Having seen the scale of operations at the local computer recycling center, I expect very little is actually saved. Probably well under 1%.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-03-05, 20:08:

Having seen the scale of operations at the local computer recycling center, I expect very little is actually saved. Probably well under 1%.

Ive always found it absurd how vintage PC parts, CRT TVs, old game consoles, etc can be selling for $25 to $250 or even up on eBay, yet go to any recycling center and you will find "rare and expensive" components galore. And promptly be told they cant be sold to you for some BS reason (even if you offer many times the scrap value)

I guess you have to look at it a bit more in detail though.
If we pick a year, lets just say 2020
How many PC's were sold that year and what percentage was boring office PC's from the likes of HP, Dell, etc vs Cheap rubbish home PC's vs "interesting" PC's
In this day and age when companies and the average user is more likely to own a laptop I wouldn't be surprised if the first 2 categories make up over 95% of what sold, maybe even upto 99%?
So I agree probably less then 1% is saved but while thats a low percentage alot of it was undesirable anyway.

Wasn't always this way. Only in the last 10 years or so people have been concerned with ewaste, files on old computers, etc which really killed off the 2nd hand market. where as before it was typical to simply give away old PC's

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-05, 21:34:

Ive always found it absurd how vintage PC parts, CRT TVs, old game consoles, etc can be selling for $25 to $250 or even up on eBay, yet go to any recycling center and you will find "rare and expensive" components galore. And promptly be told they cant be sold to you for some BS reason (even if you offer many times the scrap value)

the relative difficulty in stopping people considering a second life for 'trash' is bizarre - so much good stuff is being thrown away each day, things that can help people or just be used in hobbies - all of it jealously guarded right into the landfill

its tempting to think its a conspiracy in favor of buying new but i suspect its perhaps influenced by that but more influenced by fear of litigation ("i got electrocuted by this old toaster now its your fault!") and the weight of bureaucracy demanding inflexible adherence to processes

chinny22 wrote on 2023-03-06, 09:44:

I guess you have to look at it a bit more in detail though. If we pick a year, lets just say 2020 How many PC's were sold that y […]
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I guess you have to look at it a bit more in detail though.
If we pick a year, lets just say 2020
How many PC's were sold that year and what percentage was boring office PC's from the likes of HP, Dell, etc vs Cheap rubbish home PC's vs "interesting" PC's
In this day and age when companies and the average user is more likely to own a laptop I wouldn't be surprised if the first 2 categories make up over 95% of what sold, maybe even upto 99%?
So I agree probably less then 1% is saved but while thats a low percentage alot of it was undesirable anyway.

Wasn't always this way. Only in the last 10 years or so people have been concerned with ewaste, files on old computers, etc which really killed off the 2nd hand market. where as before it was typical to simply give away old PC's

under 1% does seem likely then

those boring PCs make marvellous emulators and surprisingly good for older gog titles though (and useful as cheap browsers, hobby dev machines etc) such that it seems a shame to lose them too

Yeh I've nothing against giving an office PC a second life as typically get the PC for free and working within it's limitations can be a fun challenge.
But we are definitely in the minority, doubt enough demand exists for more then 1% of this class of PC to exist.

Of course most of it is destroyed recycled, the OEMs wouldn't have it any other way - last year's sales are an obstacle to this year's sales. Get ready for the great TPM 2.0 sloughage!

I don't think anything gets stored anymore. Corporations buy or lease equipment and ditch them to resellers who flog them on ebay. The end users buy new or used and recycle them after they get old or slow.

A long time ago when computers were not that common and extremely expensive people would store them because of sunk costs and as a backup. These days where you can buy a new laptop for hundred and not thousands of dollars people just give them to their kids who destroy them or just recycle them.

The only stuff that might get saved are the expensive gaming GPUs and motherboards which is probably a very very small percentage of computer sales. Kind of like how some people just keep their old gaming consoles instead of recycling them.

Big Pink wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:27:

Of course most of it is destroyed recycled, the OEMs wouldn't have it any other way - last year's sales are an obstacle to this year's sales. Get ready for the great TPM 2.0 sloughage!

90s Beige boxes aren't obstacles to this years sales though.

Specifically for my local recycler, they have a contract with the county that specifically forbids them from reselling or allowing the reuse of anything they take in within the county. I know for a fact some of its getting shipped down to Kentucky for god knows what usage because I found something I recycled (a CRT TV with a VERY specific type of damage to the case) at a thrift store down there.

Part of its definetely litigation. Not just the "this old computer burned my house down" but also "My identity was stolen, did you actually destroy my old computer?!". People in our disposable society value that certificate of destruction more than anything else I guess.

Also, the AIW R9700 Pro showed up and it has issues. For $42 fucking dollars I would expect a card to actually be tested PROPERLY. It runs fine in BIOs and on desktop without drivers but as soon as you load up the drivers it starts crashing and artifacting on desktop, and DXDiag and 3DMark report the card has zero 3D capabilities. It really pisses me off that seemingly EVERY single eBay seller is essentially scamming people selling either untested or improperly tested garbage for $$$. I'm convinced there is zero overlap between "good human beings" and "ebay sellers" at this point. The last 2 years (ever since retro comps start taking off during COVID) literally every other item I've received has been defective.

EDIT: well it turns out checking what thread your in matters. Reply fits here anyways so it stays *Shrugs*

How much effort do you think people are going to put into testing an AGP video card other than seeing if it boots to BIOS? How many ebay sellers even have a AGP 4/8x capable machine sitting around loaded with W98SE/ME full of games to run a test with?

Generally, I only get mad when a card is said to be tested and it shows up with major physical damage, burn marks, and or missing parts not found in the packaging. Then again I buy most of my cards as untested non-working anyway and take my chances.

9700/9800 cards seem to die out of the blue for no reason even if properly cooled.

Taking a sample of the household for which I have solid data over the previous 10 years, 120% ... I mighta saved some more from elsewhere.

Unknown_K wrote on 2023-03-07, 04:16:

How much effort do you think people are going to put into testing an AGP video card other than seeing if it boots to BIOS? How many ebay sellers even have a AGP 4/8x capable machine sitting around loaded with W98SE/ME full of games to run a test with?

Generally, I only get mad when a card is said to be tested and it shows up with major physical damage, burn marks, and or missing parts not found in the packaging. Then again I buy most of my cards as untested non-working anyway and take my chances.

9700/9800 cards seem to die out of the blue for no reason even if properly cooled.

I expect it to be labeled as untested or tested to BIOs then. To me description such as good working condition means verified fully functional.

I wouldn't have paid $42 for it untested, my tops for untested cards is $20 to MAYBE $30 (I wouldn't pay $30 for anything ATI untested. I would only do it for NVIDIA since there GPUs are much more expensive and collectible).

At any rate in the sellers defense he did immediately refund me (like within 30 minutes) and apologized profusely. He also didn't ask for the carcass back, so maybe I can hobble together one working R9700 from this and the Dell one I've had for the better part of a decade.

It was weird the way this thing failed. At first it posted fine, worked at desktop fine, then I load up the ATI drivers and it starts locking the system up upon 3D initialization, then it starts artifacting on the desktop, now its artifacting at BIOs. Never seemed to be running very hot, never even got to the point of asking it to really RENDER anything. I'm def wondering if I shouldn't have taken that cooler off and repasted it before even testing it. I had assumed because it was in "good working condition" I didn't need to. From now on I'm assuming everything I buy is completely untested.

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-07, 05:29:

I expect it to be labeled as untested or tested to BIOs then. To me description such as good working condition means verified fu […]
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Unknown_K wrote on 2023-03-07, 04:16:

How much effort do you think people are going to put into testing an AGP video card other than seeing if it boots to BIOS? How many ebay sellers even have a AGP 4/8x capable machine sitting around loaded with W98SE/ME full of games to run a test with?

Generally, I only get mad when a card is said to be tested and it shows up with major physical damage, burn marks, and or missing parts not found in the packaging. Then again I buy most of my cards as untested non-working anyway and take my chances.

9700/9800 cards seem to die out of the blue for no reason even if properly cooled.

I expect it to be labeled as untested or tested to BIOs then. To me description such as good working condition means verified fully functional.

I wouldn't have paid $42 for it untested, my tops for untested cards is $20 to MAYBE $30 (I wouldn't pay $30 for anything ATI untested. I would only do it for NVIDIA since there GPUs are much more expensive and collectible).

At any rate in the sellers defense he did immediately refund me (like within 30 minutes) and apologized profusely. He also didn't ask for the carcass back, so maybe I can hobble together one working R9700 from this and the Dell one I've had for the better part of a decade.

It was weird the way this thing failed. At first it posted fine, worked at desktop fine, then I load up the ATI drivers and it starts locking the system up upon 3D initialization, then it starts artifacting on the desktop, now its artifacting at BIOs. Never seemed to be running very hot, never even got to the point of asking it to really RENDER anything. I'm def wondering if I shouldn't have taken that cooler off and repasted it before even testing it. I had assumed because it was in "good working condition" I didn't need to. From now on I'm assuming everything I buy is completely untested.

There is a rule here, Always expect the worst, that way you can never be disappointed.

gerry wrote on 2023-03-05, 19:39:

I saw a 'small appliances' bay at a recycling centre recently - full of varying appliances and a few PCs in the mix too, circa 2 […]
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I saw a 'small appliances' bay at a recycling centre recently - full of varying appliances and a few PCs in the mix too, circa 2010 era by the look of it. My guess was that 50% or more of the electrical goods likely still worked with perhaps a modest clean up and check, seems such a waste

anyway, i thought about the PCs being thrown away and then about all the ebay traders and other outfits that acquire old computers and strip and sell or re-purpose them whether business, charity or otherwise

i wondered what the percentage of total PC equipment is 'saved' - ie still circulated or at least stored pending future use. I imagine its a very small number, maybe 2%? and the rest is either 'recycled' or just ends up in landfill and other waste facilities

but that could be pessimistic, any views?

When I think about this I get pretty irritated and upset.

What that tells me is that I am too caught up in material stuff and need to step back a bit. -_-

I feel the same. Too much cool stuff is being lost for no reason..
Then on the same moment, I'm glad for such a wonderful community.
There are so many projects right now to re-create classic computing things.

Judging by ridiculous current Ebay prices: very, very little is saved.

Judging by recycle centers: a lot of vintage computer stuff is still out there, but it has no value to most (including Ebayers, who cherry pick only and try to sell at thousands of percent markups over what they found for free or for very little at a recycling center). Therefore, most computer equipment goes to the recycling dump perfectly useable, but gets destroyed because few are interested in it except for the Ebayers who "luck out" once in a while.

This is a self-defeating, vicious cycle.

Big Pink wrote on 2023-03-06, 18:27:

Get ready for the great TPM 2.0 sloughage!

It's already started! My work laptop 2019 was replaced in 21 as all hardware had to be "TPM ready" (I kept the laptop for personal use so I'm not complaining)
This Thursday a pair of 2013 Dell Optiplex towers will meet their maker as no tpm chip is installed.

It used to annoy me when people would sell/give away a PC but destroy the HDD. Even if the rest if the PC was all onboard and crap at least I could use the HDD in a build. Plenty of tools exist that can wipe hard drives.
Seems like paranoia has reached a level now though where even households prefer to simply dump an old PC, and really how common is it for people to go around looking for old PC's to try and find sensitive data?

I get with new law and regulations it's harder for businesses to give away stuff, wanting some certificate to say it was disposed of in a secure and environmental way. I suspect that certificate isn't worth the paper its printed on but hey as far as the business is concerned they have done the correct thing! Some companies are a bit over cautious though. Is anyone really going to miss an odd bit of hardware going missing. It's why I keep alot of dead hardware. I'll quietly swap a dead motherboard for a working one, doesnt even have to be same socket or anything, just as long as it looks like a complete computer then they can put something in the audit trail.

Wanna bet Windows 12 will yet again require stupid security hardware requirements ...like SSDs only and bit locker required at all times.

MS is likely to push one of them .. I know they want mechanical HDDs support gone from big box consumer based PCs which likely means Sata with it and a hard push for NVME based drives. IIRC the standards mob want Sata to fully move to NVME in any case so I don't see the removal of the Sata ports as a huge issue.

chinny22 wrote on 2023-03-07, 12:11:

I get with new law and regulations it's harder for businesses to give away stuff, wanting some certificate to say it was disposed of in a secure and environmental way. I suspect that certificate isn't worth the paper its printed on but hey as far as the business is concerned they have done the correct thing!

i think this, the litigation and the 'personal data' thing are the biggest drivers then, alongside of "we have a process that must be followed because we have a process"

the result is vast amounts of useable computers thrown away, vast amount of working toasters/kettles/microwaves/food processors/radios and many more working electronics are also thrown away

think about what an average family gets through, if you're older then think through all the goods you had as a family from youth until now, very few of them became that much more advanced year on year - only early on. Even a 10 year old PC is fine for online, definitely wouldn't have been the case in the year 2000

most of my PC collection are either giveaways at a personal level, bought from charity or simply kept from new by myself!

off topic but the same will happen to automobiles in good working order over the next decade or so, just because they have gas engines

zyzzle wrote on 2023-03-07, 11:57:

Judging by ridiculous current Ebay prices: very, very little is saved.

Judging by recycle centers: a lot of vintage computer stuff is still out there, but it has no value to most (including Ebayers, who cherry pick only and try to sell at thousands of percent markups over what they found for free or for very little at a recycling center). Therefore, most computer equipment goes to the recycling dump perfectly useable, but gets destroyed because few are interested in it except for the Ebayers who "luck out" once in a while.

This is a self-defeating, vicious cycle.

yes i agree, good to point out the prices - this hints at a scarcity that in large part results from the majority of components going straight to 'recycling'

and i wonder how much is actually recycled, the materials in components are varying and the items are small - it cant just be smelted and expected to flow into the different categories without much effort (or maybe it can, I'm not knowledgeable enough on that)