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Reply 40 of 55, by the3dfxdude

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DracoNihil wrote on 2021-12-23, 13:41:
Typing text into anything in Firefox also uses a ludicrous amount of CPU! And I can visually see this lagging as I type! […]
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Typing text into anything in Firefox also uses a ludicrous amount of CPU! And I can visually see this lagging as I type!

Moving the mouse around anywhere in Firefox's window ALSO uses up a ton of CPU time, even on a blank page!

As for the UI, what I'm talking about is the widgets not actually being supplied by the window manager anymore. Firefox is trying to handle absolutely everything with UI, I don't want that. The whole reason I have a window manager is so the window manager is handling that job! If I wanted programs to do their own thing then I'd just use my display server without any window manger at all! This is why I don't like GTK3 and ESPECIALLY GTK4!

I mean what on earth is with the scrollbars in 91.3.0 ESR? How is this even considered acceptable?
Screenshot_2021-12-23_07-36-00.png

There's not even any buttons, the thing is practically invisible! And whenever I click on the thing, it just instantly moves to where I clicked rather than up a section. Even scrolling with the mouse wheel scrolls WAY too far now.

While I can't say browsers are ever going to fix their CPU/mem overconsumption, let me tell you something that I did recently that makes me really happy:

I installed slackware-current (future 15.0), and then compiled the last version of XFCE 4.12 for GTK 2.0 (latest versions are GTK 3.0+). When I started XFCE 4.12... it came up quickly and felt very snappy! I have proper theming again! I was able to sync QT to the GTK theme! No stupid scroll bars and client side decorations! It works properly! There are good ol' widgets! Everything QT and GTK is consistent and looks good as long as the GTK apps are compiled for <=GTK2.0. Even compiled ungoogled chromium and it looks decent and is faster than firefox. The only odd duck on my desktop I cannot fix the look, and does other stupid things is firefox (I mean, the only way to fix the scroll bars is to use some kind of CSS? why? and then they'll break that too). It used to be that firefox was fast and good for privacy, but it is starting to look like ungoogled chromium might be the way to go -- except if Google cripples the plugin support, which they are saying -- Argh. I think I'll just start using lynx if they ruin ad/script blocking.

Reply 41 of 55, by Big Pink

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386SX wrote on 2021-12-23, 12:14:

As thought lately if I had a 70's TV in the 1995 I could still watch TV channels

Back then hardly anyone could have afforded to buy a new TV every five years chasing new broadcasting standards (the FCC would not look kindly upon 'move fast and break reception'). That's what caught Steve Ballmer offguard about the iPhone - Apple's innovation was a financing plan. Cheap credit drives disposable electronics.

I thought IBM was born with the world

Reply 42 of 55, by 386SX

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Big Pink wrote on 2021-12-23, 22:14:
386SX wrote on 2021-12-23, 12:14:

As thought lately if I had a 70's TV in the 1995 I could still watch TV channels

Back then hardly anyone could have afforded to buy a new TV every five years chasing new broadcasting standards (the FCC would not look kindly upon 'move fast and break reception'). That's what caught Steve Ballmer offguard about the iPhone - Apple's innovation was a financing plan. Cheap credit drives disposable electronics.

Sometimes I think nowdays considered all the costs, people might afford even less than those years at least in some countries but still changing eletronic devices as much as buying a newspaper. I can see everyday people leaving stores with huge TVs along with few things to eat. Some save money on food quality and spend them on eletronic devices.

Reply 43 of 55, by Caluser2000

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the3dfxdude wrote on 2021-12-23, 17:26:
Firefox 68 is an esr series, with the last patch from August 2020. Many linux distros still make that version available for use. […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2021-12-23, 11:15:

You do realize that the current version is 95 and 68 is from July 2019 right? 52 is even worse, that must be from, what, early 2017? I mean, how can you even judge the software's current state based on a release from almost 3 years ago?

Firefox 68 is an esr series, with the last patch from August 2020. Many linux distros still make that version available for use. So not really all that old, and quite strange to get broken so quickly, when web standards don't just go away after each version. Even at my company, they offer that 68 version on their systems, only to find that many of the corporate web apps stopped working over the last few months.

Firefox 52 is significant only because that was kind of before the time they started ruining the UI and plugin support. That is when they lost many users to forks or chrome.

No we absolutely can judge this browser's current state (even on 91+) due to consistently poor decision making. Even version 91 is actually pretty terrible despite getting fixes. One step forward, two steps back. Chrome is not completely immune to criticism, or has its own problems, actually.

Well this P4 3.2GHz HT system updated to version 95 with out ny issue so I call bull shit on this post.

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There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 44 of 55, by the3dfxdude

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-12-24, 22:28:

Well this P4 3.2GHz HT system updated to version 95 with out ny issue so I call bull shit on this post.

That's nice, you're keeping that speedy old machine going and running with the firefox updated. Got some running latest firefox too, actually some slower machines, some faster. If you want to call out what you see is a positive trend in firefox releases let us know.

Reply 45 of 55, by DracoNihil

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The only reason I bother to keep Firefox updated is because it's tiring having to fake out the User Agent string just to continue accessing whatever website that would otherwise give me a garbage page on purpose telling me to "update my browser".

But this is seriously ridiculous, especially the scrollbar and UI widgets situation, and the 100% CPU usage for no reason every 10 seconds of not even doing anything!

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Reply 46 of 55, by Caluser2000

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the3dfxdude wrote on 2021-12-25, 00:53:
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-12-24, 22:28:

Well this P4 3.2GHz HT system updated to version 95 with out ny issue so I call bull shit on this post.

That's nice, you're keeping that speedy old machine going and running with the firefox updated. Got some running latest firefox too, actually some slower machines, some faster. If you want to call out what you see is a positive trend in firefox releases let us know.

Will It's functioning as it should do?

Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2021-12-25, 16:05. Edited 1 time in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 47 of 55, by 1541

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DracoNihil wrote on 2021-12-25, 07:56:

[...], and the 100% CPU usage for no reason every 10 seconds of not even doing anything!

This could correlate with this known issue:
https://www.servethehome.com/firefox-is-eatin … -how-to-fix-it/

💾 Windows 9x resources (drivers, tools, NUSB,...) 💾

Reply 48 of 55, by DracoNihil

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1541 wrote on 2021-12-25, 08:42:

This could correlate with this known issue:
https://www.servethehome.com/firefox-is-eatin … -how-to-fix-it/

No, I don't think it's related to that because I disable a lot of the cacheing and made Firefox only save my session when I exit, I don't notice any writes instigated by Firefox when this suddenly jump in CPU usage happens.

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Reply 49 of 55, by Caluser2000

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DracoNihil wrote on 2021-12-25, 12:18:
1541 wrote on 2021-12-25, 08:42:

This could correlate with this known issue:
https://www.servethehome.com/firefox-is-eatin … -how-to-fix-it/

No, I don't think it's related to that because I disable a lot of the cacheing and made Firefox only save my session when I exit, I don't notice any writes instigated by Firefox when this suddenly jump in CPU usage happens.

You give us absolutely no detail on your system specs or the operating system you are running.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 50 of 55, by the3dfxdude

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-12-25, 08:34:

Will It's functioning as it should do?

The topic of this thread is concerning progression of firefox releases that have changed things to be considered worse than the previous. That "it's functioning as it should" does not disprove peoples points on what they did not want in the browser. That mozilla inherited a browser code base from their predecessor teams that put together a functioning browser, could have kept to their sole mission of providing a browser as it should work would be very nice. However, this is the functionality you are approving of, since you do not have any issue.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommendations-firefox
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/personal … recommendations
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox- … r-welcome-pages
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-suggest
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/customiz … ur-new-tab-page

What will they try to do next? There is a motivation to the OP's question.

Reply 51 of 55, by Caluser2000

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the3dfxdude wrote on 2021-12-25, 17:28:
The topic of this thread is concerning progression of firefox releases that have changed things to be considered worse than the […]
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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-12-25, 08:34:

Will It's functioning as it should do?

The topic of this thread is concerning progression of firefox releases that have changed things to be considered worse than the previous. That "it's functioning as it should" does not disprove peoples points on what they did not want in the browser. That mozilla inherited a browser code base from their predecessor teams that put together a functioning browser, could have kept to their sole mission of providing a browser as it should work would be very nice. However, this is the functionality you are approving of, since you do not have any issue.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommendations-firefox
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/personal … recommendations
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox- … r-welcome-pages
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-suggest
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/customiz … ur-new-tab-page

What will they try to do next? There is a motivation to the OP's question.

I'm having no issues with this system so knowing requirement and OS the OP is running may help. IT should be the first question asked when trying to solve software issues period. As an IT person you really do not have a clue dude.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 52 of 55, by the3dfxdude

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-12-25, 17:47:

I'm having no issues with this system so knowing requirement and OS the OP is running may help. IT should be the first question asked when trying to solve software issues period. As an IT person you really do not have a clue dude.

So your intention is to help the OP? Your first reply to this thread was a statement about you can run firefox, and not asking about system specs to understand if there is any way to help. You have not asked one question so far. Maybe, try being nice and say something like "Can you please share your OS and system specs?"

I mean it's very noble to help, but being bombastic and making passive statements in your replies does not help people understand what you're are doing. If I made it my intention to debug his situation, I would ask directly and start a process for it if I was interested. I have not asked a question as I am not interested in working IT for the person. But if you want to make a difference and help with his problems go for it. I like threads that have people help out.

Reply 53 of 55, by DracoNihil

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-12-25, 16:17:

You give us absolutely no detail on your system specs or the operating system you are running.

My specs don't really have anything to do with the issue on hand, as I said these are problems I've noticed happening overtime, well before I even moved to Linux. And they've never had any solutions other than "don't upgrade Firefox" or switching to a fork that happened many, many years ago and hope it has enough support for the "modern web" without breaking under the bloat.

But if you insist:
Linux 5.15.11
Mainboard: NUC6i7KYB
CPU: Intel Core i7-6770HQ "Skylake" CPU @ 2.60GHz
GPU: Intel Iris Pro 580 @ 950 MHz
RAM: 32 GB (16x2) Kingston 9905663-007.A00G DDR4-2133 SODIMM
SSD: 500 GB Crucial CT500MX500SSD4 M.2 SATA 3.3, 6.0 Gb/s
Filesystem: ext4
Mesa 21.3.2
OpenGL 4.6 (both Compatability and Core Profile contexts are 4.6)
Vulkan 1.2.195

Is that enough information? My entire system specs are visible on my "About" section on my Twitch channel.

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Reply 54 of 55, by shamino

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DracoNihil wrote on 2021-12-25, 07:56:

The only reason I bother to keep Firefox updated is because it's tiring having to fake out the User Agent string just to continue accessing whatever website that would otherwise give me a garbage page on purpose telling me to "update my browser".

I have a pet peeve with web sites that try to enforce "system requirements."

A unique one that I particularly hate is how reddit comes up on my phone, using the DuckDuckGo browser. Whenever I follow a link that points to reddit, it always prompts me whether to install their "app", or to "continue in Chrome". Huh? Neither, just show the page in this browser! Took me a while to figure out that "current browser" is what the "Chrome" button actually means. Which it shouldn't be asking in the first place, I'm here in this browser, so just show the page already. Do I need a dedicated "app" for every web site? That kind of undermines the concept of how the web is supposed to work.

I can forgive version blocking a little more with bank sites which might have some legal liability reason for it, but only if it's for an actual specific reason affecting security of the account, and not because they're being feature happy or think that I've hired them to give me general IT advice.
Chase is the most picky about browsers of all the banks I've dealt with (credit card), and I've had other technical/security-inspired frustrations with them as well. They are on the bubble for me as "most likely to get closed" since every other lender manages to be easier to deal with than they are.
I used to have a Merrick account, most people complained that their web site was "ugly" or something because it was too simple and old fashioned. I thought it was great. Simple and efficient. I don't need animated menus, I don't want to watch a cartoon or read splash screens of political/social propaganda from the bank directors, I just want to manage my account. Keep it simple and professional, you shouldn't need fancy browser features on a bank site as long as the encryption is still good.

Reply 55 of 55, by Big Pink

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shamino wrote on 2021-12-26, 12:59:

I don't need animated menus

My bank does this too and I should bill them for the time wasted. There is no reason I should have to wait any time at all for a menu to slide into place everytime I click it. What's the old tale about computers in the 60s doing calculations too fast and the suits not believing it was really working unless it had a small pause before displaying the result?

I thought IBM was born with the world