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Reply 40 of 56, by ragefury32

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MrFlibble wrote on 2021-04-07, 20:18:
Using Google Images I found the pages of Florian Dietrich who created Battle of France and Battle over Germany: http://private.f […]
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Using Google Images I found the pages of Florian Dietrich who created Battle of France and Battle over Germany:
http://private.freepage.de/flodietrich/

Unfortunately, some files are missing as well, including the German version of Battle of France, I could only get the English translation add-on.

Edit: Found another obscure page, this one has a sim and a WORLD.FST analyser tool:
http://daniel.plassart.free.fr/icare.htm

Ah yes, looks like some of the assets were borrowed from Jose Sanchez’s Spanish Civil War sim...

Reply 41 of 56, by Jo22

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Domark.. Hm. Reminds me of MiG-29 Fulcrum combat/flight simulator..

https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/mig-29-fulcrum_

On DOS, there's a 16 colour version (German) and a 256c colour version (English), at least.

Oh, and there's also "MiG 29 Super Fulcrum", presented by Domark..

Not sure if this any helpful, though.

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    Fair use/fair dealing exception

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Reply 42 of 56, by ragefury32

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-04-09, 00:00:
Domark.. Hm. Reminds me of MiG-29 Fulcrum combat/flight simulator.. […]
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Domark.. Hm. Reminds me of MiG-29 Fulcrum combat/flight simulator..

https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/mig-29-fulcrum_

On DOS, there's a 16 colour version (German) and a 256c colour version (English), at least.

Oh, and there's also "MiG 29 Super Fulcrum", presented by Domark..

Not sure if this any helpful, though.

Yeah, that's a Simis product, so it's from the same developers as Flight Sim toolkit. This also applies for Confirmed Kill, Out-of-the-Sun, Flying Nightmares and SVGA Harrier. The same guys also did Absolute Zero and Terracide.

Reply 43 of 56, by MrFlibble

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That RiscWorld magazine I mentioned earlier has a separate page advertising the Flight Simulators CD which apparently included, among other things, three FST sims: F-18 Hornet, Mosquito Fire (this one is available from CJ's page I linked earlier) and Spitfire Fury. The HUD/instrument panel in the first two actually looks fairly similar to the ones in MiG-29 Fulcrum and MiG-29M Super Fulcrum.

Speaking of CDs, earlier I found mention of Viper Software's F-16: Operation Black Diamond on the ARI Action und Flight. 2 CD- ROMs für Windows 3.11. ARI DATA CD GmbH was a German software publisher, and they also included the shareware versions of Black Diamond, Berlin 1955 and Private Pilot on two other CDs that are in Hallfiry's collection (ARI 3D Games and ARI Game Pack Windows 95). That publisher also had a BBS/FTP but unfortunately it looks like the flight related downloads section was not archived by the Wayback Machine.

Ron Walker's Skyhawk Attack was featured on the GameHippo freeware game site.

Also I found this flight sim related site via the Wayback Machine which mentions "Jörg's Flight Sim Home Page various military flight sims including the 'Electronic Battlefield' series and Tornado." The page this links to was not preserved. I wonder if this was the same Jörg as the author of Joerg's Flight Sim?

Mic Healey's archives contain a lot of different versions of what appears a Masr-themed game, and an Elite tribute which happens to have a backup of the v1.47 FLY.EXE, but I have not tried it out yet with Jaguar.

BTW, I keep forgetting to ask: Adrian Brown's catalogue mentions several FST sims by Simis themselves, including two versions of Private Pilot. Am I right that these were included with the original FST release and the WWII add-on? (the FST CD contents from Mic Healey's site contains two sims: Private Pilot and Top Gun) Or was something else made available for download too?

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Reply 44 of 56, by MrFlibble

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For the record, I attempted to contact Florian Dietrich by email using the freepage.de address provided at his site but the mailer service returned my message back to me. I guess the address is no longer active.

BTW, here's one thing that makes me wonder. It is my understanding that the FST community was active throughout the 90s, with many sims created in 1994-1998. However what we found so far via the Wayback Machine dates back to 1999 at the earliest, which is at the start of a period when the WM has at present notoriously lacking preservation of many sites. Weren't there any earlier fan pages from 1996-1997? For example, when I was digging Warcraft user maps, I found literally dozens of GeoCities and other fan pages with a lot of Warcraft II content from 1996-1997.

On an unrelated note, here's an interesting remark from Ron Walker:

Yes, I was one of the few people to be a fully paid up member of the FST User Group. It use to cost £10 a year and you recieved […]
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Yes, I was one of the few people to be a fully paid up member of the FST
User Group. It use to cost £10 a year and you recieved a quarterly
newsletter and disk with FST stuff and sims on it. It only lasted a couple
of years as far as I know, but here in the UK it was great for me because
it put me in touch with fellow users I would not have met otherwise. Viper
softwares Ray Purvis was a key contributor, and he was very knowledgable. I
dont know if any of them are on the mailing list - if they are - hello!.
As far as I know, Domark enlisted a willing volunteer to help who organised
everything, but was then let down by Domark who didn't really want to offer
him much help or support, and hence, things eventually folded. The main
problem was, the FST User Group, gave Domark a full and ongoing bug list
and problems update, like the 'Fabled' Backwards flying enemy jets! Has
anyone on the list encountered this? If you made the enemy a jet , it
would often fly backwards, stop and hover, turn on a sixpence, and move at
mega speeds at a tangent! Domark just didn't want to know

Makes one wonder if anyone still has his content from the FST User Group.

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Reply 45 of 56, by cyclone3d

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Have you taken a look at all the other downloads available at:
https://planetmic.com/fstdp/fstdp01.htm

There are a ton of other files besides the ones on page linked to earlier.

Edit: Nevermind. I missed that that you noted that a bit later.

I saw on one page that the source code had apparently been released but the download links didn't work.

Found that somebody uploaded it to github:
https://github.com/SaruwatariKaito/Flight-Sim-Toolkit

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Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 46 of 56, by cyclone3d

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Found a couple more downloads on flightsim.com. Had to register to be able to download.

"Avions de la guerre d'Espagne" created wtih Flight Sim Toolkit. Requires 486 or better, 640x480, 256 colors VESA. This is a complete simulator with a variety of planes and scenarios. By Jose Sanchez.
(This is an older version of Spanish Civil War)

Filename
spanishw.zip
File size
1.43 MiB
Downloads
4 downloads
File license
Public domain

"Very detailed shapes of a MIG-15 plane"

Filename
fstmig15.zip
File size
39.94 KiB
Downloads
5 downloads
File license
Public domain

Gripen 0.96 (This should be the full working download)
"JAS 39 Gripen (version 0.96) made with FST. This is still an early beta of the Gripen simulator. It still lacks many vehicles and some shapes don't look as they will in the final version. In some aspects this version lacks features of earlier versions."

Filename
gripen.zip
File size
1.49 MiB
Downloads
3 downloads
File license
Public domain

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 47 of 56, by cyclone3d

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Ok... so I have been doing some more searching and here are some more pages I found. Don't have the time to go through everything but a lot of this should have downloadable files as well as pages with helpful information. I tried to go back through the previous posts to make sure I am not duplicating anything already linked.

http://web.archive.org/web/19961208081838/htt … et/fst/fst.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20000308164320/htt … om/FST-STUF.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20010419225651/htt … bbies/index.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I know some mcnett.org stuff was mentioned earlier, but hopefully this is helpful.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010424023431/htt … mcnett.org/fst/

http://web.archive.org/web/20010410235103/htt … rg/fst/rwalker/

Only a few files download from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000902205347/htt … st/ferret/sims/
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mcnet … t/ferret/sims/*
Higher up search, which has more files:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mcnet … rg/fst/ferret/*

Not everything was saved here, but looks like most files were:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010429174338/htt … org/fst/cactus/
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mcnet … rg/fst/cactus/*

All files under www.mcnett.org/fst/
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mcnett.org/fst/*

-----------------------------------------------------------

http://web.archive.org/web/19970430032558/htt … /download2.html
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bxsci … ce.edu/~kwanm/*

Nothing downloadable from this one:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010812020906/htt … gjo/Hippie.html

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 48 of 56, by MrFlibble

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-11, 23:42:
Found a couple more downloads on flightsim.com. Had to register to be able to download. […]
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Found a couple more downloads on flightsim.com. Had to register to be able to download.

"Avions de la guerre d'Espagne" created wtih Flight Sim Toolkit. Requires 486 or better, 640x480, 256 colors VESA. This is a complete simulator with a variety of planes and scenarios. By Jose Sanchez.
(This is an older version of Spanish Civil War)
spanishw.zip

"Very detailed shapes of a MIG-15 plane"
fstmig15.zip

Gripen 0.96 (This should be the full working download)
"JAS 39 Gripen (version 0.96) made with FST. This is still an early beta of the Gripen simulator. It still lacks many vehicles and some shapes don't look as they will in the final version. In some aspects this version lacks features of earlier versions."
gripen.zip

Thanks a lot!!! I was actually trying to find anything at flightsim.com but I guess I was looking at the wrong folder/category. Glad that Gripen 0.96 has been fully preserved! Also nice to have an earlier version of Spanish Civil War.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-12, 06:23:

Ok... so I have been doing some more searching and here are some more pages I found. Don't have the time to go through everything but a lot of this should have downloadable files as well as pages with helpful information. I tried to go back through the previous posts to make sure I am not duplicating anything already linked.

Good call, I was going to list the pages I have come across so far (but found no working downloads of sims) too. It's good to have these documented because it gives a better idea of the whole field, which so far remains pretty obscure.

Separately, I made what I hope is an accessible list of all sims found so far, which I posted here.

BTW, I was actually wrong, some pages do date back to 1996-1997, but preservation is still very fragmentary.

So here goes. My search started from this listing:
Open Directory - Games: Video Games: Genres: Simulation: Flight: Homebrew: Flight Sim Toolkit

From there, I found Bryan McNett's page and others. Here's all that contain links or information, with authors listed where applicable:

Last edited by MrFlibble on 2021-04-14, 12:48. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 49 of 56, by cyclone3d

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You're welcome. For flightsim.com I actually just did a search for Flight Sim Toolkit and then another for FST.

I tried looking through the categories but couldn't find anything that way either.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 50 of 56, by ragefury32

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-11, 22:47:
Have you taken a look at all the other downloads available at: https://planetmic.com/fstdp/fstdp01.htm […]
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Have you taken a look at all the other downloads available at:
https://planetmic.com/fstdp/fstdp01.htm

There are a ton of other files besides the ones on page linked to earlier.

Edit: Nevermind. I missed that that you noted that a bit later.

I saw on one page that the source code had apparently been released but the download links didn't work.

Found that somebody uploaded it to github:
https://github.com/SaruwatariKaito/Flight-Sim-Toolkit

Huh - I uploaded one of the earlier fly.exe sourcecode zipfiles (check a few entries back) from my archives. That was from a very old archive dating back to 2001 or so - I remembered compiling it on DJGPP or OpenWatcom "way back then".

Anyways, looks like Saruwatari Kaito has access to a later code release, since it came with the source code for the various GUI tools (except shape.exe, which is the most important one there). If you look at that version of shape.exe, it's a much later version than the retail releases, as it came with the facilities to work with bitmapping textures onto shapes. I played with that version back then but it didn’t really do the trick for me.

BFDA4787-DE88-4D95-AEFA-7B9F8CD3E0ED.jpeg
Filename
BFDA4787-DE88-4D95-AEFA-7B9F8CD3E0ED.jpeg
File size
210.98 KiB
Views
147 views
File comment
shape 2.13 with texture mapping support
File license
Public domain

The fly.exe binary inside the P1 folder (it contains the ingredients for a sim but is missing a world.fst to make it a sim) is quite the groundbreaker back then - it’s too bad that it came too late and without much support from Simis to make any inroads into the FST community. That version is V2.00 (Use Alt+T in any fly.exe to access the hidden diagnostics screen that tells you which version you have, followed by the FPS count, objects rendered, polygons/vertexes in scene, and etc), which is the first publicly available fly executable to contain support for palette texture mapping in 800x600x256 - I don’t think it came to us until at least ‘97 or 98, and by that time, both Redfly and Openfly was a thing, and significantly better (but incomplete) things. I did remember playing with something like this back then, but figuring out the rhyme, reason and logic behind the bitmapping was...challenging. Texture mapping requires you to map polygons to a 2D surface, and the vertex order matters - the tool doesn’t do a great job explaining how it works (in fact the help file was not updated), and there’s not a good demo that we can draw experience from.

The Fly engine can also only handle 256 colors in the palette, but if you subtract out some of the “special colors” that are reserved for lighting, explosions, gauges, etc, it’s more like 194 or so, and whatever tools you use will need to dither artwork (PCX v5) within those colors, which doesn’t work well on most art styles (muddy murky Quake colors or something like that). I guess that’s why no one really took up the mantle. It doesn’t look like Simis will give us a 16 bit fly binary, and no one explained how the texturing scheme worked so no one really cared.

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File comment
Alt+G gets you the secret text
File license
Public domain

If you want to see what bitmapped FST in 256 colors can potentially look like in a game, pull apart the Absolute Zero demo Simis made - it's actually an FST based demo.
Unzip, go to AZD/GAME and run AZGAME.EXE - it's a rail shooter demo using a forked version of FLY (v1.6FS) on the Ice moon of Europa. Note that for some reason the FST shapes (fsd), FST Texture Interposer (FTI) and the PCX files seem to be at least one version above what shape 2.13 supports, so I don’t think anyone was able to pull apart the art assets in the demo and learn how texture mapping worked with the FST Toolset. It was a bit of a lost opportunity, really.

https://archive.org/download/AbsoluteZero_1020/AZD.ZIP

Since it came out around the dawn of 3D hardware accelerators supporting 16 bit color, it looked a bit passé even back around its early-1996 release...but the simple barren ice planet look did let Simis get away with the palette limits.

Fun fact: you can modify the files in the Absolute Zero demo and turn it into a flight sim using its existing assets and fly v2.0. See world12.txt included on this post - copy the original world.fst to world.bak, download world12.txt from this posting, use it to overwrite the original world.fst, and then grab fly v2.00 from:

https://github.com/SaruwatariKaito/Flight-Sim … gine/P1/FLY.EXE

And just launch it via fly.exe -v
Fly around, see the colonies and mines of Europa, and see if you can figure out how to edit world.fst so it'll drop you onto the colony bug-hunt at the end of the demo...
(clue: look at the player paths)
Note: if you run it inside DOSBox you might want to throttle the ship down immediately to 30% and engage the speedbrakes, then raise it to 50 and fly around. The web.FMD flight model used in the demo might be a bit buggy on fast machines - my guess is probably some fixed point math issue from modern hardware coupled with game loop timing.

9A7E6065-938B-4EC5-A9A4-172D4180BC20.jpeg
Filename
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File size
139.54 KiB
Views
147 views
File comment
bitmapped Fly?
File license
Public domain

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  • Filename
    WORLD12.TXT
    File size
    184.34 KiB
    Downloads
    3 downloads
    File comment
    AZ Demo Sim?
    File license
    Public domain
Last edited by ragefury32 on 2021-04-13, 19:34. Edited 9 times in total.

Reply 51 of 56, by cyclone3d

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I just received the boxed copy of FST that I ordered.

It came with 2 sets of original 3.5" floppy disks, which I was not expecting.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
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AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 52 of 56, by MrFlibble

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ragefury32 wrote on 2021-04-12, 22:57:
If you want to see what bitmapped FST in 256 colors can potentially look like in a game, pull apart the Absolute Zero demo Simis […]
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If you want to see what bitmapped FST in 256 colors can potentially look like in a game, pull apart the Absolute Zero demo Simis made - it's actually an FST based demo.
Unzip, go to AZD/GAME and run AZGAME.EXE - it's a rail shooter demo using a forked version of FLY (v1.6FS) on the Ice moon of Europa. Note that for some reason the FST shapes (fsd), FST Texture Interposer (FTI) and the PCX files seem to be at least one version above what shape 2.13 supports, so I don’t think anyone was able to pull apart the art assets in the demo and learn how texture mapping worked with the FST Toolset. It was a bit of a lost opportunity, really.

https://archive.org/download/AbsoluteZero_1020/AZD.ZIP

Since it came out around the dawn of 3D hardware accelerators supporting 16 bit color, it looked a bit passé even back around its early-1996 release...but the simple barren ice planet look did let Simis get away with the palette limits.

Fun fact: you can modify the files in the Absolute Zero demo and turn it into a flight sim using its existing assets and fly v2.0. See world12.txt included on this post - copy the original world.fst to world.bak, download world12.txt from this posting, use it to overwrite the original world.fst, and then grab fly v2.00 from:

https://github.com/SaruwatariKaito/Flight-Sim … gine/P1/FLY.EXE

And just launch it via fly.exe -v
Fly around, see the colonies and mines of Europa, and see if you can figure out how to edit world.fst so it'll drop you onto the colony bug-hunt at the end of the demo...
(clue: look at the player paths)

As usual, great thanks for the interesting insights!!!

I was going to mention Absolute Zero because it popped up in a previous conversation with Rwolf at MobyGames. But so far I only played the later demo 1.0.4 of the game while this one you linked to is an alpha demo - I knew about it and kind of expected it to be closer to FST, because v1.0.4 has no obvious similarity in data formats.

The newsgroup talk I linked to earlier has a reply from Joseph Marullo (credited with In-Game 3D Models & World Construction in AZ) who responds to a question by Larry Brown:

Joe Marullo […]
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Joe Marullo

Yep. I did all of the in-game shapes for AZ (with a version of FST that
supported limited texture mapping).

At 04:01 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Joe,
> To my knowledge Forrest never put his Dune sim up to the public,
>and we haven't heard from him in quit awhile. Anyway it's nice to know
>that some people at Eidos haven't forgotten FST. So did you have a hand
>in Absolute Zero?
> Larry
>

On an unrelated note, I just found a ZIP with Wings of Thunder on this German shovelware CD. It's completely identical in content to the version I found earlier in unpacked form on a different CD, but the ZIP file itself is possibly the original thing that had been uploaded by the author.

Attachments

  • Filename
    WOT.ZIP
    File size
    653.99 KiB
    Downloads
    4 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

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Reply 53 of 56, by ragefury32

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MrFlibble wrote on 2021-04-13, 11:30:
As usual, great thanks for the interesting insights!!! […]
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As usual, great thanks for the interesting insights!!!

I was going to mention Absolute Zero because it popped up in a previous conversation with Rwolf at MobyGames. But so far I only played the later demo 1.0.4 of the game while this one you linked to is an alpha demo - I knew about it and kind of expected it to be closer to FST, because v1.0.4 has no obvious similarity in data formats.

The newsgroup talk I linked to earlier has a reply from Joseph Marullo (credited with In-Game 3D Models & World Construction in AZ) who responds to a question by Larry Brown:

Joe Marullo […]
Show full quote

Joe Marullo

Yep. I did all of the in-game shapes for AZ (with a version of FST that
supported limited texture mapping).

At 04:01 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Joe,
> To my knowledge Forrest never put his Dune sim up to the public,
>and we haven't heard from him in quit awhile. Anyway it's nice to know
>that some people at Eidos haven't forgotten FST. So did you have a hand
>in Absolute Zero?
> Larry
>

On an unrelated note, I just found a ZIP with Wings of Thunder on this German shovelware CD. It's completely identical in content to the version I found earlier in unpacked form on a different CD, but the ZIP file itself is possibly the original thing that had been uploaded by the author.

Eh, well, it's not an alpha demo as much as an early demo (likely rushed to build hype for the game) since it was featured in some demo CDs, like the June 1995 PC Gamer (I have a physical copy of it, BTW) -> https://archive.org/details/pcgamer-disc-7-june-1995

And no, that version of AZDemo is still very much FST underneath. Looks like the early demo is level 1 while the later one is level 2-1 and 2-2. If you use the standard UNIX/Linux userland "strings" utility to look for text (specifically anything that looks like a V1.x version number) you'll see that it returns version as V1.6FS AZ0.32 instead of V1.6FS AZ0.45 (like on the earlier demo). Also, if you look at the artwork directory and run it through the RSC files (Symbian resource library files?), you'll spot references to the usual file formats (FSD, FTI, PCX, FMD, FGD). It's just that the files are stored in a binary-only form that defies easy analysis. It looks like Absolute zero uses a scripting language called GDL (I think Jonathan Newth alluded to that in his CV) since there is a debug log on the TMP directory, and the GDL log seems to point to checkpointing and asset load issue behavior.

Ah yeah. Joe Marullo - he was a not-very-frequent contributor to the FST newsgroup back in the days. His name (along with Jonathan Newth) cropped up quite a bit. In fact, you might find his name mentioned in the Confirmed KIll 2 project that EIDOS killed.

Reply 54 of 56, by MrFlibble

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ragefury32 wrote on 2021-04-13, 18:55:

Eh, well, it's not an alpha demo as much as an early demo (likely rushed to build hype for the game) since it was featured in some demo CDs, like the June 1995 PC Gamer (I have a physical copy of it, BTW) -> https://archive.org/details/pcgamer-disc-7-june-1995

The readme refers to it as "an alpha version of the game", so I came to think of it in these terms.

ragefury32 wrote on 2021-04-13, 18:55:

And no, that version of AZDemo is still very much FST underneath. Looks like the early demo is level 1 while the later one is level 2-1 and 2-2. If you use the standard UNIX/Linux userland "strings" utility to look for text (specifically anything that looks like a V1.x version number) you'll see that it returns version as V1.6FS AZ0.32 instead of V1.6FS AZ0.45 (like on the earlier demo). Also, if you look at the artwork directory and run it through the RSC files (Symbian resource library files?), you'll spot references to the usual file formats (FSD, FTI, PCX, FMD, FGD). It's just that the files are stored in a binary-only form that defies easy analysis. It looks like Absolute zero uses a scripting language called GDL (I think Jonathan Newth alluded to that in his CV) since there is a debug log on the TMP directory, and the GDL log seems to point to checkpointing and asset load issue behavior.

Interesting! I did not look this deep into the second demo.

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Reply 55 of 56, by MrFlibble

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Here's a little something. I was checking the list of sim authors in Adrian E. Brown's catalogue, and noticed the name of Frankie Kam (personal page has not been preserved, sadly). I believe this is the same Frankie Kam who is an enthusiast of the Tornado flight sim and even obtained the source code for that game. A while ago he came to RGB Classic Games forums and made a thread about his Tornado mods. Because the profile page is missing in the Wayback Machine, I have not found out so far which FST sim(s) that Frankie made.

Maybe I should try to contact him and ask about those.

DOS Games Archive | Free open source games | RGB Classic Games

Reply 56 of 56, by MrFlibble

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Found the VGA version of Vietnam Flight Simulator by Viper Software. File name not original. It only has two missions while the SVGA version has three. Curiously, he VGA version has date stamps from several days later than the most recent files in the SVGA version, suggesting that this was released later, for backwards compatibility with slower machines (?).

Attachments

  • Filename
    VIETVGA.ZIP
    File size
    650.47 KiB
    Downloads
    1 download
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

DOS Games Archive | Free open source games | RGB Classic Games