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Pc printers get worse and worse

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Reply 20 of 69, by cyclone3d

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-07-01, 05:19:

I'm quite curious to try a laser printer then, I noticed that the one you buy now, guess what? They have a toner with chips...
Is anyone willing to help me find a good quality used one? I tried to look some of the models you mentioned but I had no luck finding them used on ebay.

The aftermarket toner carts come with chips that are set for some amount of prints higher than the toner carts will ever last for. I've never had an aftermarket cart say the toner was empty before the toner ran out.

If you get an b/w one that is worth refilling the cart, you can either buy chips a la carte or you can get them included with the refill toner.

Here is the thing with small laser printers and why the mfgs don't restrict the use of aftermarket toner... There are companies that lease these printers and also have service / supply contracts that they sell companies. None of them that I am aware of use OEM carts due to the cost and if the printer mfgs restricted the use of aftermarket carts it would mean a not insignificant loss of business for them.

HPs just tell you that the carts are not genuine. Pretty sure Brothers don't say anything.

Konica Minolta also don't say anything but I won't bother with them because most of their laser printers are costly to upkeep and also because years ago I bought a brand new one and a few months later Windows 7 was released and Konica dropped driver support and the Vista drivers would not work in 7. I found a workaround by using drivers for a different model but that kind of horrid customer support just turned me off completely from ever desiring to own another printer from them.

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Reply 22 of 69, by PD2JK

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-07-01, 06:08:

I've found a HP LaserJet 1022, the compatible toner costs no more than 15-20eur, I checked and there are drivers up to windows 7.
Could it be fine?

The LJ 1022 is quite old, chances are that there is no built-in driver for that printer in Windows 8~11.

Search for the "HP LaserJet USB (DOT4) communication driver for Windows 8 and Higher (64-bit)" driver.
Filename: dot4x64.msi

You can also try the HP Universal Print Driver (UPD) and install it manually.

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Reply 23 of 69, by davidrg

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Personally I'd skip the 1022 - looks like a very basic model. Doesn't support PostScript or PCL6 so it won't work with the latest version of the HP Universal Printer Driver or generic PostScript drivers, no real control panel (probably have to use special software to configure it/diagnose problems), no ability to add networking - you've got to by the special 1022n model, no built-in duplexing (printing on both sides) and no ability to add it.

Its lack of support for PCL6 is actually kind of surprising given its a printer from 2005. My LaserJet 4100 from 2001 does support PCL6 which means the latest HP Universal Printer Driver for windows 10 should support it fine not that I've bothered trying - Windows 10 comes with a LaserJet 4100 driver that seems to work fine.

Edit: Decided to give it a quick test - the latest HP Universal Printer Driver for Windows 10 supports my 2001 LaserJet 4100 perfectly.

Reply 24 of 69, by Nemo1985

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Ok, ill skip it, too bad because it was with the original bundle... The universal compatible drivers are good? I mean, since they are universal, do they support the features of the printer? What's the difference with the specific drivers?

I've also found a more recent Samsung Scx-3200 (which is an HP), is it good? I can get it with a new toner for €50? It has universal drivers for windows 10.

Reply 25 of 69, by gerry

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-06-30, 03:36:

Thank you all for the inputs.
I have always been curious about laser printers but years ago I read about the microparticles released from the toner (and the weird smell you feel while they print) and that they should be used in a ventilated room.

so it seems!

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02 … 00227114551.htm

but for printing at home, which i do very little of, i doubt it would matter

i like the old dot matrix and daisy wheel printers

Reply 26 of 69, by Nemo1985

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gerry wrote on 2022-07-01, 08:19:
so it seems! […]
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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-06-30, 03:36:

Thank you all for the inputs.
I have always been curious about laser printers but years ago I read about the microparticles released from the toner (and the weird smell you feel while they print) and that they should be used in a ventilated room.

so it seems!

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02 … 00227114551.htm

but for printing at home, which i do very little of, i doubt it would matter

i like the old dot matrix and daisy wheel printers

I have it one next to me, that crazy sound like a banshee is crazy 🤣, still the printing quality is very and not that quick.

The study you mentioned is quite recent, so I suppose they still didn't resolve the issue. Still as you suggest:
"I don't want to alarm people," Guo said, "but special ventilation and exposure controls should be installed in rooms where laser printers are in heavy-duty use, because the concentration of nanoparticles released in the air during the printing and copying process is strongly correlated with the printing activities."

Surely print a paper or two every day in a room with open window won't be an issue.

Reply 27 of 69, by weedeewee

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the problem with laser printers and fine dust is one thing, the other thing about laser printers would be the creation of ozone due to the HV being generated.
The fine dust can lead to something similar to Coal workers' pneumoconiosis. Though you would likely have to open the toner and snort a line, every day, for a while.
The ozone can be a problem in non/badly ventilated rooms with the printer operating a lot of the time, since ozone isn't that great for your health or lungs when inhaled.
As usual it's the dosage that matters, since fine dust & ozone are found in the open air as well.

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Reply 28 of 69, by davidrg

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-07-01, 06:46:

Ok, ill skip it, too bad because it was with the original bundle... The universal compatible drivers are good? I mean, since they are universal, do they support the features of the printer? What's the difference with the specific drivers?

I've also found a more recent Samsung Scx-3200 (which is an HP), is it good? I can get it with a new toner for €50? It has universal drivers for windows 10.

Seems to support all the printer features that matter - printing, and printing on both sides. It does add some extra features that the generic LaserJet 4100 PostScript driver that comes with windows doesn't support but they're not features I care about (things like secure printing, storing documents on the printer so you can produce multiple copies without sending it multiple times, etc). But this printer is really not fussy when it comes to drivers - it understands Adobe PostScript which means pretty much any generic PostScript driver will work to some extent. I've printed to it using some Apple LaserWriter driver under MacOS 7.6, the LaserJet 4 driver under Windows NT 4.0, the LaserJet III PostScript driver under Windows 3.11 and MS-DOS Edit is fine just sending plain text to it. Documents come out just fine with all the original formatting, fonts, etc, intact.

As for that Samsung printer, never seen one but it might be OK. Based on the limited specs I can find it looks like a basic home/small office colour laser designed to be used by a single computer (USB only, no network). It relies on special drivers so eventually it won't work with some new version of windows but if its cheap that might not matter. It can print on both sides.

Reply 29 of 69, by Nemo1985

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davidrg wrote on 2022-07-01, 09:21:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-07-01, 06:46:

Ok, ill skip it, too bad because it was with the original bundle... The universal compatible drivers are good? I mean, since they are universal, do they support the features of the printer? What's the difference with the specific drivers?

I've also found a more recent Samsung Scx-3200 (which is an HP), is it good? I can get it with a new toner for €50? It has universal drivers for windows 10.

Seems to support all the printer features that matter - printing, and printing on both sides. It does add some extra features that the generic LaserJet 4100 PostScript driver that comes with windows doesn't support but they're not features I care about (things like secure printing, storing documents on the printer so you can produce multiple copies without sending it multiple times, etc). But this printer is really not fussy when it comes to drivers - it understands Adobe PostScript which means pretty much any generic PostScript driver will work to some extent. I've printed to it using some Apple LaserWriter driver under MacOS 7.6, the LaserJet 4 driver under Windows NT 4.0, the LaserJet III PostScript driver under Windows 3.11 and MS-DOS Edit is fine just sending plain text to it. Documents come out just fine with all the original formatting, fonts, etc, intact.

As for that Samsung printer, never seen one but it might be OK. Based on the limited specs I can find it looks like a basic home/small office colour laser designed to be used by a single computer (USB only, no network). It relies on special drivers so eventually it won't work with some new version of windows but if its cheap that might not matter. It can print on both sides.

Thank you for the precious clarification!

As for the printer, weird enough despite the samsung brand, if I search it on google it brings to hp website, so maybe it's some sort of cooperation? Just as most of laser printers it's black and white, not color. It has universal drivers for windows 10. Do you think I would be able to use it (with scanner function too) on windows 10? It's the best thing I was able to find, other than that, I have to go on new stuff, with obviously higher costs.

Reply 30 of 69, by PD2JK

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Technology in budget laser printers are often shared. Last time I hooked up a Canon laser printer, and thought, "huh!, it just sounds like my HP at home."

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Reply 31 of 69, by Norton Commander

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I've owned several inkjets over the course of my PC years. My first was the original HP Deskjet. Not the 500 or plus, just plain old Deskjet. Then, as now, I only used it for the occasional resume, invoice etc. This is a problem when it comes to inkjets which are meant for continuous use. Sporadic use means ink dries in the print nozzles and wasting ink with the 'clean printhead' function which in my experience never thoroughly does the jobs and can waste as many as 3 ink cartridges. This was never an issue with my Deskjet due to the design. The ink cartridge and print head were one unit. Replacing the ink cartridge meant replacing the print head and nozzles which would restore pristine print quality. This changed of course and now tanks/cartridges are separate units.

The last inkjet I owned was an Epson AIO CX9400Fax. Due to my sporadic printing it suffered the same symptoms of every other inkjet I owned - clogged nozzles. I went through a bunch of cartridges running the clean print head feature which depleted my ink supply. I was about to send a fax when I was prompted by the "replace ink cartridge to continue" message on the LCD display. ??????? I'm not trying to print anything, I'm trying to send a fax which doesn't require any amount of ink! "replace ink cartridge to continue"
@#$%*%!@!!!

The only reason I still have this boat anchor is because the scanner feature still works despite not having replaced cartridges in over a decade. Have you seen the price of flatbed scanners lately?

Anyway I now own an HP Laserjet which is perfect for my home needs and never have to worry about clogged nozzles. To give you an idea about how much printing I do at home I've owned the printer for 8 years and have changed the toner once.

Reply 32 of 69, by BitWrangler

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Ohhhhh, I just thunk. I've had a couple of "accidentally a toner" incidents whereby I have got sealed toners for printers I don't got. I should dig them out and throw them up in the free for shipping thread.

(If it gets to be weeks, remind me)

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Reply 33 of 69, by dr_st

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Sharing some of my experience...

I used to swear by laserjets, back when I used to print a lot and did not need color printing, scanning or anything. Monochrome laserjets are not too big, not too expensive, very reliable, cost-efficient per page, and print fast.

However, add extra features (scanning, copying, automatic dulplex), and they get bigger and significantly more expensive up-front. Once you add color into the mix - things get even worse, especially in the physical size department. And suddenly print speed and reliability tank as well.

My only experience with a color laserjet was an early Xerox model which turned out to be a huge flop. The print head, or whatever that thing is called in the laserjets, died after a little over a year, just out of warranty. And even while it lasted it was rather slow to print, and color print quality was surprisingly worse than contemporary inkjets.

Fast-forward, and I am now exclusively using HP inkjets (the all-in-one officejet models). I can get them with 3-year warranties, which once or twice did cover some weird failures on my early model (forgot model name). Now I have a 6830 and a 6970 at my parents' place, and they are both doing fine, with automatic printing via WiFi without having to install any of the annoying HP software suites (just a basic driver that on modern Windows is installed automatically).

The ink is not cheap, and so I tried non-genuine cartridges a couple of times. The experience on both printers was virtually identical - the cartridges work, but when you use the printer after not having done so in a while - the colors are all messed up, pale and wrong. Running the calibration and printing a test page once or twice suddenly makes it okay. Until next time. Not good if you only print 1-2 pages every once in a while. The non-genuine cartridges are about 1/3 of the price of the originals, but you end up wasting 2-3 times the ink and more of your time for all the 'maintenance' stuff. Not a good tradeoff. I've gone back to using genuine cartridges exclusively and all problems went away.

What is it? Low ink quality? Deliberate sabotage by HP? I don't know and don't really care. I fully understand that this is the business model of the entry-level inkjets - they sell the printers rather cheaply to profit on the ink. As long as it works and gives me the service and quality I need (which it does), I am happy. The overall cost is not that much since I don't print in volumes. If I was, I would probably invest in a large office-grade color laserjet.

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Reply 34 of 69, by clueless1

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dr_st wrote on 2022-07-05, 05:21:
Sharing some of my experience... […]
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Sharing some of my experience...

I used to swear by laserjets, back when I used to print a lot and did not need color printing, scanning or anything. Monochrome laserjets are not too big, not too expensive, very reliable, cost-efficient per page, and print fast.

However, add extra features (scanning, copying, automatic dulplex), and they get bigger and significantly more expensive up-front. Once you add color into the mix - things get even worse, especially in the physical size department. And suddenly print speed and reliability tank as well.

My only experience with a color laserjet was an early Xerox model which turned out to be a huge flop. The print head, or whatever that thing is called in the laserjets, died after a little over a year, just out of warranty. And even while it lasted it was rather slow to print, and color print quality was surprisingly worse than contemporary inkjets.

Fast-forward, and I am now exclusively using HP inkjets (the all-in-one officejet models). I can get them with 3-year warranties, which once or twice did cover some weird failures on my early model (forgot model name). Now I have a 6830 and a 6970 at my parents' place, and they are both doing fine, with automatic printing via WiFi without having to install any of the annoying HP software suites (just a basic driver that on modern Windows is installed automatically).

The ink is not cheap, and so I tried non-genuine cartridges a couple of times. The experience on both printers was virtually identical - the cartridges work, but when you use the printer after not having done so in a while - the colors are all messed up, pale and wrong. Running the calibration and printing a test page once or twice suddenly makes it okay. Until next time. Not good if you only print 1-2 pages every once in a while. The non-genuine cartridges are about 1/3 of the price of the originals, but you end up wasting 2-3 times the ink and more of your time for all the 'maintenance' stuff. Not a good tradeoff. I've gone back to using genuine cartridges exclusively and all problems went away.

What is it? Low ink quality? Deliberate sabotage by HP? I don't know and don't really care. I fully understand that this is the business model of the entry-level inkjets - they sell the printers rather cheaply to profit on the ink. As long as it works and gives me the service and quality I need (which it does), I am happy. The overall cost is not that much since I don't print in volumes. If I was, I would probably invest in a large office-grade color laserjet.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html

This is a really good deal assuming you have a printer model that is supported.

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Reply 35 of 69, by creepingnet

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I'm running a Cannon LP6530DW printer currently, It's a B&W LaserJet (Never need color really). I just connect to it over WiFi. My only complaint is the plastic guide for the end of the paper tray broke, but I'm just ignoring it because it keeps working fine anyway regardless. Also got some ideas to mess around with connecting to it with the vintage machines :evil

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Reply 37 of 69, by zyzzle

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clueless1 wrote on 2022-07-05, 10:26:

https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html

This is a really good deal assuming you have a printer model that is supported.

This still seems very expensive. 100 pages a month for $6 or 300 pages for $12? Not sure just how many pages a genuine, full volume set of injet cartridges can print, but I'm sure it's more than 100 or even 300 pages. Could be 500 - 700 pages, depending on amount of coverage per page. Back in the day, when I owned injets, I didn't count exacrly, but I could get close to 1000 pages out of the large black cartridge. You may be saving 1/3rd over what it would cost to just buy (retail) inkjet cartridges, but you are paying for it in an always-occurring residual monthly payment whether you use the service to its maximum potential or not. I don't think it covers printers which use 4 or 6 inket cartrides, either. Still think laser printers are the way to go, unless you absolutely need color, and print mostly in color and / or need scanning or all-in-one.

Reply 38 of 69, by ptr1ck

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Consumer ink-jet printers are all garbage. A lot of them are designed so that the ink will expire by drying up. Large commercial ink-jets don't tend to do this, but will instead have a chip in the cartridge that carries an expiration date (HP crap).

For personal use, I stick with Brother branded laser printers. I have an old Brother HL-2270DW that meets all my needs. It's non-color laser, wireless and fast enough for the home to print professional looking documents.

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Reply 39 of 69, by clueless1

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zyzzle wrote on 2022-07-06, 12:49:
clueless1 wrote on 2022-07-05, 10:26:

https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html

This is a really good deal assuming you have a printer model that is supported.

This still seems very expensive. 100 pages a month for $6 or 300 pages for $12? Not sure just how many pages a genuine, full volume set of injet cartridges can print, but I'm sure it's more than 100 or even 300 pages. Could be 500 - 700 pages, depending on amount of coverage per page. Back in the day, when I owned injets, I didn't count exacrly, but I could get close to 1000 pages out of the large black cartridge. You may be saving 1/3rd over what it would cost to just buy (retail) inkjet cartridges, but you are paying for it in an always-occurring residual monthly payment whether you use the service to its maximum potential or not. I don't think it covers printers which use 4 or 6 inket cartrides, either. Still think laser printers are the way to go, unless you absolutely need color, and print mostly in color and / or need scanning or all-in-one.

Yeah, it covers printers with multiple ink cartridges. Mine uses 4 and they just show up in the mail when any of them start getting low. They use oversized cartridges that aren't available any other way, so they tend to last close to a year. I agree it's not for everyone, but we make big use of the color, scanning, and copying. Besides, as crazy as life is, it's one less thing for me to micromanage. I'm happy to pay a flat fee in exchange for not having to ever worry about running out of ink at the most inconvenient moment. Pages you don't use will roll over to the next month, but there have times we have unexpectedly printed way more and had to pay an overage fee. It's worth it for our family.

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