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Is gaming a waste of time?

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Reply 20 of 49, by Shponglefan

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I think it depends.

Accomplishments in games aren't real. Yes, I may have 100%'d Dark Souls, but does that really matter? No. It provides a false sense of accomplishment, which is something that games thrive on.

On the other hand, gaming is a relaxation activity and I do believe that such activities are important. Unwinding with some escapist entertainment after a stressful day is not, imho, a bad thing.

There are also ancillary reasons for gaming including professional competition, doing as a job (streaming, development), or even doing it for exercise (motion controls / VR).

My YouTube channel (retro game music)

Reply 21 of 49, by Joakim

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Generally no, do what ever floats your boat. But there are exceptions.

I can only speak for myself but mmorpgs are for me extremely addictive. I am truly afraid that a proportion of the population will literally go under from VR mmorpgs. This makes me sad.

Edit: I'm a bit tipsy sorry can't write properly.

Reply 22 of 49, by Shponglefan

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Joakim wrote on 2022-07-19, 16:29:

I can only speak for myself but mmorpgs are for extremely addictive. I am truly afraid that a proportion of the population will literally go under from VR mmorpgs. This makes me sad.

The upside of VR gaming is it can provide physical exercise. Assuming they aren't simply sitting in a chair.

My YouTube channel (retro game music)

Reply 24 of 49, by newtmonkey

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Games are awesome. I get the same satisfaction playing through a game, as I do watching a movie, listening to an album, or reading a book (sometimes more, if the game is difficult).

Reply 25 of 49, by badmojo

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A Muz thread about wasting time? Count me in.

Video games have provided me countless magical moments over the years and I use them as an excuse to play with computer hardware, which is another win. So no, not a waste.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 26 of 49, by BitWrangler

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It's like a treadmill for your meat CPU https://www.hult.edu/blog/why-video-games-are … y-good-for-you/

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 27 of 49, by ThinkpadIL

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Muz wrote on 2022-07-18, 16:39:

Is gaming a waste of time?

Ok, I'll try to answer your question from a non-gamer perspective.

First of all, any activity at the same time can be considered as a serious occupation and as a complete waste of time. It depends on your definition of "serious occupation" and "waste of time". Consequently it's up to you to decide whether it's a waste of time or not and no matter what you'll decide, no one can tell you that you're wrong. In other words, any answer to your question will be the correct one.

So, in my opinion the right question will be "Is gaming a childish activity?". My answer is definitely YES. Computer games in particular and any games in general are the way to simplify some kind of real life activity, so it will be more easy for kids to understand it and to try it. Is there something wrong with being involved in childish activity? Of course not. If going even further you may think about playing with a dog. Is there something wrong with playing with a dog? Of course not. It's a lot of fun. Same about computer games. So where might be a problem? A problem is in the amount of time you spend on it. If you play with a dog once or twice a week for half an hour - it's ok. If you play with a dog half an hour every day - it's weird, but seems to be ok also. But what about playing with a dog for four hours every day? And what about playing with a dog for ten hours in a row making breaks only to eat and to go to the toilet?

Reply 28 of 49, by Joakim

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-07-20, 14:14:
Ok, I'll try to answer your question from a non-gamer perspective. […]
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Muz wrote on 2022-07-18, 16:39:

Is gaming a waste of time?

Ok, I'll try to answer your question from a non-gamer perspective.

First of all, any activity at the same time can be considered as a serious occupation and as a complete waste of time. It depends on your definition of "serious occupation" and "waste of time". Consequently it's up to you to decide whether it's a waste of time or not and no matter what you'll decide, no one can tell you that you're wrong. In other words, any answer to your question will be the correct one.

So, in my opinion the right question will be "Is gaming a childish activity?". My answer is definitely YES. Computer games in particular and any games in general are the way to simplify some kind of real life activity, so it will be more easy for kids to understand it and to try it. Is there something wrong with being involved in childish activity? Of course not. If going even further you may think about playing with a dog. Is there something wrong with playing with a dog? Of course not. It's a lot of fun. Same about computer games. So where might be a problem? A problem is in the amount of time you spend on it. If you play with a dog once or twice a week for half an hour - it's ok. If you play with a dog half an hour every day - it's weird, but seems to be ok also. But what about playing with a dog for four hours every day? And what about playing with a dog for ten hours in a row making breaks only to eat and to go to the toilet?

I don't understand why you would call gaming s childish activity (put it down) and then go ahead and say that it is ok. What purpose does that serve?

People who call us names to belittle us it are usually 'normal' and would spend copious amount of time and money to watch millionaires run on a field of grass and chase after a sphere made of animal skin. Or spend 6 hours every Sunday afternoon hitting a ball into a hole with a metal object.

Idk do what ever floats your boat, who cares what other people think.

Reply 29 of 49, by ThinkpadIL

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Joakim wrote on 2022-07-20, 15:25:

I don't understand why you would call gaming s childish activity (put it down) and then go ahead and say that it is ok. What purpose does that serve?

I tried to explain why, but it seems that I failed to do it, so I'll try again with some example. Look at shooting games. Those games can teach kid a lot - names of guns, how do they look, basics of shooting etc. Can they teach adults anything besides degrading their shooting skills and feel of responsibility when dealing with guns? No. For adult those games are pure fun, and fun with something that is contributing for kids and downgrading for adults. Is it harmful for an adult to play those shooters? It's up to how much to play them. If for half an hour twice a week of course not, it's pure fun and recreation. But what about if one plays them for at least four hours everyday? Of course yes.

Same is true for chess, which isn't a computer game at all (though may be played on computers too). Many people will say that chess is a sport or chess is a highly intellectual game or something like that. Well, this game for sure demands some skills. And if you want to win the best ones in it you'll need high skills and a lot of training. But does it contribute something to real life? Not at all. In real life you may skip a turn, you may change a side, you may even smash your enemy's head with a board. In real life there is much more place for uncertainty and creativity. Real life - this is the game for adults.

Joakim wrote on 2022-07-20, 15:25:

People who call us names to belittle us it are usually 'normal' and would spend copious amount of time and money to watch millionaires run on a field of grass and chase after a sphere made of animal skin. Or spend 6 hours every Sunday afternoon hitting a ball into a hole with a metal object.

Idk do what ever floats your boat, who cares what other people think.

Who are "us"? Gamers? I do not call you specifically or gamers in general any names or belittle you or them. Although I'm not a gamer, but I also play computer games sometimes. Sometimes they are fun, but mostly they are boring me. I do not count time I spend on playing games, but they are boring me quite fast. But still, being an adult and playing them from time to time doesn't make them an adult activity. I still find them childish and I have no problem being involved in childish activity sometimes as I see no problem in playing with a dog sometimes. I am just honest with myself and I admit that playing computer games it is being involved in childish activity and that playing too much is harmful.

I'm not trying to judge you or somebody else, I'm only trying to make sense of computer games, and I make it with all due respect to all folks here including those who call themselves gamers.

Reply 30 of 49, by TheMobRules

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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-07-20, 16:58:

I'm not trying to judge you or somebody else, I'm only trying to make sense of computer games, and I make it with all due respect to all folks here including those who call themselves gamers.

Well, calling someone's hobby "childish" is going to sound belittling whether you mean it or not, especially on a forum oriented towards that same hobby (what do you think the "G" in VOGONS stands for?). It would be like going to a fishing discussion board and call out people because they like to fish.

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-07-20, 16:58:

Real life - this is the game for adults.

😆 What is this even supposed to mean? Video games are part of real life, much like sports, books, music, movies or whatever activity humans have come up to do in their free time. And yes, sometimes for several hours. Nothing wrong with that, it's pointless to dictate how people should organize their time, some may prefer working 24/7, some may need to balance different activities they like to do, and so on. There are of course cases when doing something in a compulsive way all of the time can be associated to mental health issues, but that's not specifically related to games.

From what I read you consider video games a very basic form of activity, which would be understandable if we were in the era where Pong was cutting edge. It would be like judging movies based on those early attempts to show a train coming towards the screen. But just like movies, games have evolved quite a bit you know? And no, it's not always about mindlessly shooting at all.

Reply 31 of 49, by ThinkpadIL

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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-07-20, 17:23:
Well, calling someone's hobby "childish" is going to sound belittling whether you mean it or not, especially on a forum oriented […]
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ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-07-20, 16:58:

I'm not trying to judge you or somebody else, I'm only trying to make sense of computer games, and I make it with all due respect to all folks here including those who call themselves gamers.

Well, calling someone's hobby "childish" is going to sound belittling whether you mean it or not, especially on a forum oriented towards that same hobby (what do you think the "G" in VOGONS stands for?). It would be like going to a fishing discussion board and call out people because they like to fish.

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-07-20, 16:58:

Real life - this is the game for adults.

😆 What is this even supposed to mean? Video games are part of real life, much like sports, books, music, movies or whatever activity humans have come up to do in their free time. And yes, sometimes for several hours. Nothing wrong with that, it's pointless to dictate how people should organize their time, some may prefer working 24/7, some may need to balance different activities they like to do, and so on. There are of course cases when doing something in a compulsive way all of the time can be associated to mental health issues, but that's not specifically related to games.

From what I read you consider video games a very basic form of activity, which would be understandable if we were in the era where Pong was cutting edge. It would be like judging movies based on those early attempts to show a train coming towards the screen. But just like movies, games have evolved quite a bit you know? And no, it's not always about mindlessly shooting at all.

Well, I don't know in which words to call kids oriented activity in order to not to hurt anyone's feelings. I'll say even more than that, all modern GUIs with their icons, bells and whistles are also childish since they are extremely intuitive and not without reason even two years old kids are able to understand them. Those GUIs were developed on basis of scientific researches of computer-human interaction and were intended to be understandable even to a small child. God bless those who made modern Operating Systems like that and that those adult scientists oriented Operating Systems like CP/M and MS-DOS with their command strings are gone for good.

So there is nothing bad or belittling in childish things. Childs after all are also humans and are equal to adults in terms of their human rights. 🙂

Regarding this forum, I come here because I like tinkering with vintage computers and folks here besides playing games have also plenty of knowledge and experience in dealing with computer hardware and software and I really appreciate it.

Reply 32 of 49, by TheMobRules

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Uh, not sure if English is your first language, but you better look up the definition of "childish" in the dictionary, because it's pretty much a derogatory term. I don't think anyone would get their feelings hurt by that, but it definitely comes across as condescending.

In any case, there are zillions of games which are rated "18+" or "adults only", so their target audience is specifically NOT children. Again, it seems to me you're equating video games with stuff like Nintendo's "game and watch" or Pong consoles which were most certainly oriented towards children. But that was almost 40 years ago, things have changed quite a bit now.

You also mention "tinkering with vintage computers". Do you consider that also a "childish" activity? If not, what makes it "adult oriented"? Because I don't think it's going to be very helpful on "real life".

And this is off-topic but, CP/M or DOS are not "adult scientist oriented" 😆, they are just a product of what technology was capable of at the time. I'm sure any adult scientist prefers a well designed UI which allows them to be more productive instead of having to type hundreds of commands. But command lines are pretty much still alive, and back then many children were able to learn how to use them, whether it was MS-DOS, C64 BASIC or whatever.

Reply 33 of 49, by ThinkpadIL

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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:45:

Uh, not sure if English is your first language, but you better look up the definition of "childish" in the dictionary, because it's pretty much a derogatory term. I don't think anyone would get their feelings hurt by that, but it definitely comes across as condescending.

In any case, there are zillions of games which are rated "18+" or "adults only", so their target audience is specifically NOT children. Again, it seems to me you're equating video games with stuff like Nintendo's "game and watch" or Pong consoles which were most certainly oriented towards children. But that was almost 40 years ago, things have changed quite a bit now.

And this is off-topic but, CP/M or DOS are not "adult scientist oriented" 😆, they are just a product of what technology was capable of at the time. I'm sure any adult scientist prefers a well designed UI which allows them to be more productive instead of having to type hundreds of commands. But command lines are pretty much still alive, and back then many children were able to learn how to use them, whether it was MS-DOS, C64 BASIC or whatever.

Ok, let's call it kids oriented, since as you mentioned there are age ratings on them and there are even more games that are 3+, 7+, 12+ or 16+.

Regarding definition of word "childish". Let's look at Wikipedia. It says like that - "Childish describes something suitable for a child, or something (particularly behavior) that is immature." So I use it in the meaning of something suitable for a child.

And what about CP/M or DOS, that's not true that they are just a product of what technology was capable of at the time. Xerox Alto GUI was developed many years before MS-DOS, and even before CP/M. So technology was already capable of making GUIs and hardware was already capable of working under it.

In any case, this is only my humble opinion and there is no problem at all if you or someone else here will see it in a different way. 🙂

Reply 34 of 49, by creepingnet

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Video games are not childish. The original PONG was put in a BAR. Actually, it was kind of a past time for people on a date to play Pong together, most likely 18 or older since it was a bar in 1973.

The whole "childish" thing started when they went to the home. Truth be told, originally Video Games were a family activity. When I was a kid, I would watch Saturday Morning cartoons and eat pancakes with my middle-aged mom and teenage sisters, then when Pee Wee came on, we'd fire up the Atari 2600, sometimes with as many as 4 player games of Super Breakout or 2 player games of Combat...or take turns on Pitfall...and play together. That all stopped with the NES.

And even then, when I had my first NES as a kid, mom played Tetris OBSESSIVELY - she was 45 around that time. To the point she had post-its of her level 12 high scores on the cart. My gradschool sister was playing things like Ultima and Dragon Warrior, and had a 386 with Monkey Island, Freddy Pharkas, and the adult-oriented Leisure Suit Larry on i it that I was not allowed to touch.

To me it's not just for kids. Of course, I think a lot of the judgemental b.s. around video games comes from people who are insecure that they are truly an adult or not. Adulthood is when you pay your bills on time, manage your committments to do the least damage possible, and get your "job" done - not whether or not you escape via some electronic device filled with fantasy.

On the comment of DOS/CP/M being scientist type stuff, definatly a product of the tech of the time. I work with people in science/STEM, and some of those guys can't even cd\ their way out of a paper bag let alone find the folder to click on half the time in File Explorer. Heck, my biological side of the family is all STEM and they were the jerks as a kid telling me that if I press one of the Function keys it will "kill/break" the computer. Now I make my living using things way more risky than the 12 Function keys on a 104 key computer keyboard. The tricky part about STEM types and computers is getting I.T. to get along with their bizzare and often highly specialized software these days, some of which is still using outdated technologies due to government regulations - like right now, I'm fighting with ActiveX controls in a "dead" browser in 2022 (rolls eyes)!

~The Creeping Network~
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
Creepingnet's World - https://creepingnet.neocities.org/

Reply 35 of 49, by BitWrangler

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Science OSes I saw being used were VMS in the CP/M through DOS era and Solaris when they wanted point and click, with linux getting more serious science use through the end of the 90s. Maybe they'd write papers with Word and Mathematica though.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 36 of 49, by olddos25

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Depends on who you ask honestly. Some people may agree with this sentiment, they don't think it is valuable, for others such as myself it may be a way to pass the time and experience things and inmerse ourselves in fantastic worlds which we wouldn't be able to do otherwise, and for a select few it might even be a method of income, a way to have a decent wellbeing while doing what they enjoy most, specially with how much stuff like e-sports have taken off recently.
Really makes you think how things can really change depending on how we look at them.

Just another user that likes old OSes and videogames, nothing interesting to see here...
Other places to find me:
DraStic: http://drastic-ds.com (as dsattorney)

Reply 37 of 49, by ThinkpadIL

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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-07-20, 18:45:

You also mention "tinkering with vintage computers". Do you consider that also a "childish" activity? If not, what makes it "adult oriented"? Because I don't think it's going to be very helpful on "real life".

I've paid attention that I didn't answer to this part of your post, so sorry for that.

For me tinkering with vintage computers is a recreational way to spend my free time. I do not make money from that, and as you mentioned correctly it's not going to be very helpful on real life, so it may be also considered as a way to waste my time.

Do I consider it as a childish activity? It depends. On one hand, I do not consider it as a childish activity since in many cases it demands some adult skills and knowledge. But on the other hand, in terms of age I personally would rate it as 12+, since at the age of 14 you may obtain a restricted driving license and at the age of 16 you're able to take a solo flight on a single-engine plane. So, in my opinion it is definitely suitable for kids that are teenagers and if put aside dealing with high voltages, and other complicated and skill/knowledge demanding activities, yes, from this perspective in my opinion it might be considered as a childish activity. Not complicated activities like building a system from parts, installing software and programming in Basic may contribute a lot to a kid and does not demand any special skills or knowledge.

Reply 39 of 49, by gerry

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Shponglefan wrote on 2022-07-19, 16:18:

Accomplishments in games aren't real. Yes, I may have 100%'d Dark Souls, but does that really matter? No. It provides a false sense of accomplishment, which is something that games thrive on.

whilst that appears to be true, is it? there is an experiential achievement of sorts, sometimes quite good - like reading a good novel or seeing a good film