoying.
Also the surfeit of streaming services means you are constantly taking a hit on cash flow.
I live in Europe but have many DVDs and Blu-Rays (how I wish region.-free HD DVD had won ) and even finding a decent player that can play all formats and regions is getting difficult. It is practically easier to buy a device in the US and have 2 devices than finding one that is easily made region-free. (I am aware of the many devices out there that have been chipped or modded to play it all, for some strange reason I like using codes to "unlock" things more....

My son wants to build a PC and one of my main devices (a video capture device) requries a firewire connection. The mainboard recommended to me doesn't even have PCI slots! (I am sure there are some out there I just haven't looked)...

The future used to look so much better...

Reply 4 of 100, by schmatzler

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Carrera wrote on 2020-07-22, 08:31:

and even finding a decent player that can play all formats and regions is getting difficult.

The easiest way would be getting a PlayStation 3 - put HAN (or HEN for later models) on it and install Webman Mod and voila - you've got yourself a region-free DVD and BluRay player.

Reply 5 of 100, by dnewhous

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Blockbuster. They are technology. Blockbuster started to go downhill when they said they couldn't rent game consoles anymore.

Last edited by dnewhous on 2020-07-25, 07:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Daniel L Newhouse

Reply 6 of 100, by Zup

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Nobody talks about standard batteries being substituted by (not standard) rechargeable ones?

I still have digital cameras that uses AA batteries and a mp3 that uses AAA... but I know that my (better) Philips mp3 will be junk when the battery fails.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 7 of 100, by dnewhous

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I like Rayovac batteries by the way.

DTS owns Ibiquity which owns HD Radio. DTS Neural Surround I suppose would be the choice? Doesn't have the same ring as "broadcasting in Dolby". If I were an announcer saying "broadcasting in DTS Neural Surround" it just doesn't have the same ring to it. Also, the only formats with surround sound are DVD-A and SACD which are advanced engineering audio formats which have never caught on that well. You can't rip those formats. Wav file does have 5 channels in it, but is limited to 96 kHz and SACD takes 384 kHz. Can the wav file be cranked?

Just joking about broadcasting in Neural Surround. The intent is to broadcast in low bit rate (compared to CD) and do ... geez I've been up all night with jock itch. Well, basically a 100 kpbs ac-3 stream. That's a bit low. What's the encoder? Maybe AC-4? It depends on the bit rate. Nokia would lose their licensing fees.

Now I see, after receiving surround sound in Dolby, the head unit itself can process DTS Neural Surround for 2 speakers.

Also, tough actin' tinactin. When you are really infected you need this stuff.

I do remember, when they drop the analog broadcast the digital bit rate will increase significantly.

Last edited by dnewhous on 2020-07-22, 23:18. Edited 2 times in total.

Daniel L Newhouse

Reply 8 of 100, by ShovelKnight

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Canon was the only legacy camera company that handled the great AF transition of the 1980s well. Minolta abandoned their old lens mount they used since 1960s but they still used mechanical focus coupling and mechanical aperture control. Nikon and Pentax both kept their old lens mounts which seemed a good decision at the time but even now the majority of Nikon SLR lenses still use the same old mechanical aperture control. Because of this, Canon is the only legacy camera company that has full and seamless compatibility between their SLR mount (EF) and their mirrorless mount (RF), and the adapter they use is just a tube with a bunch of contacts. In comparison, Nikon's expensive FTZ adapter is a useless piece of junk that is only compatible with a fraction of their lens catalog.

Reply 11 of 100, by schmatzler

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-22, 19:20:

Nikon and Pentax both kept their old lens mounts which seemed a good decision at the time but even now the majority of Nikon SLR lenses still use the same old mechanical aperture control.

That's actually a plus. I have various old lenses from the 70's and 80's and I can still use them on my current Nikon camera. Even the manual lenses that lack any autofocus functionality.

Bad for Nikon, because they don't make money if people just keep their lenses for decades, but good for me.

Reply 12 of 100, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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dnewhous wrote on 2020-07-22, 00:05:
not a good idea ideas: […]
Show full quote

not a good idea ideas:

removal of phono input on home theater receivers

For generations phono inputs on home stereo amps and receivers provided the RIAA playback curve. This was eliminated, now turntables have to get outboard preamps
and connect to AUX, destroying the vinyl revival.

To be fair, many audiophiles would rather have dedicated phono preamp than supposedly mediocre phono preamp in an AV receiver.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 13 of 100, by darry

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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-07-23, 15:38:
dnewhous wrote on 2020-07-22, 00:05:
not a good idea ideas: […]
Show full quote

not a good idea ideas:

removal of phono input on home theater receivers

For generations phono inputs on home stereo amps and receivers provided the RIAA playback curve. This was eliminated, now turntables have to get outboard preamps
and connect to AUX, destroying the vinyl revival.

To be fair, many audiophiles would rather have dedicated phono preamp than supposedly mediocre phono preamp in an AV receiver.

From what I have seen of some mass market, modern and inexpensive turntables, they tend to have an integrated pre-amp, uneven platters and are bundled with extremely crappy cartridges that require something like 9g of VTF .

Full disclosure: I am not a vinyl lover in the sense that I have no nostalgia or affection for the format's limits/flaws . I prefer my sound to be as close as possible to the studio masters . That said, I will use vinyl if something I want is unavailable on a lossless digital medium (theoretical scenario so far, but I do have a Technics SL-Q2 ready for that eventuality).

Last edited by darry on 2020-07-23, 16:00. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 14 of 100, by ShovelKnight

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schmatzler wrote on 2020-07-23, 12:48:
ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-22, 19:20:

Nikon and Pentax both kept their old lens mounts which seemed a good decision at the time but even now the majority of Nikon SLR lenses still use the same old mechanical aperture control.

That's actually a plus. I have various old lenses from the 70's and 80's and I can still use them on my current Nikon camera. Even the manual lenses that lack any autofocus functionality.

Bad for Nikon, because they don't make money if people just keep their lenses for decades, but good for me.

Well, for most current Nikon cameras this compatibility is very spotty - they can't even meter properly with manual lenses. In fact, you get better functionality (e.g. aperture priority and full matrix metering mode) using manual Nikon lenses on Canon cameras, unless you pay for one of Nikon's top-end bodies 😁 Nikon's "old" AF lenses that don't have the built-in motor also autofocus only on select Nikon cameras.

In contrast, every Canon EF lens works perfectly on every Canon EOS camera. Canon was so prescient that they even included distortion correction information into the EF lens protocol. You can use the earliest EF lenses (released in 1987-1995) on modern Canon cameras with full functionality (AF, IS, automatic distortion correction). There are no Nikon lenses made in 1987 that work with full functionality on all current Nikon cameras.

Reply 15 of 100, by ShovelKnight

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darry wrote on 2020-07-23, 15:57:

From what I have seen of some mass market, modern and inexpensive turntables, they tend to have an integrated pre-amp, uneven platters and are bundled with extremely crappy cartridges that require something like 9g of VTF .

I'm heavily into vinyl and there are literally no decent new turntables under approximately $1000. And if somebody is willing to spend $1000 on a turntable, they probably can afford a quality phono preamp as well.

Reply 16 of 100, by Standard Def Steve

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dnewhous wrote on 2020-07-22, 15:03:
Also, the only formats with surround sound are DVD-A and SACD which are advanced engineering audio formats which have never caug […]
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Also, the only formats with surround sound are DVD-A and SACD which are advanced engineering audio formats which have never caught on that well. You can't rip those formats. Wav file does have 5 channels in it, but is limited to 96 kHz and SACD takes 384 kHz. Can the wav file be cranked?

Just joking about broadcasting in Neural Surround. The intent is to broadcast in low bit rate (compared to CD) and do ... geez I've been up all night with jock itch. Well, basically a 100 kpbs ac-3 stream. That's a bit low. What's the encoder? Maybe AC-4? It depends on the bit rate. Nokia would lose their licensing fees.

Now I see, after receiving surround sound in Dolby, the head unit itself can process DTS Neural Surround for 2 speakers.

Also, tough actin' tinactin. When you are really infected you need this stuff.

I do remember, when they drop the analog broadcast the digital bit rate will increase significantly.

Sure you can do bit-perfect DVD-A rips. That 96 KHz @ 5.1 is a limitation of the DVD-A spec itself. Even MLP-compressed 5.1 at 96 KHz can creep up to around 8.5 mb/s. 192 KHz would be twice that, which is beyond what a 1x DVD player can manage. That's why 192 KHz is only available on the stereo tracks (which, btw, rip just fine to 192 KHz WAVs). Compress them with FLAC, and they're half the file size.

I believe BD-A can do the full 192KHz on 5.1 tracks.

I don't own any SACDs, but I believe they can be ripped as well. They wouldn't be bit-perfect rips like DVD-A, due to the nature of the beast (SACDs use a DSD encoding scheme, which would have to be converted to PCM, whilst DVD-A is already a PCM based format), however Foobar2000 can convert DSD to FLAC.

I haven't subscribed to any kind of TV service for years, but I remember most stations broadcasting AC3 at 384-448 kb/s, which is the same as most DVDs. That was during the bad old MPEG-2 days; they've probably switched to E-AC3/DD+ at a lower bit rate since then. However, E-AC3 is twice as efficient as regular AC3. Netflix somehow manages to fit decent sounding 5.1 @ 192 kb/s! I've actually felt Netflix content hit around 20 Hz (the pressurized room and pant leg flapping sensation is what gives it away). E-AC3 is a damn efficient codec, probably even better than AAC in that regard!

Last edited by Standard Def Steve on 2020-07-23, 16:13. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 17 of 100, by Intel486dx33

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I have an old Yamaha 7.1 HTR-5960 A/V receiver with all kinds of old inputs and it still works well today.

Look at this on eBay
Yamaha HTR-5960 7.1 Channel Digital Home AV A/V Theater Receiver

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-HTR-5960-7-1- … 2cAAOSwavZe2w1w

I also have a NEW 65” 4k TV ( Vizio M-658-g1 ) with great picture and every input/output you can think of.
It works great.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/reviews/vizio-65 … ith-hdr/6345460

Reply 18 of 100, by darry

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-07-23, 16:07:
darry wrote on 2020-07-23, 15:57:

From what I have seen of some mass market, modern and inexpensive turntables, they tend to have an integrated pre-amp, uneven platters and are bundled with extremely crappy cartridges that require something like 9g of VTF .

I'm heavily into vinyl and there are literally no decent new turntables under approximately $1000. And if somebody is willing to spend $1000 on a turntable, they probably can afford a quality phono preamp as well.

A used Technics SL-1200 is about half that in US dollars and I have seen them locally for much less . Even if you need to pay someone to lube/clean it, it's still a better deal, IMHO .

Reply 19 of 100, by ShovelKnight

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darry wrote on 2020-07-23, 16:15:

A used Technics SL-1200 is about half that in US dollars and I have seen them locally for much less . Even if you need to pay someone to lube/clean it, it's still a better deal, IMHO .

I'm currently running a used setup that cost me over €2.5k, and I would have to spend close to €10k to get something new in the same class, so yeah, used is the way to go in this case.