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First post, by BEEN_Nath_58

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The Government in my country has ordered VPN operators for user data.
https://www.wired.com/story/india-vpn-data-law/

Data breeches have occurred many times with VPN, but this time the data has been asked by the Government. I have no idea how all these work out in other nations, probably their intelligence gets the data somehow but a direct "do or leave" order doesn't seem good, mainly because many services will have to leave to be. What's your take on this?

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 1 of 14, by cyclone3d

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Where are most of the computer and phone scammers located?

If it were up to me, I would be going after said scum and locking them away in a deep dark hole and throw away the key.

That being said, the YouTube videos of people wasting the scammers' time is very entertaining.

As for VPN services in India, if I were a VPN operator I would stay as-is as long as possible and then give India the double deuce and slam the door on the way out.

Oh yeah, where did Boeing outsource the 737 max programming to? Oh yeah that's right.. India. What a cluster that turned into.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
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Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 2 of 14, by Errius

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The 737 MAX is a good plane, the problem was pilots in certain countries who failed to RTFM. (They saw '737' in the name and assumed it worked the same as all the other 737s, which it doesn't.)

Anyway, VPNs both solve problems and cause them. Caution is advised. I would never trust a free VPN for any security-sensitive purpose, and even paid VPNs may not be secure depending on which countries host their servers.

There's also the problem that a VPN exposes your computer directly to the internet, so all your machine's local ports are open to anyone who knows the VPN address. In effect, it's like returning to the bad old days before home networks and routers, when most people were on modems and were getting their ports constantly scanned by bots and hackers. (Though modern Windows has a software firewall, so it's not quite as bad as Windows 98/2000 days. Who remembers ZoneAlarm?)

“I like to dissect PCs. Don't you know I'm utterly insane?"

Reply 6 of 14, by BEEN_Nath_58

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Scammers are all fine, we have to deal with them more. I won't last a day without anyone DMing on Facebook or messenger apps to follow the link to a certain product or money making procedures. For older people, they disguise as "bank workers", reporting an issue with the account. Most older people scam and rob the money in that way.

The messenger scams, as to what I believe, is less effective in my region, although there are cases. Still I don't see much tech support scam here, it's mostly fake bank officials or fake money making opportunities.

Coming to the VPN thing, the last time a family member was scammed was by the affected providing his own data to that scammer. It happened through online transaction, the scammer in this case had nothing to steal by himself, he just got it. They made sure the account was never reached and transferred the money elsewhere.

So I am not quite sure banning VPN would stop scamming, in my experience, inside the country they rarely use VPN for scamming.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 7 of 14, by cyclone3d

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What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to send whatever caller ID they want to.

If you have a business and want the callback number to show the same for all outgoing calls, then there should have to be a special procedure to get that allowed.

Otherwise the caller ID showing up should always be what the actual number is.

I've been saying this for years but the phone companies could care less.

Even getting a record of the real phone numbers being used requires a warrant/subpoena to get the phone companies to turn over said information.

They claim to want to stop scams but do almost nothing of real value to do so.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 8 of 14, by BEEN_Nath_58

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cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-08, 19:30:
What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to se […]
Show full quote

What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to send whatever caller ID they want to.

If you have a business and want the callback number to show the same for all outgoing calls, then there should have to be a special procedure to get that allowed.

Otherwise the caller ID showing up should always be what the actual number is.

I've been saying this for years but the phone companies could care less.

Even getting a record of the real phone numbers being used requires a warrant/subpoena to get the phone companies to turn over said information.

They claim to want to stop scams but do almost nothing of real value to do so.

It's most probably they are trying to control something else, instead of the scams. PUBG Mobile was most popular game in the entire country, which was banned with reason being "security issues". Apparently they found data was being collected China (which was apparent) and they banned it which was reasonable. For this VPN ban, there hasn't been a reason out yet, and hopefully they come up with an answer to it.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 9 of 14, by The Serpent Rider

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Hoping wrote:

Can Tor browser be usefull for privacy? Or it may be a problem in some countries?

Yes and no. Some Tor nodes are suspected to be hosted by various alphabet boiz.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote:

The Government in my country has ordered VPN operators for user data.

Good luck to them. Foreign VPN companies most likely won't listen to Indian government demands. But nothing is really stopping you from using foreign VPN.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2022-05-09, 17:12. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 10 of 14, by Cuttoon

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No offense, but the direction India is going the last years, politically, well, if it were a smaller place I'd just say gtfo, but with a place of over a bln people... uhm...
No idea how VPN deals work in your country. Does the state even have to know about them, if you use some foreign service?

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-08, 15:50:
Where are most of the computer and phone scammers located? […]
Show full quote

Where are most of the computer and phone scammers located?

If it were up to me, I would be going after said scum and locking them away in a deep dark hole and throw away the key.

That being said, the YouTube videos of people wasting the scammers' time is very entertaining.

As for VPN services in India, if I were a VPN operator I would stay as-is as long as possible and then give India the double deuce and slam the door on the way out.

Oh yeah, where did Boeing outsource the 737 max programming to? Oh yeah that's right.. India. What a cluster that turned into.

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-08, 19:30:
What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to se […]
Show full quote

What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to send whatever caller ID they want to.

If you have a business and want the callback number to show the same for all outgoing calls, then there should have to be a special procedure to get that allowed.

Otherwise the caller ID showing up should always be what the actual number is.

I've been saying this for years but the phone companies could care less.

Even getting a record of the real phone numbers being used requires a warrant/subpoena to get the phone companies to turn over said information.

They claim to want to stop scams but do almost nothing of real value to do so.

Not the topic, but hell, those people sure piss me off big time. Just assuming I'm using MS Windows is offensive enough, but...

I have a landline phone that's basically "work" but the number is in no registry and doesn't ring very often. I'm rather obliged to pick it up, unknown IDs included. I really value my privacy, otherwise. Three comments:

- That the problem persists is a failure of international law. Any sub network that does those things should just be cut off the routing system, period. It should be possible to at least trace that down to a minor grid. And if not handled by means of white phosphorous or something appropriate, at least retire that network. If that means a whole country, I don't bloody care.

- It's a failure of my country since national telephone grids are under pretty heavy regulation. No free domestic caller IDs for just anyone, even calls from the outside. It's companies who don't care and probably politics who don't understand. To put this in perspective for Americans and other somehow culturally challenged nations in the first world: Even legitimate B2C cold calls are illegal in this country.

- I admit that I've gotten used to just improvise the most offensive thing that comes to mind with those calls. Stuff in way too poor a taste to be quoted here or anywhere. Whatever gets these people to kill themselves, I shall consider it a public service. Then again, of course I feel shitty about that since it's perfectly possible that some of them don't even completely understand what they're doing, just working down some flowchart in a low paying call center job and out of sheer need. Well, please get a grip, I can't really help it.

I like jumpers.

Reply 11 of 14, by rmay635703

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What is sad is 99% of the scammers are in corporate buildings operating just like any other business.

Their locations are all known and quite centralized for “illicit “ operations

Heck some US facing hackers have got their locations and security feeds with simple tools.

3 well placed bombs and 90% of the worldwide scams would stop immediately until they could regroup.

In terms of the US cutting a single feed going toward the pacific would eliminate most of the scams. Sadly companies love cheap call centers and offshoring private data because old people loosing their life’s savings doesn’t matter

Everybody knows who they are but seem to do nothing about them

Last edited by rmay635703 on 2022-05-09, 17:09. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 12 of 14, by Cuttoon

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rmay635703 wrote on 2022-05-09, 17:01:
What is sad is 99% of the scammers are in corporate buildings operating just like any other business. […]
Show full quote

What is sad is 99% of the scammers are in corporate buildings operating just like any other business.

Their locations are all known and quite centralized for “illicit “ operations

Heck some US facing hackers have got their locations and security feeds with simple tools.

3 well placed bombs and 90% of the worldwide scams would stop immediately until they could regroup.

In terms of the US cutting a single feed going toward the pacific would eliminate most of the scams.

Everybody knows who they are but seem to do nothing about them

Disclaimer, anything I say here in conflict with basic human rights and dignity is not meant seriously and just letting off some steam, but:

Where is that predator drone when you need it?

I like jumpers.

Reply 13 of 14, by BEEN_Nath_58

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cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-08, 19:30:
What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to se […]
Show full quote

What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to send whatever caller ID they want to.

If you have a business and want the callback number to show the same for all outgoing calls, then there should have to be a special procedure to get that allowed.

Otherwise the caller ID showing up should always be what the actual number is.

I've been saying this for years but the phone companies could care less.

Even getting a record of the real phone numbers being used requires a warrant/subpoena to get the phone companies to turn over said information.

They claim to want to stop scams but do almost nothing of real value to do so.

Taking care of VOIP wouldn't fix 20% of the issue. They usually don't use VOIP either. Most of their numbers are from SIM cards which were no longer used by people, and this was a common practise in the country, I never saw this needing documentation either. My father, who works at a university, had a secondary SIM from here too, they could be bought for a small price (less than a dollar, and considering how we save money). Now these operations are illegal, but I am pretty sure scammers have enough number IDs for years.

In 2017, one such scam office was busted by the local police department (in the capital?). Probably there will be a lot others in a 1sq km. range as well.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-09, 16:49:
No offense, but the direction India is going the last years, politically, well, if it were a smaller place I'd just say gtfo, bu […]
Show full quote

No offense, but the direction India is going the last years, politically, well, if it were a smaller place I'd just say gtfo, but with a place of over a bln people... uhm...
No idea how VPN deals work in your country. Does the state even have to know about them, if you use some foreign service?

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-08, 15:50:
Where are most of the computer and phone scammers located? […]
Show full quote

Where are most of the computer and phone scammers located?

If it were up to me, I would be going after said scum and locking them away in a deep dark hole and throw away the key.

That being said, the YouTube videos of people wasting the scammers' time is very entertaining.

As for VPN services in India, if I were a VPN operator I would stay as-is as long as possible and then give India the double deuce and slam the door on the way out.

Oh yeah, where did Boeing outsource the 737 max programming to? Oh yeah that's right.. India. What a cluster that turned into.

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-08, 19:30:
What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to se […]
Show full quote

What needs to be done as far as the phone scammers is that the phone companies should stop allowing the VOIP phone systems to send whatever caller ID they want to.

If you have a business and want the callback number to show the same for all outgoing calls, then there should have to be a special procedure to get that allowed.

Otherwise the caller ID showing up should always be what the actual number is.

I've been saying this for years but the phone companies could care less.

Even getting a record of the real phone numbers being used requires a warrant/subpoena to get the phone companies to turn over said information.

They claim to want to stop scams but do almost nothing of real value to do so.

Not the topic, but hell, those people sure piss me off big time. Just assuming I'm using MS Windows is offensive enough, but...

I have a landline phone that's basically "work" but the number is in no registry and doesn't ring very often. I'm rather obliged to pick it up, unknown IDs included. I really value my privacy, otherwise. Three comments:

- That the problem persists is a failure of international law. Any sub network that does those things should just be cut off the routing system, period. It should be possible to at least trace that down to a minor grid. And if not handled by means of white phosphorous or something appropriate, at least retire that network. If that means a whole country, I don't bloody care.

- It's a failure of my country since national telephone grids are under pretty heavy regulation. No free domestic caller IDs for just anyone, even calls from the outside. It's companies who don't care and probably politics who don't understand. To put this in perspective for Americans and other somehow culturally challenged nations in the first world: Even legitimate B2C cold calls are illegal in this country.

- I admit that I've gotten used to just improvise the most offensive thing that comes to mind with those calls. Stuff in way too poor a taste to be quoted here or anywhere. Whatever gets these people to kill themselves, I shall consider it a public service. Then again, of course I feel shitty about that since it's perfectly possible that some of them don't even completely understand what they're doing, just working down some flowchart in a low paying call center job and out of sheer need. Well, please get a grip, I can't really help it.

Regarding B2C calls, I used to get a daily calls from educational institutes who used to lure you for joining them. They would dictate their services over the call and many companies would pressurize the parent/student to join it (pre-judging that the child can't continue successfully without them). Anyways many would listen and join them, and most companies would fix the fees to be around 5x more than their average salary. They had developed the strategy to de-confide people and win. And the government never looks into these.

rmay635703 wrote on 2022-05-09, 17:01:
What is sad is 99% of the scammers are in corporate buildings operating just like any other business. […]
Show full quote

What is sad is 99% of the scammers are in corporate buildings operating just like any other business.

Their locations are all known and quite centralized for “illicit “ operations

Heck some US facing hackers have got their locations and security feeds with simple tools.

3 well placed bombs and 90% of the worldwide scams would stop immediately until they could regroup.

In terms of the US cutting a single feed going toward the pacific would eliminate most of the scams. Sadly companies love cheap call centers and offshoring private data because old people loosing their life’s savings doesn’t matter

Everybody knows who they are but seem to do nothing about them

Probably I know what happens if the Govt. here "decides" to do it. The public roars asking to create employment opportunities first, to handle the fights among communities, cleaning the cities or rivers and much more. Things could definitely be handled better if they were done in a more cyclic manner, or if they had 100th of the US military budget.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 14 of 14, by Errius

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Just to be clear, VOGONS does not advocate terroristic violence against anyone not involved in the Abandonwarez scene.

“I like to dissect PCs. Don't you know I'm utterly insane?"