Errius wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:46:

I'm pretty sure movies have always sucked. We forget the bad ones and remember the good ones, giving the impression that things were better in the past. They weren't.

it is as with music - there is a massive continuous output of mediocre media and most of it is soon forgotten, when we remember the past we remember the good stuff hence we think the average quality is higher because we discount the trash

are a large number of modern movies deliberately riddled with political messaging and is some of that totally lopsided creating straw man (lol) versions of out of favor groups to be diminished by in favor groups? sure, to pretend otherwise is to be deliberately obtuse and to pretend there is something 'balanced' about it is to reveal a skewed view of people as 'categories'. However many films still dont do this. I saw Extraction recently, a no nonsense actioner, an example.

That happened back in the past too, remember when any given business person was almost certain to be a bad person in movies, just one example

what i dislike in much modern media is the fact that so much 'IP' exists and has swapped ownership that things like star wars et are just drained to the last cent. i accept that as long as someone pays bills it will happen but it means lengthy series of reboots, prequels, re-imaginings and sequels. It's like watching a favoured band release poorer and poorer records, go on 'last ever' tours a few times and finally sell the last cents of worth by becoming advert music

i think many long for something original to come along or at least something fresher like Everything Everywhere All At Once.

remember Tremors - a fun b-movie that worked - remember the 3 sequels? the same has been happening for quite some time, just seems to be happening in bigger and worse ways now (star wars, terminator, anything to do with superheroes)

and on superheroes - no, genuinely don't care anymore, endless series of films churned out seemingly month after month. Who can stay interested in all that!

There's nothing wrong with propaganda so long as it's entertaining. Don't bore your audience! Above all, don't preach at them.

This isn't a new complaint. Chaplin's 'Great Dictator' is spoiled by that stupid speech at the end where he literally preaches at the audience from a pulpit. The movie spends an hour making Nazis and Fascists look ridiculous and wicked, then spends another hour (well that's how it feels) telling you that they're ridiculous and wicked. Completely unnecessary.

(Apparently there was a similar controversy during production of the 1950s anti-capital punishment movie "I Want to Live!". The studio wanted to insert a Chaplin-style lecture at the end denouncing capital punishment, but the director put his foot down and refused, arguing that the movie didn't need it.)

I watched the new movie Triangle of Sadness last night. Impressive dark comedy. Totally restored my faith in cinema again. Highly recommend it.

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:35:

>Do movies suck these days?
Turn off the tele and read some 70's 80's science fiction or something. Much better for you.
*Please mark as accepted solution.*

Accepted! Any suggestions?

buckeye wrote on 2022-11-23, 21:49:

This is an "off shoot" of another post which touched on this subject somewhat. I'd like to hear everyone's take on this genre as […]
Show full quote

This is an "off shoot" of another post which touched on this subject somewhat. I'd like to hear everyone's take on this
genre as I'm a "old fossil" who grew up on stan lee comics, Kung Fu, Starsky and Hutch and etc. so may be jaded how I
view this.

Are not movies supposed to be about entertainment and distraction from this screwed up world we now inhabit? Seems
more and more it's more about powerful messages, equal rep, female empowerment and other political overtones. When
you enlist someone to direct say the movie Eternals or the She Hulk series and they confess never having read the comics
or source material is that not a obvious attempt to push forward a specific agenda? For what purpose?

Some examples:

Men routinely depicted as neutered weaklings, especially white men.
White characters made black.
Male characters made female.
Any other examples you care to offer?

Let say this at the forefront, I'm not racist . Samuel Jackson took a white character and hit it out of the park. Jason Mamoa took Aquaman and did the same (he's not black but samoan).
What if the reverse were to happen? Might be a cold day in hell but what if Ryan Reynolds took over the role of Luke Cage? Or if Alan Ritchson took on the role of Black Panther?
Would that go over acceptably? Speaking about Black Panther, how do you feel about the role going to a woman? Chadwick Boseman GOD rest his soul was tailor made for that role.
That being said why deny another male actor the opportunity? Aldis Hodge would be one, Michael Jordan (think multiverse) are just a couple that could pull it off.

Note I've not seen Wakanda Forever so cannot say much about the quality of that movie. I will say didn't care for the 1st movie's rendering of Black Panther relative to Captain
America's Civil War, he was "kickass" in that one. Would like to hear from those that have seen the movie Wakanda Forever!

I've seen Black Adam and enjoyed it, has a lot of action and Dwayne Johnson fits the role to a tee. Aldris Hodge as Hawkman had me skeptical for the above reasons but he pulled
it off due to his ability/stage presence. The after credits scene was a smart move on DC's part.

Sorry for the rant and I'll stop here cause like to hear the comments from you all out there on this subject matter. Do superhero movies suck these days? Movies in general?

Oh...I lost interest in movies long ago.
You might still find good stuff among independent movies from all over the world though, just not in Hollywood.
Nordics and Poles, for instance, have developed a very nice "school" of TV series in the vain of "Forbrydelsen", "Broen", "W głębi lasu", etc

Just started watching "1899", so far so good.

I believe discussing the (manifest) anti "cis-white-male" agenda is not acceptable in this kind of forum.

My feeling regarding this topic is that humanity have got a tool (cinema) which people have not enough brains to use properly.

In past years there were plenty of movies which are considered now classical and genius. But if to try watching them nowadays they look awful to say the least. In my opinion it is due to the fact that in those days cinema was quite young and there was nothing to compare with.

Nowadays cinema matured in technology and acting regard and divided into two main streams, movies and series, and it is obvious that there are more great series than movies. But both types have the same problem - awful scripts and directing. If in most good series those problems rise in late seasons ruining the whole series, in movies this problem exists in 98% of all movies.

Sad but true ...

DosFreak wrote on 2022-11-24, 00:17:

You should already know you can't have a discussion about white men, female empowerment, gender and race switching and politics […]
Show full quote

You should already know you can't have a discussion about white men, female empowerment, gender and race switching and politics without being shouted down as part of the problem. No one is a able to have a grown up conversation. Best bet would be to remove that from your post since I can only assume you added those to get more responses. The neglect of men is an issue but short sighted humans are incapable of tackling things until the problem is unmanageable. We are in the early stages of this becoming apparent to most people, I hope. There are many examples of controlling the narative but one of the easiest is the persecution of witches which is commonly portrayed as female persecution but men were persecuted as well in a sizeable amount but that doesn't fit the narrative.

There is a ton of media out there so unless you've watched them all then you can't say they all "suck". Define "suck". Do some or even most suck? Undoubtedly. Do superhero movies "suck"? Not unless they do, but they aren't very good and aren't designed to be. They are popcorn movies.

All movies are not strictly for entertainment, comics are not movies and movies are not comics. Sometimes it's a good thing that a director is not familiar with the source.

Streaming is just a technology it doesn't nevessarily factor on runtime, other factors mainly decide this. You have those that want serialized shows vs those that don't. Shows designed to be long vs those designed to be short. Shows designed to have 24 episodes that may have a lot of bloat vs those that may be only 4, 6 or 8 episodes.

The first ever movie "sucked" so you could say movies have always "sucked".

You're right I should've known better. Did not mean to ruffle feathers or hurt someone's feelings but apparently I did. I am sorry for those that were offended.

rmay635703 wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:52:

Errius wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:46:

I'm pretty sure movies have always sucked. We forget the bad ones and remember the good ones, giving the impression that things were better in the past. They weren't.

Agreed, op should start watching RedLetterMedia, we used to enjoy a lot of slop it appears

Star Wars™, AIDS, 9/11. A one stop shop for the big three.

buckeye wrote on 2022-11-24, 20:08:

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:35:

>Do movies suck these days?
Turn off the tele and read some 70's 80's science fiction or something. Much better for you.
*Please mark as accepted solution.*

Accepted! Any suggestions?

Great!
As for suggestions, I will list a few that I read not too long ago, and still approve of:

• Larry Niven (+ Pournelle): A world out of Time + The Mote in God's Eye (plus its sequel) + Integral trees + Smoke Ring + Protector
• Russell, Eric Frank: Wasp
• Jack Vance: To Live Forever (wow 1956..)
• I also got to read most of the original Thorgal comics, and found them quite good in all ways. That is fantasy instead of SF. Of course there also Blake en Mortimer or XIII. Storm can be a bit cheesy but always redeems it with interesting artwork.

Then alternate it with your preferred comedy. 😀

Don't get the chance to watch movies much but watched Ghostbusters After life earlier this year and enjoyed it. Yes it was playing up to my nostalga for the first 2 films but thought they got the balance about right and felt different enough to be a movie in it's own right.

Not the newest movie but finally got around to watching Sully: Miracle on the Hudson and enjoyed myself even if it wont make it to my top 10 favorite movies.

It's no secret the whole "superhero movie with loads of cgi " is over represented at the moment but each decade has their equivalent. Spaghetti Westerns of the 60's and B grade action movies of the 80's are my guilty pleasures.

About modern movies, well if someone has seen a good part of the ones that are considered best movies of the 1960, 70, 80 and 90 , imho there's a good reason to say modern ones add nothing more compared to those and fails when valued in each specific sector, story, photography, music, direction, actors compatibility with the characters, etc..
I don't even consider most superhero movies which in the last decades became too many and I don't even look at their trailers anymore but I'd consider those movies that doesn't even need computer graphic to render things that are useless for the story when not even decrease the quality itself of the movie. Like a book, it doesn't need CG to be a great book or a bad one.

There were always many commercial "popcorn movies" (but not only these, also many movies with deep stories) even in the past but good directors, actors, music composers, make some simple movies to be remembered also thanks to realistic acting, emotions, no CG for few basic real special effects. I'm not sure movies are usually always a product to 'free our mind' instead like a book they should give an experience with a personal message that theorically comes from the movie director or the acting/story itself. Nowdays I see many movies having unrealistic stories, acting, enviroments, that are not the mirror of the real world at all. And no emotions or messages or feelings remains, just another useless consumable product for the consumers beside buying the theater ticket, the DVD/BlueRay disc or on a streaming platform. Nothing remains watching many modern movies at least for me, which doesn't mean that sometimes few very good movies aren't released unexepectedly and can be remembered for much time.

Of course it also depends on the country the movie is written for and sometimes local low budget commercial movies could be much better than some commercial movies that cost 500 times more but many will still prefer the second.
So it is the amount of "movies that will be remembered" compared to the ones that will be forgotten forever that changed over the years. And the reason probably is lack of ideas and having as main (or only) priority not trying to make a movie that will remains "forever" but to make one that will sell the most before any personal message that should comes first. Nowdays I'd have a difficult time to even choose a theater movie before buying the ticket. So, quantity to compensate the lack of idea and quality, like many TV series.

(Sorry for my basic English)

386SX wrote on 2022-11-26, 10:39:

About modern movies, well if someone has seen a good part of the ones that are considered best movies of the 1960, 70, 80 and 90 , imho there's a good reason to say modern ones add nothing more compared to those and fails when valued in each specific sector, story, photography, music, direction, actors compatibility with the characters, etc..
I don't even consider most superhero movies which in the last decades became too many and I don't even look at their trailers anymore but I'd consider those movies that doesn't even need computer graphic to render things that are useless for the story when not even decrease the quality itself of the movie. Like a book, it doesn't need CG to be a great book or a bad one.

One of the trends I wanted to point out was the over reliance on CGI at the expense of everything else. In the old days the tech wasn't there so they had to focus (hopefully) on the screenplay, music and etc.
Can't think of a recent movie where they managed to balance all that out.

chinny22 wrote on 2022-11-25, 13:11:

Don't get the chance to watch movies much but watched Ghostbusters After life earlier this year and enjoyed it. Yes it was playing up to my nostalga for the first 2 films but thought they got the balance about right and felt different enough to be a movie in it's own right.

Not the newest movie but finally got around to watching Sully: Miracle on the Hudson and enjoyed myself even if it wont make it to my top 10 favorite movies.

It's no secret the whole "superhero movie with loads of cgi " is over represented at the moment but each decade has their equivalent. Spaghetti Westerns of the 60's and B grade action movies of the 80's are my guilty pleasures.

Sully was very good, didn't get to the Ghostbusters After Life yet but will check it out.

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-11-24, 20:18:

Nowadays cinema matured in technology and acting regard and divided into two main streams, movies and series, and it is obvious that there are more great series than movies. But both types have the same problem - awful scripts and directing. If in most good series those problems rise in late seasons ruining the whole series, in movies this problem exists in 98% of all movies.

Sad but true ...

Yes, awful scripts and directing seems to be the norm lately.

Wonder if the new movie "Avatar The Way of Water" is going to fall prey to this or if it even come close to the success of it's predecessor.

leileilol wrote on 2022-11-24, 00:14:

There's plenty of reasons to not like new movies without going into some "i'm not racist but" white cishet alpha male fantasy bi […]
Show full quote

There's plenty of reasons to not like new movies without going into some "i'm not racist but" white cishet alpha male fantasy bigoted vile fascist horseshit, like:

- marvel crunching and underpaying VFX studios for the annual power spandex fests
- half-hearted LGBTQ+ representation conveniently edited out for overseas markets
- "reboot" sequels for the sake of retaining an IP

On the "under paid VFX studio" front remember reading ImaginationFX magazine and several of the artists touched on this. They work under crushing pressure
and ridiculously long hours, I couldn't do it that's for sure.

buckeye wrote on 2022-11-23, 21:49:

This is an "off shoot" of another post which touched on this subject somewhat. I'd like to hear everyone's take on this genre as […]
Show full quote

This is an "off shoot" of another post which touched on this subject somewhat. I'd like to hear everyone's take on this
genre as I'm a "old fossil" who grew up on stan lee comics, Kung Fu, Starsky and Hutch and etc. so may be jaded how I
view this.

Are not movies supposed to be about entertainment and distraction from this screwed up world we now inhabit? Seems
more and more it's more about powerful messages, equal rep, female empowerment and other political overtones. When
you enlist someone to direct say the movie Eternals or the She Hulk series and they confess never having read the comics
or source material is that not a obvious attempt to push forward a specific agenda? For what purpose?

I don't think revamps of existing characters and stories are a new thing. In fact, almost every movie made based on a novel or a comic has to be adapted and changed somewhat in order to properly work on-screen. I think what you're probably after here is whether this is being done in good taste and within the spirit of the source-material.

buckeye wrote on 2022-11-23, 21:49:

Some examples: Men routinely depicted as neutered weaklings, especially white men. White characters made black. Male characters […]
Show full quote

Some examples:
Men routinely depicted as neutered weaklings, especially white men.
White characters made black.
Male characters made female.
Any other examples you care to offer?

You're probably not off base making this observation for some material that is out there now. It seems that many up-and-coming people in the TV/movie-business are either a) trying to compensate for their own internal racist or sexist thinking by projecting it on screen ("look at how NOT racist/sexist/etc. I am by making these poignant changes") or are alternatively b) lazily pandering to the target groups ("women don't care about SpiderMan, so let's make SpiderGirl instead")... There's always also option of c) horrid incompetence following bad management and the needless want to change things up for the sake of wanting to be seen as innovative. To be fair, we often complain that we only get lazy reboots and sequels, so many will doubtless try to distinguish themselves from the crowd that always plays everything safe.

buckeye wrote on 2022-11-23, 21:49:

Let say this at the forefront, I'm not racist . Samuel Jackson took a white character and hit it out of the park. Jason Mamoa to […]
Show full quote

Let say this at the forefront, I'm not racist . Samuel Jackson took a white character and hit it out of the park. Jason Mamoa took Aquaman and did the same (he's not black but samoan).
What if the reverse were to happen? Might be a cold day in hell but what if Ryan Reynolds took over the role of Luke Cage? Or if Alan Ritchson took on the role of Black Panther?
Would that go over acceptably? Speaking about Black Panther, how do you feel about the role going to a woman? Chadwick Boseman GOD rest his soul was tailor made for that role.
That being said why deny another male actor the opportunity? Aldis Hodge would be one, Michael Jordan (think multiverse) are just a couple that could pull it off.

I'm doubtful most people really care if a reversal or change in details is done for a good reason or at least in good taste. For example, they did a sex swap for the character of Starbuck for the relaunched BattleStar Galactica TV-series. I'm sure it put off some viewers, but I really liked the new show and did not get stuck on that. They also made the president of the colonies a woman - and again I think the change was done without much chestbeating and the character was well enough written that it did not bother me in the least.

buckeye wrote on 2022-11-23, 21:49:

Sorry for the rant and I'll stop here cause like to hear the comments from you all out there on this subject matter. Do superhero movies suck these days? Movies in general?

I didn't comment on some of the specific movies etc. that you mentioned since I didn't see any of those, but I'll just point out that there have always been bad movies and bad super hero movies too. Maybe what you're onto is today's particular trend of bad movies - which specifically involves tired tropes (such as "a woman can be kick-ass / superhero too") or that so much of what is produced seems to rely on empty visuals (since these are so easy to produce, compared to before) in order to create feelings in the viewer, rather than good storytelling.

I would argue it’s more basic than that, the buffoonish male has been around “forever “ because we are a safe target.

You do have the “decision by committee” movies but those are mostly superhero and big budget. They usually have to hardline to Chinese sensitivities due to the possible $$$ from that region
The front runners are given their jobs writing usually due to their past appeal to a target demographic , the fact they are “inclusive “ only mirrors the audience viewpoints .
If they fail to read their demographic they won’t $$$$ which also happens.
meaning you probably aren’t their intended audience . (Like elderly men getting bent out of shape over a kids show like the little mermaid, while many little girls are looking forward to the show)

Many writing the scripts for movies you dislike
likely make what they make without any real active thought process, they likely don’t realize they are offending you and if they figure it out they will make up reasons for it after the fact without any concern about fallout.
Many properties that have come under fire were still very popular, so the objective of the movie was met even if a subset of the population is enraged.
If a movie is bad, or far too tired of a series and doesn’t appeal to a demographic it won’t matter how offensive or inoffensive it is, it will fail and the studio won’t make further films in that vein.

Much of The slop that rapidly spews out these days is off the cuff without the level of thought required to make a cohesive plot let alone cohesively make a social commentary. (Aka it’s accidental if it does)

Writing has always had bias, just because the bias is much more variable doesn’t mean it’s any different than it was years ago , just social goalposts have moved, the amount of review and scrutiny before release is usually changed or gone altogether
and those in the industry are writing what they want and seeing what sticks.

Because of how diverse the audience is now many subjects that would make good film get overlooked due to the profit motive, it’s even harder for a studio to release films in many genres which is why we have superheroes ad nausea as it’s considered safe.

Kinda sad nothing else really makes enough money to greenlight anymore.

Likely you won’t see anything like hammer films returning

Big Pink wrote on 2022-11-24, 21:05:

rmay635703 wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:52:

Errius wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:46:

I'm pretty sure movies have always sucked. We forget the bad ones and remember the good ones, giving the impression that things were better in the past. They weren't.

Agreed, op should start watching RedLetterMedia, we used to enjoy a lot of slop it appears

Star Wars™, AIDS, 9/11. A one stop shop for the big three.

The op seems to be mad a certain subset is made fun of and demonized.

RLM is pretty objective at making fun of everyone which is why it’s worth watching occasionally, they seem to be able to rise above our new and stupefied political/gender based BS with something offensive everyone can enjoy.

The op could also watch RLM so he doesn’t have to watch the movies directly using RLM as human shield while making the movie shorter, more humorous and easier to watch.

And of coarse they do have the likeable Rich Evans who reminds everyone of that one friend from high school.
Rich evens out the Mikes of the world

Errius wrote on 2022-11-23, 23:46:

I'm pretty sure movies have always sucked. We forget the bad ones and remember the good ones, giving the impression that things were better in the past. They weren't.

You nailed it, Errius.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-11-24, 04:24:

...Star Trek TOS, in which diversity simply felt reasonable, progressive and honest...

I disagree. When Star Trek TOS was new, the presence of female officers on the bridge was a provocative political statement in favor of gender equality. (In the pilot episode, the captain complains, "I can't get used to having a woman on the bridge." Spoiler: He gets used to it.)

Culture changes over time. What was once incendiary (e.g. interracial marriage) can become accepted. As a person who is a minority in one way, I'm thankful for the western media's promotion of tolerance because viewers are affected by the media that they consume.

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-11-24, 11:23:

...As for the political stuff in movies, that's sadly pretty much impossible to discuss in a civilized manner.

Yet here we are. Hooray for us!

STX wrote on 2022-11-28, 20:19:

As a person who is a minority in one way, I'm thankful for the western media's promotion of tolerance because viewers are affected by the media that they consume.

Mankind is in a sad state, when being told what to think (here, by TV) is considered a good thing.

Anders- wrote on 2022-11-28, 21:03:

STX wrote on 2022-11-28, 20:19:

As a person who is a minority in one way, I'm thankful for the western media's promotion of tolerance because viewers are affected by the media that they consume.

Mankind is in a sad state, when being told what to think (here, by TV) is considered a good thing.

Is that new though?

When did it become haneous to watch something you might disagree with and have an opinion ?

Before tv there was radio and film, before film there was paper. All media presented things from a certain point of view, it’s not new.

Being exposed to how someone else sees the world can be valuable.