The human brain doesn't exactly respond to these things in a linear fashion. As frame rates go up, different people will become less sensitive to the improvement at different points. A 33% increase won't be necessarily more apparent than a 20% increase if your starting points are different. Your sensitivity may just be starting to drop off above 60Hz.

But it also depends on the games, on how they're programmed to deal with different refresh rates, on whether or not they're always respecting your setting, or perhaps they are but your GPU isn't, etc.

Personally my acid test would be going to 70 Hz, and seeing if a smooth-scrolling VGA game (on real hardware or in DOSBox) really scrolls smoothly. But that's just because I don't know of any surefire test for 80Hz.

antrad wrote on 2021-01-05, 16:34:

But I tried several different games and benchmarks I can't really tell the difference, the movement and animations doesn't feel smoother.

Even going from 50 FPS to 60 FPS the difference is instantly noticeable and that is only 20% increase, so I was disappointed that when going from 60 FPS to 80 FPS in games I can't really tell the difference, even though that is even bigger increase of 33%.

Anyone had a similar experience, where 75-80 Hz/FPS is not really noticeable improvement from 60 ?

I think you would definitely see a difference at 80 Hz vs 60, if the game is really rendering at 80 fps. Just to double-check:

• are you sure that the games were using an 80 Hz video mode? Most monitors have an "info" section in their menu telling you what the current resolution and refresh rate are.
• Are you running a game that is not locked to a lower frame rate, like 30 fps or 60 fps? Many games that were developed on console first have FPS limiters.
• Are you running a game that consistently exceeds 80+ FPS on your computer? Benchmark the game with VSync off to make sure your computer is fast enough to give you 80 fps.
• Once you know you are running a game full-screen in an 80 Hz video mode at 80+ fps, turn VSync back on for the best looking experience.

If you've done all that, and it still doesn't seem smoother, your monitor might not have a nice enough LCD panel inside of it. All of those specs that monitor nerds obsess over determine how quickly the image can change on the panel, like the response time and gray-to-gray (g2g) transition time.

Personally I perceive significant improvements until about 70Hz and from then on it's just less tearing that I notice (with vsync off) (I have a 144Hz monitor). 70 should be a lot smoother than 60 though.

LightStruk wrote on 2021-01-05, 21:02:

I think you would definitely see a difference at 80 Hz vs 60, if the game is really rendering at 80 fps. Just to double-check: […]
Show full quote

antrad wrote on 2021-01-05, 16:34:

But I tried several different games and benchmarks I can't really tell the difference, the movement and animations doesn't feel smoother.

Even going from 50 FPS to 60 FPS the difference is instantly noticeable and that is only 20% increase, so I was disappointed that when going from 60 FPS to 80 FPS in games I can't really tell the difference, even though that is even bigger increase of 33%.

Anyone had a similar experience, where 75-80 Hz/FPS is not really noticeable improvement from 60 ?

I think you would definitely see a difference at 80 Hz vs 60, if the game is really rendering at 80 fps. Just to double-check:

• are you sure that the games were using an 80 Hz video mode? Most monitors have an "info" section in their menu telling you what the current resolution and refresh rate are.
• Are you running a game that is not locked to a lower frame rate, like 30 fps or 60 fps? Many games that were developed on console first have FPS limiters.
• Are you running a game that consistently exceeds 80+ FPS on your computer? Benchmark the game with VSync off to make sure your computer is fast enough to give you 80 fps.
• Once you know you are running a game full-screen in an 80 Hz video mode at 80+ fps, turn VSync back on for the best looking experience.

If you've done all that, and it still doesn't seem smoother, your monitor might not have a nice enough LCD panel inside of it. All of those specs that monitor nerds obsess over determine how quickly the image can change on the panel, like the response time and gray-to-gray (g2g) transition time.

Try vsynctester.com to test if your monitor really handles 80Hz without skipping frames .

LightStruk wrote on 2021-01-05, 21:02:

If you've done all that, and it still doesn't seem smoother, your monitor might not have a nice enough LCD panel inside of it. A […]
Show full quote

• are you sure that the games were using an 80 Hz video mode? Most monitors have an "info" section in their menu telling you what the current resolution and refresh rate are.
• Are you running a game that is not locked to a lower frame rate, like 30 fps or 60 fps? Many games that were developed on console first have FPS limiters.
• Are you running a game that consistently exceeds 80+ FPS on your computer? Benchmark the game with VSync off to make sure your computer is fast enough to give you 80 fps.
• Once you know you are running a game full-screen in an 80 Hz video mode at 80+ fps, turn VSync back on for the best looking experience.

If you've done all that, and it still doesn't seem smoother, your monitor might not have a nice enough LCD panel inside of it. All of those specs that monitor nerds obsess over determine how quickly the image can change on the panel, like the response time and gray-to-gray (g2g) transition time.

Yes, in my monitor menu it says it is running at 80 Hz. In games and benchmarks (Unigine Heaven on low) I get constant 80 FPS with vsync. On the monitor website testufo.com I also get 80 Hz.
I personally also suspect the problem is the panel and g2g or something causing motion blur which eliminates the full benefits of going from 60 to 80 FPS.
I think the only difference I might be noticing is the mouse feeling like it is a bit faster on desktop.

antrad wrote on 2021-01-06, 01:54:

LightStruk wrote on 2021-01-05, 21:02:

If you've done all that, and it still doesn't seem smoother, your monitor might not have a nice enough LCD panel inside of it. A […]
Show full quote

• are you sure that the games were using an 80 Hz video mode? Most monitors have an "info" section in their menu telling you what the current resolution and refresh rate are.
• Are you running a game that is not locked to a lower frame rate, like 30 fps or 60 fps? Many games that were developed on console first have FPS limiters.
• Are you running a game that consistently exceeds 80+ FPS on your computer? Benchmark the game with VSync off to make sure your computer is fast enough to give you 80 fps.
• Once you know you are running a game full-screen in an 80 Hz video mode at 80+ fps, turn VSync back on for the best looking experience.

If you've done all that, and it still doesn't seem smoother, your monitor might not have a nice enough LCD panel inside of it. All of those specs that monitor nerds obsess over determine how quickly the image can change on the panel, like the response time and gray-to-gray (g2g) transition time.

Yes, in my monitor menu it says it is running at 80 Hz. In games and benchmarks (Unigine Heaven on low) I get constant 80 FPS with vsync. On the monitor website testufo.com I also get 80 Hz.
I personally also suspect the problem is the panel and g2g or something causing motion blur which eliminates possible benefits of going from 60 to 80 FPS.

In my experience, vsynctester.com makes it very easy to spot frames dropped by the monitor, versus those dropped by the computer itself . I have been able to validate frame dropping and lack of it on multiple monitor and computer combinations, using multiple refresh rates, with vsynctester.com .

That said, I don't disagree that there may be something other than dropped frames at play in your case .

I don't think high refresh rate is all that important. I can see the difference between 60 frames and 120 frames on my TV, sure, and there is not reason not to use a higher refresh rate if it doesn't cost you anything.

That said, I think a lot of modern gamers get high refresh rate confused with low latency. Higher FPS feels better because the framebuffer time is shorter, not really because the extra frames of animation are really all that important. For me, playing with vsync off at 60hz feels 95% the same as playing with vsync off at 120hz.

This is especially true when you consider that the pixel response time on IPS displays isn't even close to 8ms. More like 30ms or more when measuring white-to-black.

darry wrote on 2021-01-06, 02:32:

In my experience, vsynctester.com makes it very easy to spot frames dropped by the monitor, versus those dropped by the computer itself . I have been able to validate frame dropping and lack of it on multiple monitor and computer combinations, using multiple refresh rates, with vsynctester.com .

That said, I don't disagree that there may be something other than dropped frames at play in your case .

I visited that website and "vsync" is grayish, I don't see it turn magenta or cyan, and it says it is 80 Hz.

antrad wrote on 2021-01-06, 22:29:

darry wrote on 2021-01-06, 02:32:

In my experience, vsynctester.com makes it very easy to spot frames dropped by the monitor, versus those dropped by the computer itself . I have been able to validate frame dropping and lack of it on multiple monitor and computer combinations, using multiple refresh rates, with vsynctester.com .

That said, I don't disagree that there may be something other than dropped frames at play in your case .

I visited that website and "vsync" is grayish, I don't see it turn magenta or cyan, and it says it is 80 Hz.

That looks like it is indeed working as it should, except for the lack of a perceived advantage . I don't know enough about visual perception and panel characteristics to offer a hypothesis as to why .

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-06, 04:52:

I don't think high refresh rate is all that important. I can see the difference between 60 frames and 120 frames on my TV, sure, and there is not reason not to use a higher refresh rate if it doesn't cost you anything.

That said, I think a lot of modern gamers get high refresh rate confused with low latency. Higher FPS feels better because the framebuffer time is shorter, not really because the extra frames of animation are really all that important. For me, playing with vsync off at 60hz feels 95% the same as playing with vsync off at 120hz.

This is especially true when you consider that the pixel response time on IPS displays isn't even close to 8ms. More like 30ms or more when measuring white-to-black.

IPS pixel response times are well below 8ms, especially for high refresh rate displays.

Latency isn't why you go for a 120hz display no (unless you're a pro gamer), it's only smoother motion.

mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-06, 04:52:

That said, I think a lot of modern gamers get high refresh rate confused with low latency. Higher FPS feels better because the framebuffer time is shorter, not really because the extra frames of animation are really all that important. For me, playing with vsync off at 60hz feels 95% the same as playing with vsync off at 120hz.

no offense but that's really, really weird. latency and refresh rates are two different important factors, and I don't think (may be wrong?) that high refresh/high latency screens are a thing anyway, but in any case refresh rate is extremely noticeable on my low latency screens. switching from 60Hz to 120Hz is spectacular. Not even talking about games, i'm able to tell i'm at a low refresh rate by the cursor movement smoothness (or lack thereof) in Windows only, and I definitely don't think I got superpowers 😀

I have a 75Hz freesync monitor and I also can't really tell the difference if something is running at 60fps or 75fps both just seem fine and very fluid to me.