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Reply 20 of 84, by Peter.Mengel

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 05:31:
You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts. […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-08-12, 19:32:

If I can manage I'll grab a 4090 or 4090ti as soon as they drop.

You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts.

That aside, I have a 3080ti that I find hard to use its full power, even recent games are hard pressed to use it fully unless I abuse RT without DLSS, but for pure raster stuff .. nothing comes close to being able to saturate the processing power of modern GPUs.

Next gen Ill be going AMD with their MCM GPU, nVidia is pushing 900watt Halo GPUs as their answer to more GPU power, AMD is going with MCM instead leveraging their chiplet and fabric tech for GPUs. I thought the 3000 series was bad for power draw but the 4000 series is going to be worse and the last thing my PC needs is a 900watt GPU in it.

Why do I say 900watts . .because I dont believe in buying low/midrange GPUs, If im going to drop a bundle of cash on a GPU I may as well do it right and get something as close to the top as I can and then not have to worry about it again for 5+ years. Its not future proofing but rather knowing that no matter what game hits the scene in that 5 years my GPU will have more than enough power to play it decently.

I somehow doubt this leaked informations. Cause Imagine 450Watt or more...its a heater not a graphics card. How should it keep low temperatures by air? Do we Speak about a FX5XXX Fan Revival just in bigger? You know its weird so maybe all cards have water cooling otherwise its a huge fan system with plenty of new ideas needed to cool it down without heating the whole PC up to 100 c and more.

Reply 21 of 84, by TrashPanda

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Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-08-15, 06:04:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 05:31:
You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts. […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-08-12, 19:32:

If I can manage I'll grab a 4090 or 4090ti as soon as they drop.

You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts.

That aside, I have a 3080ti that I find hard to use its full power, even recent games are hard pressed to use it fully unless I abuse RT without DLSS, but for pure raster stuff .. nothing comes close to being able to saturate the processing power of modern GPUs.

Next gen Ill be going AMD with their MCM GPU, nVidia is pushing 900watt Halo GPUs as their answer to more GPU power, AMD is going with MCM instead leveraging their chiplet and fabric tech for GPUs. I thought the 3000 series was bad for power draw but the 4000 series is going to be worse and the last thing my PC needs is a 900watt GPU in it.

Why do I say 900watts . .because I dont believe in buying low/midrange GPUs, If im going to drop a bundle of cash on a GPU I may as well do it right and get something as close to the top as I can and then not have to worry about it again for 5+ years. Its not future proofing but rather knowing that no matter what game hits the scene in that 5 years my GPU will have more than enough power to play it decently.

I somehow doubt this leaked informations. Cause Imagine 450Watt or more...its a heater not a graphics card. How should it keep low temperatures by air? Do we Speak about a FX5XXX Fan Revival just in bigger? You know its weird so maybe all cards have water cooling otherwise its a huge fan system with plenty of new ideas needed to cool it down without heating the whole PC up to 100 c and more.

Its nVidia and they have increased power draw for the last two generations substantially and hooper (Their MCM card) is still at least two years out possibly longer, the only way for nVidia to increase GPU processing power substantially over previous gen is to either boost power draw and drive the GPU harder or to somehow get Hooper to the market sooner. They already have 1Kw 3090tis out there so a mainstream 900watt 4090ti isn't beyond the realm of possibility but I'm guessing their mid range will be similar to what the 3080s currently draw and the low range close to what mid range currently is.

And yea you can expect to see more halo GPUs sporting AIOs like the Toxic cards did for Sapphire, its really the only way to keep 600+watt GPUs cool.

Smaller process nodes wont help them here substantially either as they are already up against diminishing returns for shrinking nodes, this is likely why AMD is moving to MCM chiplets and fabric for some of their 7000 cards.

And its really what nVidia does, do you think the 3000 series would have had the jump it had if they had not increased the power draw as substantially as they did ? no, nVidia when stuck does this a lot, they did it before when AMD had them by the balls, they made hot noisy power hungry beasts ..like Fermi just to stay in the lead.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 22 of 84, by Shagittarius

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 05:31:
You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts. […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-08-12, 19:32:

If I can manage I'll grab a 4090 or 4090ti as soon as they drop.

You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts.

That aside, I have a 3080ti that I find hard to use its full power, even recent games are hard pressed to use it fully unless I abuse RT without DLSS, but for pure raster stuff .. nothing comes close to being able to saturate the processing power of modern GPUs.

Next gen Ill be going AMD with their MCM GPU, nVidia is pushing 900watt Halo GPUs as their answer to more GPU power, AMD is going with MCM instead leveraging their chiplet and fabric tech for GPUs. I thought the 3000 series was bad for power draw but the 4000 series is going to be worse and the last thing my PC needs is a 900watt GPU in it.

Why do I say 900watts . .because I dont believe in buying low/midrange GPUs, If im going to drop a bundle of cash on a GPU I may as well do it right and get something as close to the top as I can and then not have to worry about it again for 5+ years. Its not future proofing but rather knowing that no matter what game hits the scene in that 5 years my GPU will have more than enough power to play it decently.

I've already got a 1200 watt PSU. Like you I believe in getting the best GPU I can, never know when it will be my last one. Also I don't care about wattage, as long as the design paradigm requires power it's fine with me.

Reply 23 of 84, by TrashPanda

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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-08-15, 14:36:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 05:31:
You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts. […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-08-12, 19:32:

If I can manage I'll grab a 4090 or 4090ti as soon as they drop.

You might need a new 1200 watt PSU to power them beasts.

That aside, I have a 3080ti that I find hard to use its full power, even recent games are hard pressed to use it fully unless I abuse RT without DLSS, but for pure raster stuff .. nothing comes close to being able to saturate the processing power of modern GPUs.

Next gen Ill be going AMD with their MCM GPU, nVidia is pushing 900watt Halo GPUs as their answer to more GPU power, AMD is going with MCM instead leveraging their chiplet and fabric tech for GPUs. I thought the 3000 series was bad for power draw but the 4000 series is going to be worse and the last thing my PC needs is a 900watt GPU in it.

Why do I say 900watts . .because I dont believe in buying low/midrange GPUs, If im going to drop a bundle of cash on a GPU I may as well do it right and get something as close to the top as I can and then not have to worry about it again for 5+ years. Its not future proofing but rather knowing that no matter what game hits the scene in that 5 years my GPU will have more than enough power to play it decently.

I've already got a 1200 watt PSU. Like you I believe in getting the best GPU I can, never know when it will be my last one. Also I don't care about wattage, as long as the design paradigm requires power it's fine with me.

I have a small issue with how nVidia is focused on ever increasing power draw, its at a very silly point right now but the same can be said of modern 16 core CPUs and their ability to happily draw 400 watts. I think that both AMD and nVidia need to rethink their designs and get back to more efficient designs rather than trying to brute force RT/AI performance via wattage. (I say RT/AI because no pure raster application requires 450watt GPUs to hit 400+ FPS, you can mange this with a 2080ti/1080ti so it has to be RT/AI pushing this power requirement)

I know AMD is aware of silly wattages and is actually doing something to combat it, now if nVidia would kindly get the hell away from massive wattages and GPUs that require their own support systems due to the sheer weight of the cooler.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 24 of 84, by Meatball

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 05:31:

…GPUs that require their own support systems due to the sheer weight of the cooler.

One of the decisions which influenced my pick of the MSI version of the 3090 Ti was it having a 3-slot bracket attached, plus it included a GPU support rail/flag pole.

I normally buy eVGA, but the design of this generation was less attractive (though I don’t care for the tacky dragon tattoo’d on the MSI card, it still looks better overall than eVGA), and eVGA switched back to a 2-slot bracket on their 3090 Ti from the 2080 Ti.

The MSI having additional support is gravy.

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Reply 25 of 84, by TrashPanda

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Yeah I have a Suprim X 3080ti .. freaking beast of a card in both power and sheer size, would have loved a 3090ti but at nearly 5000 AUD on release it simply wasnt worth it, funny thing .. they are now down to 2500AUD for a Suprim X 3090ti, which is what my 3080ti cost. Fuck

The mouse mat in the box is also very nice, the Gpu support stand is really just gravy.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 26 of 84, by rmay635703

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Nothing like a GPU that costs $876+ a year of power off the wall

1200 watts is near the practical continuous limit of a U.S. facing power outlets

Beyond that you need a hospital or HD outlet, the rear stab in outlets in most homes flame up above 1200 watts, the really good (hospital grade / industrial) only support a constant 1500 watts

Beyond 1500 you need a 20 amp outlet which maxes at 1920 watts.

Me thinks we are going back in time to need an outlet like this, Pc as an air fryer?

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Even at 1200 watts due to my light hot water use that is enough heat to generate hot water for me.

Reply 27 of 84, by TrashPanda

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rmay635703 wrote on 2022-08-15, 17:52:
Nothing like a GPU that costs $876+ a year of power off the wall […]
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Nothing like a GPU that costs $876+ a year of power off the wall

1200 watts is near the practical continuous limit of a U.S. facing power outlets

Beyond that you need a hospital or HD outlet, the rear stab in outlets in most homes flame up above 1200 watts, the really good (hospital grade / industrial) only support a constant 1500 watts

Beyond 1500 you need a 20 amp outlet which maxes at 1920 watts.

Me thinks we are going back in time to need an outlet like this, Pc as an air fryer?

image.jpg

Even at 1200 watts due to my light hot water use that is enough heat to generate hot water for me.

Australia is lucky, I can pull ~3000 watts from the wall without killing the breaker, 240-250v AC @ 13amps is a wonderful thing, though if I want to run a 1600watt PSU ill need to use the 15amp wall plug cause they dont put 10amp power leads on 1600watt PSUs.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 28 of 84, by antrad

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I would like to upgrade to a 27" 1440p monitor and buy a GPU for it. Since I only play older games I was thinking of buying something like a used RX 580 or GTX 1070 which should be enough for playing older games on high resolutions.

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Reply 29 of 84, by Peter.Mengel

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 17:58:
rmay635703 wrote on 2022-08-15, 17:52:
Nothing like a GPU that costs $876+ a year of power off the wall […]
Show full quote

Nothing like a GPU that costs $876+ a year of power off the wall

1200 watts is near the practical continuous limit of a U.S. facing power outlets

Beyond that you need a hospital or HD outlet, the rear stab in outlets in most homes flame up above 1200 watts, the really good (hospital grade / industrial) only support a constant 1500 watts

Beyond 1500 you need a 20 amp outlet which maxes at 1920 watts.

Me thinks we are going back in time to need an outlet like this, Pc as an air fryer?

image.jpg

Even at 1200 watts due to my light hot water use that is enough heat to generate hot water for me.

Australia is lucky, I can pull ~3000 watts from the wall without killing the breaker, 240-250v AC @ 13amps is a wonderful thing, though if I want to run a 1600watt PSU ill need to use the 15amp wall plug cause they dont put 10amp power leads on 1600watt PSUs.

Germany too, 3680 Watt but most could do more its just the fuse will go to off position. As evrything is normed.

Reply 31 of 84, by Peter.Mengel

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chris2021 wrote on 2022-08-16, 00:49:

I can't help but wonder if there are more electrical fires in Australia and Germany. Maybe not. Maybe the electrical codes are more stringent.

I hear rarely from any electrical fires. Our Fuses are normed too, you can check the fuse box and if its a after 1990 you cant even kill yourself.
proofed by me and one of my kids...ive forgotten once to set it to off while doing cable work..short circuit and it was off. And one of my younger once
found a way to remove the sockets security and put a screw inside...just a loud CLICK and nothing happens.

But i was scared and changed all sockets to ones with keys! Damm kids! Never had much more fear in my life.

Reply 32 of 84, by TrashPanda

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chris2021 wrote on 2022-08-16, 00:49:

I can't help but wonder if there are more electrical fires in Australia and Germany. Maybe not. Maybe the electrical codes are more stringent.

When you grow up with higher mains voltages you learn to be pretty dang respectful of it so we dont have any more electrical fires here than you would normally expect, our codes here are also pretty stringent and most if not all newer homes have RCD based breakers.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 33 of 84, by chris2021

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We don't have many here either afaik. A few years back I heard of a lady who had a house full of animals, all trapped imside, fire said to be on account of old wiring. Horrific tragedy. I always leave a window cracked if cats are left in. Gives them a fighting chance anyway.

The only time I was shocked by full"mains" voltage was when I was assisting my older brother setting up an above ground pool. He told me to cup my hand over a hoae while holding it underwater. Not sure what happened, but I got a real good vibration. Jerked a few tears even I think. I was 9 or 10.

Reply 34 of 84, by Peter.Mengel

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-16, 01:53:
chris2021 wrote on 2022-08-16, 00:49:

I can't help but wonder if there are more electrical fires in Australia and Germany. Maybe not. Maybe the electrical codes are more stringent.

When you grow up with higher mains voltages you learn to be pretty dang respectful of it so we dont have any more electrical fires here than you would normally expect, our codes here are also pretty stringent and most if not all newer homes have RCD based breakers.

And our Ovens are 400v up to 8000 Watt. Its a Special Electric Cable System in as far i know all kitchens in germany.
I guess this is the only System which could harm you if youre doing dumb things.

Reply 35 of 84, by Peter.Mengel

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chris2021 wrote on 2022-08-16, 02:04:

We don't have many here either afaik. A few years back I heard of a lady who had a house full of animals, all trapped imside, fire said to be on account of old wiring. Horrific tragedy. I always leave a window cracked if cats are left in. Gives them a fighting chance anyway.

The only time I was shocked by full"mains" voltage was when I was assisting my older brother setting up an above ground pool. He told me to cup my hand over a hoae while holding it underwater. Not sure what happened, but I got a real good vibration. Jerked a few tears even I think. I was 9 or 10.

Hmm sounds like he tried to get rid of one sibbling xD
Just Kidding.

Reply 36 of 84, by TrashPanda

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Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-08-16, 02:26:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-16, 01:53:
chris2021 wrote on 2022-08-16, 00:49:

I can't help but wonder if there are more electrical fires in Australia and Germany. Maybe not. Maybe the electrical codes are more stringent.

When you grow up with higher mains voltages you learn to be pretty dang respectful of it so we dont have any more electrical fires here than you would normally expect, our codes here are also pretty stringent and most if not all newer homes have RCD based breakers.

And our Ovens are 400v up to 8000 Watt. Its a Special Electric Cable System in as far i know all kitchens in germany.
I guess this is the only System which could harm you if youre doing dumb things.

Doesn't Germany use 3 phase for high amperage devices like Ovens and HVAC ?

HVAC here is usually wired directly to the mains with its own dedicated circuit but the little window mounted AC is run from 15 AMP sockets, Ovens are run from their own dedicated 20 AMP circuit. AFAIK very few houses in Australia have access to 3 phase as its mostly used for industrial reasons here.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 37 of 84, by ODwilly

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antrad wrote on 2022-08-15, 18:39:

I would like to upgrade to a 27" 1440p monitor and buy a GPU for it. Since I only play older games I was thinking of buying something like a used RX 580 or GTX 1070 which should be enough for playing older games on high resolutions.

If 580's seem over priced keep an eye out for 480 8gb cards. Just saw one manufacturer refurbed on a certain site for $105 which seemed pretty reasonable considering the performance compared to a RX 6500. For 1440p I wouldn't bother with a 4gb card.

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Reply 38 of 84, by Standard Def Steve

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 17:58:

Australia is lucky, I can pull ~3000 watts from the wall without killing the breaker, 240-250v AC @ 13amps is a wonderful thing, though if I want to run a 1600watt PSU ill need to use the 15amp wall plug cause they dont put 10amp power leads on 1600watt PSUs.

Hey, I can run a kettle and microwave off of my wimpy 20a/120v Canadian outlet at the same time. And yeah, that's well over 2400w and probably close to 3000w, so it should be tripping the breaker. But it doesn't, and it hasn't started a single fire in the 19 years I've owned this house, so I keep doing it. Huzzah, baby.

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Reply 39 of 84, by TrashPanda

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Standard Def Steve wrote on 2022-08-16, 02:45:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-15, 17:58:

Australia is lucky, I can pull ~3000 watts from the wall without killing the breaker, 240-250v AC @ 13amps is a wonderful thing, though if I want to run a 1600watt PSU ill need to use the 15amp wall plug cause they dont put 10amp power leads on 1600watt PSUs.

Hey, I can run a kettle and microwave off of my wimpy 20a/120v Canadian outlet at the same time. And yeah, that's well over 2400w and probably close to 3000w, so it should be tripping the breaker. But it doesn't, and it hasn't started a single fire in the 19 years I've owned this house, so I keep doing it. Huzzah, baby.

being a 20 AMP line it likely has some nice thick cabling which would help it pull far more than it should.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁