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First post, by Cyberdyne

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Everything else I more or less understand but why:

"It's not okay to bump a thread that's been dead without any new replies for 12 years."

If you have something to say about that thread?

PS. Your "abandoware" policy is most anal in the whole internet. 😉

I am aroused about any X86 motherboard that has full functional ISA slot. I think i have problem. Not really into that original (Turbo) XT,286,386 and CGA/EGA stuff. So just a DOS nut.

Reply 2 of 28, by konc

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The way I see it it more about stopping seeing posts like "yeah me too", "I also had this as a kid", "nice photo" in dead threads.
I believe that in cases where new and valuable information is added to the thread it's tolerated (and should be), in fact I think I've even seen this exact thing mentioned somewhere in the old forum

Reply 3 of 28, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-10-07, 05:45:

Everything else I more or less understand but why:

"It's not okay to bump a thread that's been dead without any new replies for 12 years."

If you have something to say about that thread?

While I cannot speaker for the moderators, especially since I'm not one, I can't remember the last time a mod reprimand someone for replying to an old thread. It seems to me it's okay as long as you add something new to the said thread.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-10-07, 05:45:

PS. Your "abandoware" policy is most anal in the whole internet. 😉

As for this one, yes, there is a policy to not allow members to post link to abandonware sites, and I have seen myself link(s) being removed for violating such policy.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 4 of 28, by Oetker

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It's annoying when people add a stupid reply to an old thread, but it's also annoying when people use an ancient semi-related thread to ask a new question (because they're afraid to open a new one?). People are less likely to notice the question and it makes it harder to find in the future.

Reply 5 of 28, by dr_st

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Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-10-07, 05:45:

"It's not okay to bump a thread that's been dead without any new replies for 12 years."

If you have something to say about that thread?

It depends on the nature of the thread as well as the nature of the new reply. A 12-year old thread can have lots of information that is outdated, irrelevant and downright incorrect in regards to the current state of affairs. Bumping such a thread will expose everyone to this information, and may create confusion.

On the other hand, if the realities discussed in the original thread did not change with time, and you reply with something that's exactly on point and is closely related to the discussion, I don't think anyone will have a problem.

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Reply 7 of 28, by Dominus

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Search the internet, there have been many discussions about the good and bad of necrobumping a thread.
We try to differ between a good reply and a bad reply so you see some necroposts that we let slide and some we don't.

And beating up the old abandonware horse? Geez... that has been explained over and over. Suck it up

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Reply 8 of 28, by gerry

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Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-10-07, 05:45:
Everything else I more or less understand but why: […]
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Everything else I more or less understand but why:

"It's not okay to bump a thread that's been dead without any new replies for 12 years."

If you have something to say about that thread?

PS. Your "abandoware" policy is most anal in the whole internet. 😉

I can see why, especially if the contribution isn't adding some pertinent new detail - may as well create a new thread and engage the current forum members

I do kind of enjoy the occasional bubbling up of some ancient thread though, it's kind retro within retro if you see what I mean!

as for abandonware, no on needs to involve a forum - if someone wants to look for stuff they can do so by themselves, I'm ok with that

Reply 9 of 28, by vetz

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Many necroposts are just asking a question to the OP or other poster 12 years after the thread was created. The OP might not even be on the forum anymore and it's then better to just create a new thread.

If you add valuable information, then yes it's OK.

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Reply 10 of 28, by rmay635703

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gerry wrote on 2020-10-07, 11:21:

I do kind of enjoy the occasional bubbling up of some ancient thread though, it's kind retro within retro if you see what

Agreed, I have never seen a necro thread I didn’t like.

I really don’t see any need to moderate this practice any more than a new thread, if it’s spam or whatever it would disappear anyway, if not it’s a fun trip down memory lane

Carrera wrote on 2020-10-07, 08:50:

In many ways I prefer the way life was 12 years ago....

Agreed, we have sorta gone way overboard in certain directions since that time.

Obtaining and selling vintage equipment was 1,000,000x easier back then for example.

There still were actually useful fairs, craft shows, thrift stores, And USED computer stores, etc that weren’t derelict shells like there are now.

Made it so I could reasonably get new to me vintage equipment, refurb, play around and move on without dropping a load of $$$ to change systems and further you could physically see the stuff first, fully virtual has resulted in much more limited access to the stuff.

Ebay was a lot easier on the individual, there wasn’t the hord of chinesium that pollutes it now and you could still bid in most cases instead of everything being a bin affair.

Ah well too bad so sad, nastalga like the above is what keeps sites alive.

Last edited by rmay635703 on 2020-10-07, 14:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 12 of 28, by Jo22

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But it is okay to necro a thread that you created yourself, isn't it ? 😀
I mean, if you started a project in, say, 2008 and finally finish it in 2028..

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 13 of 28, by UCyborg

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I've seen a case of adding useful information to an old thread and the thread being locked shortly afterwards. Nice job, especially considering such threads had their time to get a nice spot in search engines. /s

Oh, and there's the announcement at the top of the Windows sub-forum that it's meant to discuss issues with games on currently supported Windows versions, yet there's stuff pertaining to Windows 98 on first page. Also, Windows 7 is EOS since January 14, 2020.

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Reply 14 of 28, by Errius

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-07, 14:42:

But it is okay to necro a thread that you created yourself, isn't it ? 😀
I mean, if you started a project in, say, 2008 and finally finish it in 2028..

I have a Zenith radio I dismantled in the 1990s which I still haven't got around to reassembling. The parts have been sitting on the same shelf in the same cupboard for well over 20 years.

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Reply 15 of 28, by leileilol

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Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-10-07, 05:45:

PS. Your "abandoware" policy is most anal in the whole internet. 😉

Legally, it's undefined, risky, and as genuine as the old 24 hour ROM "rules" as it's all propagated by hearsay and opinions. Developer-wise, forbidding them is a vital noise filter as they spawn many many false bug reports wasting lots of time. There's also a chance of unfamiliarity to go with it. (*cough*"This program requires Microsoft Windows"/"This program cannot run in MS-DOS mode" threads*cough*)

Also it's perfectly possible to post on VOGONS without dropping links to unauthorized copyrighted materials for decades.... as well as being easy to not go far back in time to bump a thread about a possible already fixed bug or some completely different issue entirely. In a forum of mostly old computer enthusiasts, this should already be common sense by now....

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Reply 16 of 28, by Stiletto

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Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-10-07, 05:45:

If you have something to say about that thread?

I didn't say it was a rule violation, I said it was not okay.

(The abandonware link was definitely a rule violation though.)

You want to bump a decade old thread? Well, It's very simple what to do instead:

1. CREATE a new thread.
2. In the first post in the thread, LINK back to the old one.
3. If you really must, QUOTE the old thread for reference.

In our earliest of days, we thought that most threads were okay to let run on forever.
Especially those where we were trying to find the answers to questions, or a final solution to a problem, when most posts were in The Guide (DOS or Windows).
Our game plan for such reference threads was that we'd lock threads where we'd come across some solution, and make a new thread in Deep Thought distilling the information down to instructions, ending the conversation.
Given how little use Deep Thought has seen, you can see how well that plan worked out.
This was pre-Marvin, during the times when the forum's focus was on computer game compatibility.
This was also mostly pre-VOGONS hosting of DOSBox Forums.
And definitely pre-wikis, for the most part.

But anyway, some of those threads in The Guide DID last years.
And then the conversation died in some of them, for many more years.
And we never bothered locking them due to age.

And now, VOGONS is 18 years old. I don't think we ever thought it would last this long!

But we gathered together a great community of emulation experts, and hardware experts, and hobbyists, and amateurs, over the years, and it seems there's something for every PC nerd of all stripes to be interested in.
It's a unique community - there's few others like it online. 😀

So yes, forum threads can be good as a repository of information. And the wealth of information in VOGONS is deep and vast.
But hard to find, no matter how good the search engine, so that's why wikis and so on were eventually created to be companions to VOGONS, especially when Deep Thought maintenance had dwindled.

BUT as it turns out, forum threads aren't JUST a repository of information - they're a conversation. And conversations have a natural ebb and flow, a birth and a death.

Let's say that you're in a group of friends. Do you really walk up to them and say "hey, remember that thing we were talking about 15 years ago? I have things to add to that conversation now."
They'd all look at you as if you were odd - which you would be... odd.

Instead, it's socially acceptable to start a new conversation - and if anyone remembers, reference the old one.

Now, this IS the Internet - it's not Real Life, and not beholden to the same conversational mores that we abide by socially as various cultures flung around this world.

But yet, some still seem to appear, moreso as the Internet ages and its early hubs become community keystones. Delayed by some duration, but there's still some sense of them.

So... would you wander onto Google Groups' USENET archive and quote someone's email from 1986 to resurrect that USENET email chain? No, you wouldn't, and shouldn't, even though you could. And some people will. I'm glad I'm not on USENET any more.

Still, I have posts on VOGONS that I made over 18 years ago. Even if the conversation you have to add is related and relevant, isn't there some deadline under which I shouldn't have to see my words from 23-yr-old me be thrown up in my face, my notifications, flagged or emailed about? I probably don't know half of the ones that will do that, to be honest.

Isn't there some point where your gut tells you "this conversation has been dead for a while... let's start a new one!"?
Isn't there some deadline under where it just stops making sense to do much more than obliquely reference the past conversation?

For me, that deadline is about 3.5 years since last reply. Not days, not weeks, not months - years. And not since first post - since last reply. Just a gut feeling. But everyone is different. Which is why there's a guideline and no official rule. Why some moderators care, and others don't care as much. And why it's not evenly applied. And why some cases we let slide.

In the older threads, some participants are banned, some are even dead - it's been 18 years. They're not gonna rejoin the conversation and answer your new post in response to their question - they've moved on, they're in a different point of life than they were 12 years ago, or 18 years ago. Some people joined VOGONS, posted their question, participated for a few years, but didn't return - if the forum software went to email them a notification, that email would probably bounce. Others have been here off and on for well over a decade, our MVP veterans of many discussions, troubleshooting, arguments...

What we've seen is that if you don't draw a line -somewhere-, it's conversational chaos.

Based on my many years of experience, I would tell 23-yr-old me that as it turns out, far MORE people find posts quoting or responding to multiple-years dead conversations -annoying- than helpful, no matter if there's been some earthshaking discovery/solution or not.

But that doesn't mean you can't find a way to respond! 😀

1. CREATE a new thread.
2. In the first post in the thread, LINK back to the old one.
3. If you really must, QUOTE the old thread for reference.

So I usually recommend to start a new thread! It may become the more popular one for years to come.

All of the above is merely my point of view such as it is right now, and not official rules of VOGONS or its admins or moderators.

---

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The "flavor text" for the above cartoon as written by the cartoonist Randall Munroe: (https://xkcd.com/2363/ )

"(c) You can have a scooter when you pay for it yourself, and (d) if you can't learn to start a new thread rather than responding to an old one, you'll be banned. [thread locked by moderator]"

😁

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-10-08, 03:47. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 17 of 28, by leileilol

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There's some times where i've linked a previous old thread for reference on a new member's thread and that linked old thread would be bumped with a duplicate post, so I don't even do that anymore.

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Reply 18 of 28, by Stiletto

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leileilol wrote on 2020-10-08, 02:47:

There's some times where i've linked a previous old thread for reference on a new member's thread and that linked old thread would be bumped with a duplicate post, so I don't even do that anymore.

Roger that... 🙄

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

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Reply 19 of 28, by dr_st

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leileilol wrote on 2020-10-08, 02:47:

There's some times where i've linked a previous old thread for reference on a new member's thread and that linked old thread would be bumped with a duplicate post, so I don't even do that anymore.

Yep, it's probably better to just quote without a link. 😀

Thanks to search engines, though, I think that more often than not such necrobumps are accidental. Someone looks for something on the web (or maybe through the built-in forum search), one of the first hits is a VOGONS thread that seems relevant, and that someone may reply without paying attention to the date of the last post.

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