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Reply 20 of 124, by fxgogo

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I just finished my Windows XP/7 machine build today and I love them both, but both are offline only for older software and games. If I touch the online world, it is Windows 10 or Linux only for me. And it will be a few short years before that Windows 10 machine will be pulled offline.

Reply 21 of 124, by chinny22

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My last Windows 7 daily driver laptop died earlier this year, so my 2 main laptops are now Win10 simply because the hardware is fast enough to run it and it's the easiest to install.

I've no love for anything later then XP but I also have no love for my daily drivers -typically old hand me down laptops from work.
It's just a tool for web browsing, print/scanning maybe type up a document every now and then. And while I think Win10 interface is a step backwards really I just need a couple of shortcuts and ignore the rest.

My main retro rig is XP with Office 2003 which is still my preferred Office version so it may do some work as well as burn CD's, file transfers, etc but prefer to keep it off the web to keep it clean from bloat like updates, internet cache, etc.

Reply 23 of 124, by appiah4

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dr_st wrote on 2022-11-22, 14:10:

The only reason to use XP as your main OS is if you use a Pentium 4 is your main PC.

Even then, it's not your best choice.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 24 of 124, by gerwin

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theelf wrote on 2022-11-21, 13:18:

Linux is ok but i really love NT, For me xp feels like the last classic NT, besides 3.x

im thinking in linux in a Pi 3b or 4 and xwin32...

thats why i ask if someone tested this opinion before try myself

I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750.
- Windows XP x86
- Windows 7 x64
- Linux, Solus distribution with MATE 'desktop environment'.

All three have these GUI configurations:
- Windows classic GUI, Similar to Windows 2000 rainy day.
- Default to font MS Sans Serif without cleartype or other anti-aliasing.
- Seldom give me a big white background to look at, but instead grey rgb 200,200,200 background color everywhere.

All three are on their own SSD drive. The Windows installations can't see each-other's C: partitions, the rest is shared. Linux with Grub handles the multiboot interface at startup.

Annoyances remain of course: I hate the Windows 7 explorer file listing auto-sort. It introduced Ribbon "moded" interfaces which take two clicks to do what was done with one. I have also seen it timing out on an update notification and rebooting without my permission. Linux also has some retarded little quirks when doing simple things, like opening a new explorer window exactly on top of the previous one, and having difficulty discerning .txt documents and start-able script files.

Especially the Linux theming took some effort, messing with statements in theme xml files IIRC. Also had to redo many small bitmaps with GUI elements, to make them as pixel perfect as possible. Even generated my own bitmapped font files. As a bonus Linux retains drop-shadows besides/under every window. In hindsight MATE was a good choice to start with, as it is the most classic/conservative desktop environment.
Linux has the usual Wine Windows support and it is pretty good technically, but sometimes a system update breaks some of my Wine configurations, which is very annoying.

I am, mostly, not interested in comments about what is safe online, so I will just leave that subject open.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 25 of 124, by theelf

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dr_st wrote on 2022-11-22, 14:10:

The only reason to use XP as your main OS is if you use a Pentium 4 is your main PC.

If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use in a P3 or a i7

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-22, 17:50:
I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750. - Windows XP x86 - Windows 7 x64 - Li […]
Show full quote
theelf wrote on 2022-11-21, 13:18:

Linux is ok but i really love NT, For me xp feels like the last classic NT, besides 3.x

im thinking in linux in a Pi 3b or 4 and xwin32...

thats why i ask if someone tested this opinion before try myself

I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750.
- Windows XP x86
- Windows 7 x64
- Linux, Solus distribution with MATE 'desktop environment'.

All three have these GUI configurations:
- Windows classic GUI, Similar to Windows 2000 rainy day.
- Default to font MS Sans Serif without cleartype or other anti-aliasing.
- Seldom give me a big white background to look at, but instead grey rgb 200,200,200 background color everywhere.

All three are on their own SSD drive. The Windows installations can't see each-other's C: partitions, the rest is shared. Linux with Grub handles the multiboot interface at startup.

Annoyances remain of course: I hate the Windows 7 explorer file listing auto-sort. It introduced Ribbon "moded" interfaces which take two clicks to do what was done with one. I have also seen it timing out on an update notification and rebooting without my permission. Linux also has some retarded little quirks when doing simple things, like opening a new explorer window exactly on top of the previous one, and having difficulty discerning .txt documents and start-able script files.

Especially the Linux theming took some effort, messing with statements in theme xml files IIRC. Also had to redo many small bitmaps with GUI elements, to make them as pixel perfect as possible. Even generated my own bitmapped font files. As a bonus Linux retains drop-shadows besides/under every window. In hindsight MATE was a good choice to start with, as it is the most classic/conservative desktop environment.
Linux has the usual Wine Windows support and it is pretty good technically, but sometimes a system update breaks some of my Wine configurations, which is very annoying.

I am, mostly, not interested in comments about what is safe online, so I will just leave that subject open.

Hi, i almost dont use linux in my every day. For my work, i have a i5 laptop with XP 32bits and solaris+cde in second partition, i use for work stuff with interfacing cobol in bank server. In my home just XP no other OS, i have a quad xeon and for work stuff only a i7 running XP x64 connected to bank

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Reply 27 of 124, by MarkP

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theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:
If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use i […]
Show full quote
dr_st wrote on 2022-11-22, 14:10:

The only reason to use XP as your main OS is if you use a Pentium 4 is your main PC.

If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use in a P3 or a i7

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-22, 17:50:
I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750. - Windows XP x86 - Windows 7 x64 - Li […]
Show full quote
theelf wrote on 2022-11-21, 13:18:

Linux is ok but i really love NT, For me xp feels like the last classic NT, besides 3.x

im thinking in linux in a Pi 3b or 4 and xwin32...

thats why i ask if someone tested this opinion before try myself

I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750.
- Windows XP x86
- Windows 7 x64
- Linux, Solus distribution with MATE 'desktop environment'.

All three have these GUI configurations:
- Windows classic GUI, Similar to Windows 2000 rainy day.
- Default to font MS Sans Serif without cleartype or other anti-aliasing.
- Seldom give me a big white background to look at, but instead grey rgb 200,200,200 background color everywhere.

All three are on their own SSD drive. The Windows installations can't see each-other's C: partitions, the rest is shared. Linux with Grub handles the multiboot interface at startup.

Annoyances remain of course: I hate the Windows 7 explorer file listing auto-sort. It introduced Ribbon "moded" interfaces which take two clicks to do what was done with one. I have also seen it timing out on an update notification and rebooting without my permission. Linux also has some retarded little quirks when doing simple things, like opening a new explorer window exactly on top of the previous one, and having difficulty discerning .txt documents and start-able script files.

Especially the Linux theming took some effort, messing with statements in theme xml files IIRC. Also had to redo many small bitmaps with GUI elements, to make them as pixel perfect as possible. Even generated my own bitmapped font files. As a bonus Linux retains drop-shadows besides/under every window. In hindsight MATE was a good choice to start with, as it is the most classic/conservative desktop environment.
Linux has the usual Wine Windows support and it is pretty good technically, but sometimes a system update breaks some of my Wine configurations, which is very annoying.

I am, mostly, not interested in comments about what is safe online, so I will just leave that subject open.

Hi, i almost dont use linux in my every day. For my work, i have a i5 laptop with XP 32bits and solaris+cde in second partition, i use for work stuff with interfacing cobol in bank server. In my home just XP no other OS, i have a quad xeon and for work stuff only a i7 running XP x64 connected to bank

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Linux is just fine these days. I've been using it as my main Os for over 15 years.I use Linux Mint Debian Editon5 on all my systems, both 32bit and 64 bit. XP was the last versio Iof MS Windows I used regularly.

Reply 28 of 124, by theelf

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LSS10999 wrote on 2022-11-23, 07:32:
theelf wrote on 2022-11-21, 23:49:

Win7 do this? I dont think so....

Image1.gif

Which Windows build/mod was this screenshot? I'm curious... XP kernel mixed with NT4-like aspects...

XP SP3 just modded to my taste, nothing special

I resedit a lot of resources, and restore some CPLs from NT4

For example I remove all 256 color icons, or 48pz variants, change the windows to look exactly or very similar like NT4

Some things i have no choise than programming my own executable, like the shutdown dialog, and hack explorer to use my shutdown instead the one in shell32

Last edited by theelf on 2022-11-23, 12:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 29 of 124, by appiah4

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MarkP wrote on 2022-11-23, 09:15:
theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:
If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use i […]
Show full quote
dr_st wrote on 2022-11-22, 14:10:

The only reason to use XP as your main OS is if you use a Pentium 4 is your main PC.

If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use in a P3 or a i7

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-22, 17:50:
I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750. - Windows XP x86 - Windows 7 x64 - Li […]
Show full quote

I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750.
- Windows XP x86
- Windows 7 x64
- Linux, Solus distribution with MATE 'desktop environment'.

All three have these GUI configurations:
- Windows classic GUI, Similar to Windows 2000 rainy day.
- Default to font MS Sans Serif without cleartype or other anti-aliasing.
- Seldom give me a big white background to look at, but instead grey rgb 200,200,200 background color everywhere.

All three are on their own SSD drive. The Windows installations can't see each-other's C: partitions, the rest is shared. Linux with Grub handles the multiboot interface at startup.

Annoyances remain of course: I hate the Windows 7 explorer file listing auto-sort. It introduced Ribbon "moded" interfaces which take two clicks to do what was done with one. I have also seen it timing out on an update notification and rebooting without my permission. Linux also has some retarded little quirks when doing simple things, like opening a new explorer window exactly on top of the previous one, and having difficulty discerning .txt documents and start-able script files.

Especially the Linux theming took some effort, messing with statements in theme xml files IIRC. Also had to redo many small bitmaps with GUI elements, to make them as pixel perfect as possible. Even generated my own bitmapped font files. As a bonus Linux retains drop-shadows besides/under every window. In hindsight MATE was a good choice to start with, as it is the most classic/conservative desktop environment.
Linux has the usual Wine Windows support and it is pretty good technically, but sometimes a system update breaks some of my Wine configurations, which is very annoying.

I am, mostly, not interested in comments about what is safe online, so I will just leave that subject open.

Hi, i almost dont use linux in my every day. For my work, i have a i5 laptop with XP 32bits and solaris+cde in second partition, i use for work stuff with interfacing cobol in bank server. In my home just XP no other OS, i have a quad xeon and for work stuff only a i7 running XP x64 connected to bank

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Linux is just fine these days. I've been using it as my main Os for over 15 years.I use Linux Mint Debian Editon5 on all my systems, both 32bit and 64 bit. XP was the last versio Iof MS Windows I used regularly.

I use Mint 21 as my main and I'm also very happy with it as a daily OS. Any reason whey you went with the deb edition?

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 30 of 124, by LSS10999

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theelf wrote on 2022-11-23, 10:08:
XP SP3 just modded to my taste, nothing special […]
Show full quote

XP SP3 just modded to my taste, nothing special

I resedit a lot of resources, and restore some CPLs from NT4

For example I remove all 256 color icons, or 48pz variants, change the windows to look exactly or very similar like NT4

Some things i have no choise than programming my own executable, like the shutdown dialog, and hack explorer to use my shutdown instead the one in shell32

Wow, that's incredible! Good to know that some NT4 CPLs could be made usable on XP.

In my opinion Windows Vista is actually the feature-richest of all Windows versions. It retains a good amount of classic features like XP, plus has some interesting features from Ultimate Extras, especially Dreamscene. Unfortunately most of these features did not carry over to Win7.

Vista was indeed very resource taxing when it just came out, that it was painfully slow on my main PC at that time (a P4 3.0 with 512MB of RAM), so I was not really able to enjoy it while it was still mainstream and stayed on XP for a few more years until I got myself a much better PC capable enough for Vista and above.

With the system specs nowadays, most if not all those performance-related criticisms about Windows Vista no longer stand. I think Win7's requirements were mostly similar to that of Vista's, but it was not as negatively viewed as Vista because the average performance levels of the PCs at the time of Win7's release has improved well enough.

theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Actually there are a bunch of Xfce themes aimed at creating a near-perfect Windows-like experience, covering nearly all Windows versions.

Sadly Linux GUI is still a mess, considering you still need to separately configure appearances for Gtk2/3, Qt, and so on. Not to mention some utilities depend on core DE libraries that you literally have to bring in the entire DE in question in order to install them, bloating the system. On the other hand, Linux CLI software can be very powerful, that many workloads I used to rely on complicated GUI or web programs on Windows can now be trivially done with one-liners in terminals.

I switched to Linux mainly because of Win10. I did try the Win10 insider builds prior to its release, and the days before and after Win10's formal release were quite abysmal. A few builds prior to release there were some breaking changes in the audio stack that left my system in total silence for a few days, while hardware vendors were working on updated drivers to fix the issues, and after Win10's release, its trashy network stack (ndis.sys) at that time was causing huge, intermittent DPC spikes that literally brought the PC to a brief halt, with any audio being played screech like the moment the system was about to BSoD in earlier Windows versions. Even though most of these issues have been addressed as of now, I've already become familiar with Linux and no longer need Windows for most of my use cases anymore...

Reply 31 of 124, by theelf

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LSS10999 wrote on 2022-11-23, 14:16:
Wow, that's incredible! Good to know that some NT4 CPLs could be made usable on XP. […]
Show full quote
theelf wrote on 2022-11-23, 10:08:
XP SP3 just modded to my taste, nothing special […]
Show full quote

XP SP3 just modded to my taste, nothing special

I resedit a lot of resources, and restore some CPLs from NT4

For example I remove all 256 color icons, or 48pz variants, change the windows to look exactly or very similar like NT4

Some things i have no choise than programming my own executable, like the shutdown dialog, and hack explorer to use my shutdown instead the one in shell32

Wow, that's incredible! Good to know that some NT4 CPLs could be made usable on XP.

In my opinion Windows Vista is actually the feature-richest of all Windows versions. It retains a good amount of classic features like XP, plus has some interesting features from Ultimate Extras, especially Dreamscene. Unfortunately most of these features did not carry over to Win7.

Vista was indeed very resource taxing when it just came out, that it was painfully slow on my main PC at that time (a P4 3.0 with 512MB of RAM), so I was not really able to enjoy it while it was still mainstream and stayed on XP for a few more years until I got myself a much better PC capable enough for Vista and above.

With the system specs nowadays, most if not all those performance-related criticisms about Windows Vista no longer stand. I think Win7's requirements were mostly similar to that of Vista's, but it was not as negatively viewed as Vista because the average performance levels of the PCs at the time of Win7's release has improved well enough.

theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Actually there are a bunch of Xfce themes aimed at creating a near-perfect Windows-like experience, covering nearly all Windows versions.

Sadly Linux GUI is still a mess, considering you still need to separately configure appearances for Gtk2/3, Qt, and so on. Not to mention some utilities depend on core DE libraries that you literally have to bring in the entire DE in question in order to install them, bloating the system. On the other hand, Linux CLI software can be very powerful, that many workloads I used to rely on complicated GUI or web programs on Windows can now be trivially done with one-liners in terminals.

I switched to Linux mainly because of Win10. I did try the Win10 insider builds prior to its release, and the days before and after Win10's formal release were quite abysmal. A few builds prior to release there were some breaking changes in the audio stack that left my system in total silence for a few days, while hardware vendors were working on updated drivers to fix the issues, and after Win10's release, its trashy network stack (ndis.sys) at that time was causing huge, intermittent DPC spikes that literally brought the PC to a brief halt, with any audio being played screech like the moment the system was about to BSoD in earlier Windows versions. Even though most of these issues have been addressed as of now, I've already become familiar with Linux and no longer need Windows for most of my use cases anymore...

Hi, in fact a lot of NT4 CPLs work on XP, and some resources inside dll are just copy/paste

Vista is fine, i had a C2D, 2GB ram laptop in work with vista SP2, and works very well, vista still have more classic explorer, but introduce too much changes and almost none NT4/2k/XP cpl and resources work anymore. For example customs gina is impossible anymore

For example, Shutdown dialog, i needed to make my own, simulating NT4, you know, not menu, just the options, and background is checkered, and hack explorer to load instead default one in shell32

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About linux, i feel that maybe one day i will need to use, because i dont like vista+, but yes, is a GUI totally mess, and this make me so tired, i need to work TOO much to have some kind of "GUI harmony" or whatever is the english word to describe i want to enjoy my desktop GUI exactly same i enjoy programming, web browsing or playing a game. For me all is same important

And beside this, most of the software I use is windows only, office 2000, Paint Shop Pro, Visual Studio 6, winrar, etc just to say some, and I feel that use linux+wine all time, better to just use windows

Reply 32 of 124, by MarkP

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Linux is fine as an everyday OS. I use Linux Mint Debian 5 on all of my systems, both 64bit and 32 bit, including my P4 desktop. And I don't have to be a programmer to use it

Reply 33 of 124, by gerwin

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theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

So in one way you are tolerant to GUI change, in other ways you are not 😉

For what it is worth, I attached a screenshot of my Linux GUI overhaul. Quite satisfied with how far I could take it. It is Dutch language.
Just that linux .otb bitmap font rendering has some small bugs. Otb fonts are the only way to get it like this, AFAIK.

Note that I am not recommending anything. Just posting in this thread because I can relate to it.
The OS situation is, to me, a problem without a solution on the horizon. I will probably keep mixing all possible approaches, to mitigate things.
Some context; IT-Vision on Windows 10 / 11 / Linux

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-23, 19:57:

Linux is fine as an everyday OS. I use Linux Mint Debian 5 on all of my systems, both 64bit and 32 bit, including my P4 desktop. And I don't have to be a programmer to use it

I am glad the Linux I use sometimes is responsive, quite reliable and mostly self-configuring for common use.
But Wine is of course no real Windows, and things like drag and drop don't work last time I checked, which can be really annoying when working with many files.
Native engineering/CAD software for Linux is pretty much non-existent.
If I would put Linux on a system in the office, and a trainee would be assigned to that seat, and would start (libre) office, then they will surely nag that it is too different from what they used in school and at home. I remember they already disapprove when MS Office is a few versions behind current.

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--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 34 of 124, by MarkP

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-23, 10:19:
MarkP wrote on 2022-11-23, 09:15:
theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use in a P3 or a i7

Hi, i almost dont use linux in my every day. For my work, i have a i5 laptop with XP 32bits and solaris+cde in second partition, i use for work stuff with interfacing cobol in bank server. In my home just XP no other OS, i have a quad xeon and for work stuff only a i7 running XP x64 connected to bank

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Linux is just fine these days. I've been using it as my main Os for over 15 years.I use Linux Mint Debian Editon5 on all my systems, both 32bit and 64 bit. XP was the last versio Iof MS Windows I used regularly.

I use Mint 21 as my main and I'm also very happy with it as a daily OS. Any reason whey you went with the deb edition?

Mainly because Debian was one of the main early distros, it run on a lot of different architectures and with a touch of Mint 😉.

XFCE4 sorted the "GUI" issue over two decades ago.

You don't need to be a programmer to use it !

Reply 35 of 124, by LSS10999

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gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 22:06:

Native engineering/CAD software for Linux is pretty much non-existent.
If I would put Linux on a system in the office, and a trainee would be assigned to that seat, and would start (libre) office, then they will surely nag that it is too different from what they used in school and at home. I remember they already disapprove when MS Office is a few versions behind current.

There are already some cross-platform and open-source engineering tools such as LibreCAD, KiCAD and so on. However, it can be a bit different from what most people use so one would have to learn again.

As licenses for those well-known proprietary engineering/CAD software can be very very expensive, these open-source alternatives can be very useful for individuals and small businesses, and are already being used to some extent.

LibreOffice (previously OpenOffice) already existed for a while. While it's constantly improving, I'm still having issues with it, such as cursors going into nowhere and any inputs while in this state could lead to unexpected results, and even crashes. Also LibreOffice is not 100% M$-office compatible (and it will never be), so it'll only be useful if everyone around you is familiar with LibreOffice and can accept such documents.

Reply 36 of 124, by MarkP

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gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 22:06:
So in one way you are tolerant to GUI change, in other ways you are not ;) […]
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theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

So in one way you are tolerant to GUI change, in other ways you are not 😉

For what it is worth, I attached a screenshot of my Linux GUI overhaul. Quite satisfied with how far I could take it. It is Dutch language.
Just that linux .otb bitmap font rendering has some small bugs. Otb fonts are the only way to get it like this, AFAIK.

Note that I am not recommending anything. Just posting in this thread because I can relate to it.
The OS situation is, to me, a problem without a solution on the horizon. I will probably keep mixing all possible approaches, to mitigate things.
Some context; IT-Vision on Windows 10 / 11 / Linux

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-23, 19:57:

Linux is fine as an everyday OS. I use Linux Mint Debian 5 on all of my systems, both 64bit and 32 bit, including my P4 desktop. And I don't have to be a programmer to use it

I am glad the Linux I use sometimes is responsive, quite reliable and mostly self-configuring for common use.
But Wine is of course no real Windows, and things like drag and drop don't work last time I checked, which can be really annoying when working with many files.
Native engineering/CAD software for Linux is pretty much non-existent.
If I would put Linux on a system in the office, and a trainee would be assigned to that seat, and would start (libre) office, then they will surely nag that it is too different from what they used in school and at home. I remember they already disapprove when MS Office is a few versions behind current.

MS can release anew version of Office when ever they like, they own it. Editing on any word processing software isn't exactly hard. Just because a piece of software is old does not mean it is not fit for the purpose is was originally designed for either.

I can have that custom Mate look n feel from version three of KDE from over a decade and a half ago. It's built in the the installation.

But keep going please.

Last edited by MarkP on 2022-11-24, 06:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 37 of 124, by Ensign Nemo

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Another thing in favour of Linux is the command line. It is far more powerful than anything shipped with a DOS or Windows OS. It might not seem like a big deal when you're used to using a GUI, but there's so many things that it opens up. I have terabytes of data that I'm hoarding, but I can write simple scripts to organize files how I like. For example, I have thousands of pdfs from various scientific journals on my computer. I wrote a script to rename them according to their title and organize them by publication. I also have a little Linux based server on my home network that I use as a NAS device. It's managed purely using the command line.

If it weren't for games and few other programs that require Windows, I'd use Linux exclusively outside of retrogaming.

Reply 38 of 124, by zyga64

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LSS10999 wrote on 2022-11-24, 04:05:
There are already some cross-platform and open-source engineering tools such as LibreCAD, KiCAD and so on. However, it can be a […]
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gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 22:06:

Native engineering/CAD software for Linux is pretty much non-existent.
If I would put Linux on a system in the office, and a trainee would be assigned to that seat, and would start (libre) office, then they will surely nag that it is too different from what they used in school and at home. I remember they already disapprove when MS Office is a few versions behind current.

There are already some cross-platform and open-source engineering tools such as LibreCAD, KiCAD and so on. However, it can be a bit different from what most people use so one would have to learn again.

As licenses for those well-known proprietary engineering/CAD software can be very very expensive, these open-source alternatives can be very useful for individuals and small businesses, and are already being used to some extent.

LibreOffice (previously OpenOffice) already existed for a while. While it's constantly improving, I'm still having issues with it, such as cursors going into nowhere and any inputs while in this state could lead to unexpected results, and even crashes. Also LibreOffice is not 100% M$-office compatible (and it will never be), so it'll only be useful if everyone around you is familiar with LibreOffice and can accept such documents.

LibreOffice (OpenOffice) is no longer the only player in the Linux office suite market. There are already excellent: WPS Office, OnlyOffice and Softmaker Office/FreeOffice.
MS Office compatibility is better with those office suites (than with LibreOffice). So we have a choice 😀

If we talk about CAD programs, unfortunately the excellent DraftSight has been discontinued for Linux. Its compatibility with Autocad 2D was very high, also the GUI faithfully reproduced the one from Autocad.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4MB /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16MB /TGUI9440 /YMF718+GUS
3) i440BX /P!!!750 /256MB /MX440 /SBLive!+Vibra16s
4) iG31 /E8400 /4GB /X1950GT /HDA

Reply 39 of 124, by gerwin

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LSS10999 wrote on 2022-11-24, 04:05:

There are already some cross-platform and open-source engineering tools such as LibreCAD, KiCAD and so on. However, it can be a bit different from what most people use so one would have to learn again.
As licenses for those well-known proprietary engineering/CAD software can be very very expensive, these open-source alternatives can be very useful for individuals and small businesses, and are already being used to some extent.

I checked some Linux CAD things out in 2019. But ended up trying to put and old version AutoCAD on Linux through Wine. That worked OK for a while, but it is now borked by Wine updates.
Anyways, I will check Linux CAD availability again sometimes, because I cannot remember exactly. Note that I am not complaining, nor am I putting much time into something that ain't really working. Just experimenting for my own interest.

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:07:

MS can release anew version of Office when ever they like, they own it. Editing on any word processing software isn't exactly hard. Just because a piece of software is old does not mean it is not fit for the purpose is was originally designed for either.

I know man. It is not about me. What it is about, in my engineering work in a small business situation:
- I cannot see how the MS Windows dependency can be avoided in our business. It can be reduced maybe, but then there would be two types of OS to maintain. By me that is, and I have less then 5% of my time available for IT. If my profession was different, then maybe Linux would be an option, but not in this place. It don't like it, vendor lock-in and all, but at least it is clear.
- New and existing employees have certain computing preferences, and I have to find a compromise between my IT practicalities/principles and their preferences. When I introduce non-mainstream software, I am taking a risk that it will annoy them. I can tell you exactly what kind of situations you will get when their "annoyance threshold" is reached, but I suppose you can imagine. At worst they will take another job, and good luck finding a replacement.

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:07:

I can have that custom Mate look n feel from version three of KDE from over a decade and a half ago. It's built in the the installation.

But keep going please.

Well, that is great. Pictures?
First time I installed Linux at home was 2019 or so. Had to start somewhere, and had to choose some distribution. All Windows Classic MATE themes I could find then, were only halfway there, or maybe not 100% compatible. So I finished/fixed it. That is all.

Last edited by gerwin on 2022-11-24, 16:19. Edited 1 time in total.

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