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Reply 20 of 76, by ZellSF

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:00:

What you explicitly alleged was that someone "noticed something insignificant" and you further implied that because the demos were old you would have assumed them taken down regardless. I didn't exactly make a large leap.

Don't make any leaps. Don't pretend I wrote anything I didn't. I still think you aren't getting what I wrote in the first place though...

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:00:

The bottom line is this: you cannot in good faith say that this is not a glaring example of wokeism. The only question is whether you support it. And by virtue of your comments attempting to marginalize it, I would assume you do and are simply trying to downplay it.

I don't support it. But, the people who are vehemently opposed to it are showing they're equally obsessed about showing their own version of political correctness down peoples throat as the very people they're complaining about.

Reply 21 of 76, by Errius

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I'm sure lawyers are behind this, not ideologues.

This is from way back in 1991: https://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/08/news/rulin … es-it-mean.html

Women's rights advocates have hailed a recent Federal court ruling in Florida that the displaying of nude and pornographic pictures in the workplace can be a form of sexual harassment, and they say they hope it will prompt other employers to rid factories and construction sites of such pictures.

Last edited by Errius on 2021-10-06, 16:22. Edited 1 time in total.

“I like to dissect PCs. Don't you know I'm utterly insane?"

Reply 22 of 76, by Jasin Natael

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:15:
Don't make any leaps. Don't pretend I wrote anything I didn't. I still think you aren't getting what I wrote in the first place […]
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maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:00:

What you explicitly alleged was that someone "noticed something insignificant" and you further implied that because the demos were old you would have assumed them taken down regardless. I didn't exactly make a large leap.

Don't make any leaps. Don't pretend I wrote anything I didn't. I still think you aren't getting what I wrote in the first place though...

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:00:

The bottom line is this: you cannot in good faith say that this is not a glaring example of wokeism. The only question is whether you support it. And by virtue of your comments attempting to marginalize it, I would assume you do and are simply trying to downplay it.

I don't support it. But, the people who are vehemently opposed to it are showing they're equally obsessed about showing their own version of political correctness down peoples throat as the very people they're complaining about.

Calling out something for being what it is, is in no way the same as getting up on a soapbox and making a pitch.

I wasn't waving a flag, I can if anyone wants to hear it but this thread isn't mine and no one asked. But you are here trying to marginalize or suppress some one from expressing and opinion because you don't agree.

That my friend is a slippery slope.

Reply 23 of 76, by ZellSF

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:21:

Calling out something for being what it is, is in no way the same as getting up on a soapbox and making a pitch.

Creating a topic out of it, however is.

And when you're exaggerating, saying this is part of living in an "Orwellian novel", you're not calling out something for being what it is either.

Reply 24 of 76, by Jasin Natael

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We, in my opinion that is exactly what is happening. Early stages perhaps but if you pay attention then yeah that is exactly what is happening in the world. This is just one minor example.

Look here, my point is that EVERYONE'S opinions are valid and everyone should be able to speak up without fear of being lashed out and told to shut up because their voice doesn't count.

I don't have to agree with someone's point of view in order for their opinion to be valid. But just like Garret W lashing out because he didn't agree and basically told us all to shut up.

Well....sorry but freedom of speech doesn't work that way. Everyone gets a voice and a turn to speak. Even if their opinion is complete and utter shit.

Reply 25 of 76, by Big Pink

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:29:

saying this is part of living in an "Orwellian novel"

There is certainly a perception that those demos, as inconvenient details from the past, have been sent down the memory hole. That is Orwellian, even if right now we're not figuratively living in East Germany.

I thought IBM was born with the world

Reply 26 of 76, by ZellSF

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Actually, those demos are available in the places people are most likely to look for them in the first place. Very, very far from a memory hole.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:33:
We, in my opinion that is exactly what is happening. Early stages perhaps but if you pay attention then yeah that is exactly wha […]
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We, in my opinion that is exactly what is happening. Early stages perhaps but if you pay attention then yeah that is exactly what is happening in the world. This is just one minor example.

Look here, my point is that EVERYONE'S opinions are valid and everyone should be able to speak up without fear of being lashed out and told to shut up because their voice doesn't count.

I don't have to agree with someone's point of view in order for their opinion to be valid. But just like Garret W lashing out because he didn't agree and basically told us all to shut up.

Well....sorry but freedom of speech doesn't work that way. Everyone gets a voice and a turn to speak. Even if their opinion is complete and utter shit.

No one is opposing freedom of speech (telling people to shut up is demonstrating it). I'm guessing the mods will get around to that soon though.

Reply 27 of 76, by Namrok

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The thing about going "Oh, it's just one little example" is those examples add up. And often escalate.

I'd say we're lucky that we here are generally obsessed with digital artifacts, as those are easier to preserve. But with the state of copyright law being what it is, I wouldn't be shocked if efforts to protect these artifacts are dogged by the same sorts of legal threats Nintendo is always throwing at preservationist of it's heritage.

Reply 28 of 76, by ZellSF

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Namrok wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:48:

The thing about going "Oh, it's just one little example" is those examples add up. And often escalate.

And often don't. This being a perfect example.

Not all slopes are that slippery.

Reply 29 of 76, by Repo Man11

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I invite anyone who believes a wave of neopuritanism in the tech industry isn't taking place to visit ResetEra; but don't try and post there, as even mentioning these old demos would likely result in a ban.

Reply 31 of 76, by Tetrium

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Repo Man11 wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:21:

I invite anyone who believes a wave of neopuritanism in the tech industry isn't taking place to visit ResetEra; but don't try and post there, as even mentioning these old demos would likely result in a ban.

May I ask why?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 32 of 76, by Jasin Natael

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:57:
Namrok wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:48:

The thing about going "Oh, it's just one little example" is those examples add up. And often escalate.

And often don't. This being a perfect example.

Not all slopes are that slippery.

And they just as often do. As a matter of fact I would say this is a perfect example of things actually escalating.

Nvidia jumping on the bandwagon of not wanting to offend anyone. I would love to hear from a female that found these CGI renders offensive to begin with.
I'm sure someone somewhere at some point in time must have been shocked and appalled, but I doubt very much it was on a grand scale and I also doubt very much it ruined their life or even impacted it in ANY significant way.

It's just silly to remove them so Jensen can pat himself on his leather clad back.

I mean how about he remove his stupid leather jacket? Surely PETA and Sarah McLachlan is upset as hell by that......

Reply 33 of 76, by ZellSF

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:50:
ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:57:
Namrok wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:48:

The thing about going "Oh, it's just one little example" is those examples add up. And often escalate.

And often don't. This being a perfect example.

Not all slopes are that slippery.

And they just as often do. As a matter of fact I would say this is a perfect example of things actually escalating.

If this is the escalation then there's really zero need to worry at all. This is nothing.

Reply 34 of 76, by Jasin Natael

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:45:

Actually, those demos are available in the places people are most likely to look for them in the first place. Very, very far from a memory hole.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:33:
We, in my opinion that is exactly what is happening. Early stages perhaps but if you pay attention then yeah that is exactly wha […]
Show full quote

We, in my opinion that is exactly what is happening. Early stages perhaps but if you pay attention then yeah that is exactly what is happening in the world. This is just one minor example.

Look here, my point is that EVERYONE'S opinions are valid and everyone should be able to speak up without fear of being lashed out and told to shut up because their voice doesn't count.

I don't have to agree with someone's point of view in order for their opinion to be valid. But just like Garret W lashing out because he didn't agree and basically told us all to shut up.

Well....sorry but freedom of speech doesn't work that way. Everyone gets a voice and a turn to speak. Even if their opinion is complete and utter shit.

No one is opposing freedom of speech (telling people to shut up is demonstrating it). I'm guessing the mods will get around to that soon though.

Well telling people that disagree with you to be quiet because they are irrelevant is basically doing just that.
I invite a discussion, happy to discuss it but I don't go around telling people to be quiet and sit down just because I don't agree with their point of view.

Reply 35 of 76, by Jasin Natael

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:52:
Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:50:
ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 16:57:

And often don't. This being a perfect example.

Not all slopes are that slippery.

And they just as often do. As a matter of fact I would say this is a perfect example of things actually escalating.

If this is the escalation then there's really zero need to worry at all. This is nothing.

It isn't nothing though, that is the point.

If it were nothing then why did they bother to do it?

Reply 36 of 76, by ZellSF

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:53:

Well telling people that disagree with you to be quiet because they are irrelevant is basically doing just that.

I have no power to make anyone else be quiet, so if I told people they had to be quiet (I haven't), then it would just be a suggestion. I can't make a suggestion to someone under your "freedom of speech"? Who decides the line on where I've asked someone to shut up (you seem to think I have, even if I haven't)? Speaking of slippery slopes...

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:53:

If it were nothing then why did they bother to do it?

That others is doing something is not a good reason to follow.

Reply 37 of 76, by Jasin Natael

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ZellSF wrote on 2021-10-06, 18:13:
I have no power to make anyone else be quiet, so if I told people they had to be quiet (I haven't), then it would just be a sugg […]
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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:53:

Well telling people that disagree with you to be quiet because they are irrelevant is basically doing just that.

I have no power to make anyone else be quiet, so if I told people they had to be quiet (I haven't), then it would just be a suggestion. I can't make a suggestion to someone under your "freedom of speech"? Who decides the line on where I've asked someone to shut up (you seem to think I have, even if I haven't)? Speaking of slippery slopes...

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-10-06, 17:53:

If it were nothing then why did they bother to do it?

That others is doing something is not a good reason to follow.

I think that we actually agree on more than we disagree here.

I wasn't referring to actually telling anyone to "be quiet" or "shut up" I was really referencing your insinuation that anyone having the opinion that nvidia removing these videos as "invalid"

But reading back perhaps I read more into what you were saying than what you actually said. My apologies.

Reply 38 of 76, by zyzzle

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I applaud the effort to preserve these ephemeral digital artifacts. Rick Prelinger did the same thing with educational films, many or most of which are non-PC.

My opinion is that the whole lot of "cancel culture" people can go fuck themselves. They're trying to erase history -- and lamentably succeeding, which is much more harmful than than the alternative. Getting rid of something from the past because it "offends" a few overly-sensitive, brittle people is very much a slippery slope. Disney of course started the trend 40-50 years ago, and their minions have been giving it momentum since the verboden film SONG OF THE SOUTH was "erased" from existence.

I thank archive.org, especially, and people like Rick Prelinger for seeing past all the silliness and getting onto the important business of PRESERVATION of cultural artifacts. However, it won't be long before archive.org is shut down, I'm sure. They're run out of a church (!) near San Francisco, if I recall it correctly. They're small, but have been doing Big Work for 20 years now. All it will take is the ban hammer of one egotistical lawyer to shut them down-- and that's really frightening. Litigation has been ongoing for years already. Sucesssfully fought, for now.

Reply 39 of 76, by Repo Man11

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zyzzle wrote on 2021-10-07, 01:37:

I applaud the effort to preserve these ephemeral digital artifacts. Rick Prelinger did the same thing with educational films, many or most of which are non-PC.

My opinion is that the whole lot of "cancel culture" people can go fuck themselves. They're trying to erase history -- and lamentably succeeding, which is much more harmful than than the alternative. Getting rid of something from the past because it "offends" a few overly-sensitive, brittle people is very much a slippery slope. Disney of course started the trend 40-50 years ago, and their minions have been giving it momentum since the verboden film SONG OF THE SOUTH was "erased" from existence.

I thank archive.org, especially, and people like Rick Prelinger for seeing past all the silliness and getting onto the important business of PRESERVATION of cultural artifacts. However, it won't be long before archive.org is shut down, I'm sure. They're run out of a church (!) near San Francisco, if I recall it correctly. They're small, but have been doing Big Work for 20 years now. All it will take is the ban hammer of one egotistical lawyer to shut them down-- and that's really frightening. Litigation has been ongoing for years already. Sucesssfully fought, for now.

You make a good point; inspired by your post, I just donated $25.00 to them.