Circles... ovals... so what. Hey, next level. everybody is talking about LAG...... I play allmost all my games on a ultra cheap 55" or 32" TVs with VGA in. Use an USB keyboard and controller, or use software emulators, even with those ultra action games like Contra, I do not notice, that my gaming experience is somehow hampered by LAG, but everybody is talking about F....ING MILLISECONDS.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:26:

Circles... ovals... so what. Hey, next level. everybody is talking about LAG...... I play allmost all my games on a ultra cheap 55" or 32" TVs with VGA in. Use an USB keyboard and controller, or use software emulators, even with those ultra action games like Contra, I do not notice, that my gaming experience is somehow hampered by LAG, but everybody is talking about F....ING MILLISECONDS.

Now you remind me of Thorsten, a colleague, which came from former GDR.. 😁
He often got easily upset, not to say mad by modern day stuff, such as political correctness, "gender speak" (as in actor/actress, steward /stewardess etc) and feminism/emancipation.

For example, in his opinion, two best "friends" should not be allowed holding hands in the public..
He thinks they should do that secretly only, where no one can see that (holding hands).
When we watched a documentary about Russia, in which a mob was chasing after two "friends" who did that in the open, he said it was totally legit and it was totally their own fault, because of their extreme "provocation".

Anyway, it has nothing to do with you really.
You just remembered me of him. He was interesting to talk to, but had a lot of temper also.

Jo22 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:00:

- Internally, old consoles often used screen resolutions with another aspect ratio (5:4 or 8:7).

No, the aspect ratio of (mostly) all old consoles is 4:3. That's the aspect ratio any TV would display those resolutions as. It's also what the games were designed around, and thoroughly iterated on. Finding the occasional art asset that looks better stretching the image to 8:7 doesn't really change that.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:26:

Circles... ovals... so what. Hey, next level. everybody is talking about LAG...... I play allmost all my games on a ultra cheap 55" or 32" TVs with VGA in. Use an USB keyboard and controller, or use software emulators, even with those ultra action games like Contra, I do not notice, that my gaming experience is somehow hampered by LAG, but everybody is talking about F....ING MILLISECONDS.

Cheaper TVs don't necessarily have more lag. Cheap controllers don't either, especially not wired (wireless is a different matter).

ZellSF wrote on 2020-11-13, 23:17:

Jo22 wrote on 2020-11-13, 17:00:

- Internally, old consoles often used screen resolutions with another aspect ratio (5:4 or 8:7).

No, the aspect ratio of (mostly) all old consoles is 4:3. That's the aspect ratio any TV would display those resolutions as. It's also what the games were designed around, and thoroughly iterated on. Finding the occasional art asset that looks better stretching the image to 8:7 doesn't really change that.

Well, true, I won't argue.
It's just that some people used to emulators favour the raw output of emulators,
whithout any TV set emulation / aspect correction. Or rather, insist this to be the real thing.
Perhaps because emulators originally didn't feature a faithful TV simulation.
The popular 320x200 256c VGA resolution in DOS was perhaps too low for consoles of the 16-Bit generation also, not sure.

I always wondered what former developers think about this issue.
They developed games on a workstation, with professional RGB monitors (maybe VGA like even) and combined hardware/software emulators (say, a modfied SNES/MD with PC interface), EPROM emulators and so on.
For example, Nintendo had a SNES emulator
named Silhouette that ran on Macintosh platform..

On the other hand, they also had stock consoles with cheap TV sets (RF or Composite) for final testing and beta testers.
Many effects relying on dithering needed such a cheap setup, which also was the hardware configuration of the audience (kids rarely had luxury TVs in their bed rooms) .
Dithering (checker board patterns, gradients) and colour/rainbow banding don't work on RGB, but do work fine on NTSC via RF.

So in the end, the team had both 4:3 output and the unaltered pixel output on the workstation.
Now, the question is, for which one did they do their artwork for?
I don't know. I assume it's similar to the Deluxe Paint dilemma on DOS, in which the drawing routine for the circles malfunctioned.

I don't mind aspect ratio being a little off. 4:3 games on 5:4 doesn't seem like much of a problem. I've sometimes stretched 16:9 videos on my 16:10 monitor. It's more of a bother with videos of real people but I don't care much if it's just graphics.
I have an old Samsung TN panel 16:9 monitor that I've held onto because it's decent for DOS. It can be manually toggled to 4:3 but depending what I'm running, sometimes I leave it at 16:9 despite how severely that stretches things.

However input lag is something I can't stand, particularly in 2D. Trying to play NES games on an LCD is often infuriating, but some setups are better than others.
It's even a problem in modern 2D games that were designed for LCDs like Super Mario Something 15 or Cuphead or whatever. The whole 2D action genre is universally impaired today because of this issue (made even worse by excessive animations in modern games).
A few months ago I bought "Black Paradox" for PC which is a scrolling 2D shooter. It's noticeably laggy. I don't know if the blame lies more with my LCD monitor or my wireless XBox 360 controller, but it really hurts the game for me.

I'm used to playing NES/Genesis/SNES games on CRTs because I never stopped doing that, so that's still the level of responsiveness I need from a 2D game in order to enjoy it.

As far as image quality, I think computer games generally look fine on LCDs (even non 4:3) as long as 72Hz is supported. With console games I'm picky about using a CRT though because of multiple issues that don't apply to PC games nearly as much.

Look at my awesome new wallpaper

MrFlibble wrote on 2021-01-12, 19:49:

Look at my awesome new wallpaper https://i.imgur.com/ohMdkku.jpg […]
Show full quote

Look at my awesome new wallpaper

LOL! 🤣

Jo22 wrote on 2020-11-13, 22:15:

For example, in his opinion, two best "friends" should not be allowed holding hands in the public..
He thinks they should do that secretly only, where no one can see that (holding hands).
When we watched a documentary about Russia, in which a mob was chasing after two "friends" who did that in the open, he said it was totally legit and it was totally their own fault, because of their extreme "provocation".

What an idiot. In my opinion, people can do whatever the hell they want. If people want to eat berries, while skydiving naked. Then have at it.

MrFlibble wrote on 2021-01-12, 19:49:

Look at my awesome new wallpaper https://i.imgur.com/ohMdkku.jpg […]
Show full quote

Look at my awesome new wallpaper

Baby got some meat on them bones.

brostenen wrote on 2021-01-13, 00:13:

Jo22 wrote on 2020-11-13, 22:15:

For example, in his opinion, two best "friends" should not be allowed holding hands in the public..
He thinks they should do that secretly only, where no one can see that (holding hands).
When we watched a documentary about Russia, in which a mob was chasing after two "friends" who did that in the open, he said it was totally legit and it was totally their own fault, because of their extreme "provocation".

What an idiot. In my opinion, people can do whatever the hell they want. If people want to eat berries, while skydiving naked. Then have at it.

Skydiving is rather cold at altitude, and It would be pretty challenging to hold the berries and work your parachute. I can't say I would recommend it.

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-13, 01:04:

brostenen wrote on 2021-01-13, 00:13:

What an idiot. In my opinion, people can do whatever the hell they want. If people want to eat berries, while skydiving naked. Then have at it.

Skydiving is rather cold at altitude, and It would be pretty challenging to hold the berries and work your parachute. I can't say I would recommend it.

I'm often using the cold to excuse my berries. But, at least the ratio is correct.