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Reply 80 of 232, by Shagittarius

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I don't have much energy today but I feel like contributing. I'm going to mention some things I don't like in a short style, hopefully it will contain enough for people to recognize what I'm saying.

Open World Design: Or as I like to call it, lazy game design. To me video games are a series of challenges, the more meticulously you craft those challenges for me the happier I am. I'm not saying everything needs to be a corridor shooter but lets not forget that games at their core are about utilizing the play mechanics to overcome all the different scenarios a game throws at you. Open world design is a less tightly controller experience which is sold under the guise of player agency or emergent gameplay. I don't know why all the sudden everyone has to feel empowered and like they are somehow creative for playing a video game, I prefer that I just exploit mechanics to win.

Free to Play: Be honest with me, give me the complete game and tell me what price I'm going to pay for it. It's hard for me to complain because I never actually play these games, I'm just miffed that they exist.

Dark Souls: I've complained about this in other threads. Clunky game mechanics and required memorization are terrible gameplay elements. Throw in waste of time punishment for failure and this is a turd sunday.

Collect-a-thon: Modern games that have dozens of different collectables, I try my best to ignore them and focus on the gameplay but in the back of your mind you are always worried you might be missing out on something important.

Reply 81 of 232, by appiah4

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Here's my 2c:

Games as a Service
Open World/Sandbox
Filler/Bloat
Lootbox/Microtransactions
Season Pass (particularly before the game even launched)
ETFs
DRM
Remake/Remasters
Day 1 DLC/Patch
Early Access
Episodic Games
Ultra Mega Super Duper Special Digital Editions
24 Hour Download Times
Annual Franchise Refreshes
Unskippable cutscenes
AI from 1970s
Escort Missions
Cinematic Trailers

I guess that's enough hate for a day..

Last edited by appiah4 on 2022-06-21, 14:29. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 82 of 232, by Tetrium

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gerry wrote on 2022-06-21, 13:53:
an interesting point, what is the difference between doing something for fun and doing something because you feel 'compelled' to […]
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Namrok wrote on 2022-06-21, 12:48:

One thing I constantly struggle with in games made in the last 10-15 years, is how much they've conflated compulsive with fun. But then that gets me thinking about how I can even objectively define one from the other anyways?

an interesting point, what is the difference between doing something for fun and doing something because you feel 'compelled' to, like an addiction

both, i think, have some similarity in terms of the brains reward systems but perhaps the fun one is defined as it bought you pleasure (and is freely chosen) rather than it relieved the compulsive urge (and you felt you had to do it)

perhaps the marketers have realised that compulsion is a surer method of getting time & clicks (which means money) than 'fun', which may be appreciated but may also be more freely let go of in favor of other activities, and so have gone after that aspect of games in place of trying to be 'only' fun

Creating easily copypasted addiction is (lootboxes are real easy to make once you got them running. Level design is not, it keeps taking great effort to design new good levels instead of just entering some items and giving it a percentage droprate).

And IRL it could be compared to adding heroine to sugar (or whatever edible product), this will definitely help the sales but not because the sugar is of a superior quality but because of abuse of addictive mechanics.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:16:

Collect-a-thon: Modern games that have dozens of different collectables, I try my best to ignore them and focus on the gameplay but in the back of your mind you are always worried you might be missing out on something important.

I'm avoiding free2play completely nowdays. Just give me the full game up front and don't bother me with that marketing bs.

The latter what you're describing is known as FOMO: Fear Of Missing Out, which is one of the mechanics scummy companies use to artificially make you spend more money and which is totally not designed to make you have a better time.

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Reply 83 of 232, by Tetrium

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:27:
Remake/Remasters Escort Missions Ccinematic Trailers Open World/Sandbox […]
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Remake/Remasters
Escort Missions
Ccinematic Trailers
Open World/Sandbox

The rest I either agree with you or am impartial about, but I can't really see anything inherently bad with these ones.

Remasters can actually be really well designed, though I think we both dislike the quick cashgrabs that are often associated with remasters.
Escort missions, try Escort Duty in DRG, it's great!
Cinematic trailers, not sure what you mean with this tbh. I guess it's why you hate modern games?
Open World, well first thing that comes to mind is Skyrim and I think that game is really great! Especially from a modders perspective 😋
I'm impartial to sandbox.

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Reply 84 of 232, by canthearu

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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:16:

I don't have much energy today but I feel like contributing. I'm going to mention some things I don't like in a short style, hopefully it will contain enough for people to recognize what I'm saying.

Open World Design: Or as I like to call it, lazy game design. To me video games are a series of challenges, the more meticulously you craft those challenges for me the happier I am. I'm not saying everything needs to be a corridor shooter but lets not forget that games at their core are about utilizing the play mechanics to overcome all the different scenarios a game throws at you. Open world design is a less tightly controller experience which is sold under the guise of player agency or emergent gameplay. I don't know why all the sudden everyone has to feel empowered and like they are somehow creative for playing a video game, I prefer that I just exploit mechanics to win.

I wouldn't call it lazy ... it takes a lot of work to actually create a large open world.

I would often call it unfocused though, which means a lot of the work goes to waste because the player doesn't interact with it deeply. You have to spend a lot more resources and be a lot more careful to create a really engaging open world.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:16:

Free to Play: Be honest with me, give me the complete game and tell me what price I'm going to pay for it. It's hard for me to complain because I never actually play these games, I'm just miffed that they exist.

I can only agree with your free to play comments here. To me, free to play just means some low effort grinding game that tries to force you into spending money to progress ... meaning a compromised experience, because it isn't designed around offering fun.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:16:

Dark Souls: I've complained about this in other threads. Clunky game mechanics and required memorization are terrible gameplay elements. Throw in waste of time punishment for failure and this is a turd sunday.

I'm not sure what to say about this one, I'll have to try elden ring soon and see how I feel about a true dark souls style game. I guess if you take dying particularly seriously (like I often do), it is a lot harder to enjoy the challenge.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:16:

Collect-a-thon: Modern games that have dozens of different collectables, I try my best to ignore them and focus on the gameplay but in the back of your mind you are always worried you might be missing out on something important.

You are generally not missing anything, I do exactly the same thing, although I did collect all the pokemon in Pokemon Arceus ... mostly because I wanted to access the end boss and because they actually made doing so reasonably accessible, rather than near impossible.

We just have to recognize that most of the faults that people submit as being bains of modern games certainly do not apply to ALL modern games ... by any stretch, and are often just as applicable to old games. ... I mean complaining about modern keyboard controls being complex .... that is what PC gaming has been doing since the early 80's. Or Collect-a-thons ... a regular passtime of old Amiga and console platformers since time began. Of free-to-play ... where it was just a cheaply built advert for some other product (ford simulator anyone!)

Of course, if you listen to YongYea on youtube exclusively, and some other excessively negative youtube channels, you might be convinced that there are only crappy loot box free to play bastard games out there. (yes, I subscribe that their channels, but I also realize they do this because it generates views from the outrage. So it is a very narrow and deliberately negative view.

Reply 85 of 232, by appiah4

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:36:
The rest I either agree with you or am impartial about, but I can't really see anything inherently bad with these ones. […]
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The rest I either agree with you or am impartial about, but I can't really see anything inherently bad with these ones.

Remasters can actually be really well designed, though I think we both dislike the quick cashgrabs that are often associated with remasters.
Escort missions, try Escort Duty in DRG, it's great!
Cinematic trailers, not sure what you mean with this tbh. I guess it's why you hate modern games?
Open World, well first thing that comes to mind is Skyrim and I think that game is really great! Especially from a modders perspective 😋
I'm impartial to sandbox.

Well, this is my view but:

Remasters are 90% of the time not faithful to the original and miss the point entirely. There are some gems here and there like the Master Chief Collection, for example, but most are either outright terrible or a blatant cash grab.
Escort Missions: I have yet to play a good one. DRG?
Cinematic Trailers: Evolution of 'bullshots'; hype train with absolutely zero gameplay implication.
Open World: I find these games to be very disjointed, uneven and unbelievable experiences. The world is there to immerse in but to me they provide no immersion. I find that my suspension of disbelief breaks very, very easily when playing these: I look at their world and its pretentious pseudo-reality falls apart at the seams. They feel gimmicky and gamey; In Holden Caulfield's words, they feel phony. To me these games are the embodiment of "uncanny valley" in world building.

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Reply 86 of 232, by RetroGamer4Ever

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brostenen wrote on 2022-06-21, 10:46:
Errius wrote on 2022-06-20, 11:11:

What's going on with Warhammer 40K games? For years and years there were just the Space Hulk games, but now there are hundreds of the things, and dozens of new ones get released each year. What's going on over there? What business model is this?

But I would love a new modern computer that are able to play minecraft without any lag or slowdown. I used to play single player without monsters and unlimited resources. Just to construct and build giant castles and underground churches with giant ass pilllars. You know. Just full creative mode and offline. But I have no idea what hardware to look for, that are fully Linux compatible as well.

For Linux gaming, you want a full Intel system, with a recent 6-core or more CPU from the last 7-8 years, maxed out RAM, SSDs, and one of the new Intel ARC/Xe GPUs. If you also want Windows compatibility, you are limited to more recent Intel CPUs from the last 5 or so years. You can use a recent Nvidia GPU instead of an Intel one, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you happen to have one laying around that works well in whatever system you throw together.

Reply 87 of 232, by Joakim

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:27:
Here's my 2c: […]
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Here's my 2c:

Games as a Service
Open World/Sandbox
Filler/Bloat
Lootbox/Microtransactions
Season Pass (particularly before the game even launched)
ETFs
DRM
Remake/Remasters
Day 1 DLC/Patch
Early Access
Episodic Games
Ultra Mega Super Duper Special Digital Editions
24 Hour Download Times
Annual Franchise Refreshes
Unskippable cutscenes
AI from 1970s
Escort Missions
Cinematic Trailers

I guess that's enough hate for a day..

Escort missions. Hate them so much. Its not a new element though. Remember a mission in jedi knight 2 being horrible in this way and also tie fighter.

Stupid suicidal NPCs.

I somwhat agree with RNG. In my country they are sometimes actually considered gamling by the government I believe (if you get caught) you can get in trouble with the 'IRS' if you happen to find (and) sell any of your originally textured polygons.

Reply 88 of 232, by dr_st

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Joakim wrote on 2022-06-21, 15:23:

Escort missions. Hate them so much. Its not a new element though. Remember a mission in jedi knight 2 being horrible in this way and also tie fighter.

Stupid suicidal NPCs.

So I take it this thread stopped being about modern games? 😀

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Reply 89 of 232, by brostenen

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-06-21, 15:10:
brostenen wrote on 2022-06-21, 10:46:
Errius wrote on 2022-06-20, 11:11:

What's going on with Warhammer 40K games? For years and years there were just the Space Hulk games, but now there are hundreds of the things, and dozens of new ones get released each year. What's going on over there? What business model is this?

But I would love a new modern computer that are able to play minecraft without any lag or slowdown. I used to play single player without monsters and unlimited resources. Just to construct and build giant castles and underground churches with giant ass pilllars. You know. Just full creative mode and offline. But I have no idea what hardware to look for, that are fully Linux compatible as well.

For Linux gaming, you want a full Intel system, with a recent 6-core or more CPU from the last 7-8 years, maxed out RAM, SSDs, and one of the new Intel ARC/Xe GPUs. If you also want Windows compatibility, you are limited to more recent Intel CPUs from the last 5 or so years. You can use a recent Nvidia GPU instead of an Intel one, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you happen to have one laying around that works well in whatever system you throw together.

Thanks. I might create a new tread in a different sub forum here on Vogons. If I need more info. I never play it online. Always peacefull creative and none of the gfx enhancements that are avaliable for Minecraft. You know, those quality enhancement packs. I have a giant castle with dungeons that I build back in 2011 to 2013, but updates have made the game run too slow on any of my computers.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 90 of 232, by LSS10999

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-06-21, 15:10:
brostenen wrote on 2022-06-21, 10:46:
Errius wrote on 2022-06-20, 11:11:

What's going on with Warhammer 40K games? For years and years there were just the Space Hulk games, but now there are hundreds of the things, and dozens of new ones get released each year. What's going on over there? What business model is this?

But I would love a new modern computer that are able to play minecraft without any lag or slowdown. I used to play single player without monsters and unlimited resources. Just to construct and build giant castles and underground churches with giant ass pilllars. You know. Just full creative mode and offline. But I have no idea what hardware to look for, that are fully Linux compatible as well.

For Linux gaming, you want a full Intel system, with a recent 6-core or more CPU from the last 7-8 years, maxed out RAM, SSDs, and one of the new Intel ARC/Xe GPUs. If you also want Windows compatibility, you are limited to more recent Intel CPUs from the last 5 or so years. You can use a recent Nvidia GPU instead of an Intel one, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you happen to have one laying around that works well in whatever system you throw together.

Personally I don't think you need very recent hardware for Linux gaming. Not all recent hardware work out-of-box on Linux, especially when it comes to video cards.

AMD Polaris/Vega should work okay on Linux, but my experience with RDNA ones were abysmal back then. There were a lot of issues and kernel panics were very trivial to trigger and reproduce, though things are mostly okay now with 5.15 LTS and 5.18 kernels.

Windows 10 will remain supported for the time being. As for what will happen to the older PCs that predated Windows 11's security requirements, I don't think there'd be a concrete answer until 2025 when Win10 EOLs.

Reply 91 of 232, by RandomStranger

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-06-21, 15:10:

For Linux gaming, you want a full Intel system, with a recent 6-core or more CPU from the last 7-8 years, maxed out RAM, SSDs, and one of the new Intel ARC/Xe GPUs.

100% bullshit. I have a Ryzen based ful AMD PC and according to what I read on ProtonDB, I have less issues with Linux gaming than People with Intel/Nvidia. As for ARC GPUs, are those even on the market yet?

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Reply 93 of 232, by appiah4

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-06-21, 15:10:
brostenen wrote on 2022-06-21, 10:46:
Errius wrote on 2022-06-20, 11:11:

What's going on with Warhammer 40K games? For years and years there were just the Space Hulk games, but now there are hundreds of the things, and dozens of new ones get released each year. What's going on over there? What business model is this?

But I would love a new modern computer that are able to play minecraft without any lag or slowdown. I used to play single player without monsters and unlimited resources. Just to construct and build giant castles and underground churches with giant ass pilllars. You know. Just full creative mode and offline. But I have no idea what hardware to look for, that are fully Linux compatible as well.

For Linux gaming, you want a full Intel system, with a recent 6-core or more CPU from the last 7-8 years, maxed out RAM, SSDs, and one of the new Intel ARC/Xe GPUs. If you also want Windows compatibility, you are limited to more recent Intel CPUs from the last 5 or so years. You can use a recent Nvidia GPU instead of an Intel one, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you happen to have one laying around that works well in whatever system you throw together.

This post is pure bullshit. I mean, 100%. There is not even an ounce of truth there. There is so much wrong in it that I won't even bother correcting it. Everyone please disregard it completely.

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Reply 94 of 232, by BEEN_Nath_58

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awgamer wrote on 2022-06-22, 03:58:

>are those even on the market yet?

Only technically, Intel released a small number of the low end versions in china so they could say they released them on time.

Wasn't Arc 3 released outside of China?

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Reply 95 of 232, by appiah4

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-06-22, 06:32:
awgamer wrote on 2022-06-22, 03:58:

>are those even on the market yet?

Only technically, Intel released a small number of the low end versions in china so they could say they released them on time.

Wasn't Arc 3 released outside of China?

China only AFAIK.

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Reply 96 of 232, by RandomStranger

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Intel says it's launched in Q2 2022, so very recently. I've only see news that it only launched in China.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/produ … c-a-series.html
https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-arc-a380 … shouldnt-buy-it
And it's a low-end GPU. According to early reviews, it's soundly beaten by the RX6500XT and RTX3050.

Are they planning anything faster? This feels like the i740 again.

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Reply 97 of 232, by LSS10999

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RandomStranger wrote on 2022-06-22, 06:52:
Intel says it's launched in Q2 2022, so very recently. I've only see news that it only launched in China. https://www.intel.com/ […]
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Intel says it's launched in Q2 2022, so very recently. I've only see news that it only launched in China.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/produ … c-a-series.html
https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-arc-a380 … shouldnt-buy-it
And it's a low-end GPU. According to early reviews, it's soundly beaten by the RX6500XT and RTX3050.

Are they planning anything faster? This feels like the i740 again.

I'm wondering if these Intel GPUs can be used independently with just any board and CPU.

Back then Intel had a DG1 which feels more like an expansion module as it can only be used with very recent Intel CPUs and cannot be used elsewhere.

Reply 98 of 232, by ratfink

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:27:
Here's my 2c: […]
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Here's my 2c:

Games as a Service
Open World/Sandbox
Filler/Bloat
Lootbox/Microtransactions
Season Pass (particularly before the game even launched)
ETFs
DRM
Remake/Remasters
Day 1 DLC/Patch
Early Access
Episodic Games
Ultra Mega Super Duper Special Digital Editions
24 Hour Download Times
Annual Franchise Refreshes
Unskippable cutscenes
AI from 1970s
Escort Missions
Cinematic Trailers

I guess that's enough hate for a day..

Hahaha you reminded me of so many things I hate!

But not all. I think escort missions can add a bit of variety, I don't really mind cutscenes and I actually like cinematic trailers; plus remakes from the original game company feel like a good idea at heart. Probably all depends on the game though.

Reply 99 of 232, by Tetrium

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:58:
Well, this is my view but: […]
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Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-21, 14:36:
The rest I either agree with you or am impartial about, but I can't really see anything inherently bad with these ones. […]
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The rest I either agree with you or am impartial about, but I can't really see anything inherently bad with these ones.

Remasters can actually be really well designed, though I think we both dislike the quick cashgrabs that are often associated with remasters.
Escort missions, try Escort Duty in DRG, it's great!
Cinematic trailers, not sure what you mean with this tbh. I guess it's why you hate modern games?
Open World, well first thing that comes to mind is Skyrim and I think that game is really great! Especially from a modders perspective 😋
I'm impartial to sandbox.

Well, this is my view but:

Remasters are 90% of the time not faithful to the original and miss the point entirely. There are some gems here and there like the Master Chief Collection, for example, but most are either outright terrible or a blatant cash grab.
Escort Missions: I have yet to play a good one. DRG?
Cinematic Trailers: Evolution of 'bullshots'; hype train with absolutely zero gameplay implication.
Open World: I find these games to be very disjointed, uneven and unbelievable experiences. The world is there to immerse in but to me they provide no immersion. I find that my suspension of disbelief breaks very, very easily when playing these: I look at their world and its pretentious pseudo-reality falls apart at the seams. They feel gimmicky and gamey; In Holden Caulfield's words, they feel phony. To me these games are the embodiment of "uncanny valley" in world building.

DRG is Deep Rock Galactic. I couldn't find a good vod displaying the gameplay I was referencing to but in short you need to escort a (slow moving) vehicle with loads of angry bugs spawning and chasing after you and the vehicle you need to protect.
And to protect them you can (depending on your class) nuke them, torch them or freeze them, use (proximity) nades or C4 on them, use sentry guns similar to the ones used in the Aliens movies or just plain shoot them with your guns. Also you can use mobile deployable bubble shields to protect this vehicle and as the vehicle moves out of the bubble, the bubble will block the hordes of enemies giving your team some room to breathe in case of emergencies.

The vehicle will run out of fuel once or twice so 2 of you need to go out and collect fuel while the rest collects other resources and guard the vehicle (your team can set up some defenses so the vehicle can be left alone to some extent).
One of the things about this game that I find fun is that you can quickly deploy infrastructure (like zip lines and small bridges or create ramps so your teammembers can make use of them while collecting resources and at the same time providing a quick path back to the vehicle in case another wave starts spawning) and thus need to think quickly how to best build it while being in a time limited stance.

At the final destination is what could be described mechanically as a boss fight which also includes large numbers of mobs.

DRG at times is really reminiscent to situations depicted in the movies Aliens or Starship Troopers. If that's your thing, chances are you're gonna like this particular game.

I do remember years ago that some other games also had these guard/escort missions and these were...shall I say, tricky at best? I didn't particularly hate them though but I didn't think the missions were great fun either. It was something I just went through and didn't think about it anymore, but with the Escort mission in DRG I sometimes really want to play a game of that xD

Last edited by Tetrium on 2022-06-22, 09:41. Edited 2 times in total.

Whats missing in your collections?
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