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First post, by matthuszagh

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I'd like to get some sort of solid state drive for use with a Windows 2k PC. It needs to have an IDE interface. This will be going in a pretty high-end oscilloscope and I'm happy to pay a bit more to get something that's brand-name and reliable.

I know a bunch of people like CF for IDE-interfaced storage since CF cards are compatible with the IDE interface, I believe. These looked like decent options:

- https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-SDCFXS … c_df_B00NUB2Q9E
- https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Single-Ad … B000T9QQP0?th=1

However, since it's acting as a drive for an OS, I'm a bit worried about the write limits on it. Should I be concerned about that?

From a quick search, I also saw SSDs with an IDE interface. E.g., https://www.amazon.com/KingSpec-2-5-inch-Soli … r/dp/B008RWKFYE. I have no idea how these are implemented inside.

What are my options? Again, I'd prefer to spend a bit more and get something I'm confident will work and will continue to work at least several years into the future.

Thanks!

Reply 1 of 16, by cyclone3d

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Easier and better to just get a SATA SSD and an IDE to SATA adapter.

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Reply 2 of 16, by Jo22

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M2 SSD in an IDE enclosure is also an option.
Such an enclosure has a converter chip inside.

I've successfully used this combination in a Mac Mini G4.

A 44pin to 40 adapter is maybe required, too.
But that's just a passive mechanical adapter, no electronics.

Edit: Be careful with Windows NT and removable media (flash cards).
Windows NT checks the "removable media bit" and will refuse booting from CF/SD.

It's not a problem of the flash cards, though. They doesn't actively prevent booting. Windows NT is the culprit.

Registry hacks and filter drivers are required to get it going on consumer class flash.
On XP Embedded, there's the EWF filter driver. There's also an INF file that makes Windows XP see a CF as fixed disk.

https://flylib.com/books/en/3.234.1.73/1/

No idea about 2k, though. It was outdated already when the car PC scene was at its height, AFAIK.
Except for nostalgia, the lack of activation and OS/2 compatibility, it's pointless to still use 2k these days. XP is an advanced Win 2k. IMHO. 😉

Merely industrial CF cards have the bit set to "fixed". But even that's not guaranteed anymore.

And please don't depend on that DOS utility from SanDisk that allows changing the bit.
That's outdated information that was valid in 2004 or so. Nowadays CF cards have little in common with those old CF card series.
It could be the case that the utility nolonger works.

PS: Good luck! 🙂🤞

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Reply 3 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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Jo22 wrote on 2023-04-05, 05:04:

M2 SSD in an IDE enclosure is also an option.

SATA M2 SSD.

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Reply 5 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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Disk on module has few issues.

1) High capacity is unreasonably pricey.
2) New DoMs have questionable quality.
3) Performance is overall slow, because many were using CompactFlash controllers.

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Reply 7 of 16, by matthuszagh

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I should have mentioned I did try an mSATA in an IDE enclosure and I think it's been the reason I haven't been able to boot an OS from the PC. I've been using

- this mSATA SSD: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GZLJD5R?th=1, and
- this IDE converter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GRMUQRG?th=1

I can go into more detail about why I think these are probably at fault if desired. But anyway I wonder if I should have just gotten something similar but from more reputable manufacturers.

Reply 9 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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If bloated price and mediocre performance is not an issue - yeah, should be decent for old Win2k system.

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Reply 10 of 16, by matthuszagh

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Ok, fair enough, thanks for the honest opinion. If it works though, I'd be ok with that. Anyway I've ordered one - we'll see. I can return it if it doesn't work out.

Let me provide a bit more info about why I suspect the mSATA + IDE converter combo I have is causing problems - this is by no means a definitive diagnosis, just a suspicion. I'm able to boot a Linux live USB from the computer. It works fine. It's admittedly quite sluggish, but I suspect that's because it's running xubuntu 18 with graphics on such an old machine with so little RAM (511MB). But anyway it works. I also ran memtest86+ to test the memory and that passed.

However, when I install Linux to the drive it says it succeeds, but then when I boot from it, I get "error: failure reading sector 0x98c590 from 'hd0'" and then it goes into grub rescue. When I install win2k on it the installation procedure appears to work fine too (says it succeeds), but then when I try to boot into it it just ends up at a black screen that persists. I suspect something similar is happening for win2k as for the linux boot.

I did remember to change the boot priority after the installation too.

I can post more details if desired.

Reply 11 of 16, by matthuszagh

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I suppose it might also be helpful/relevant for me to post the SMART query I ran on the SSD. This used an mSATA-USB adapter instead of the IDE adapter since I wasn't able to check smart with it in the IDE adapter enclosure connected to an IDE-USB adapter.

smartctl 7.2 2020-12-30 r5155 [x86_64-linux-5.12.4] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-20, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, [url=http://www.smartmontools.org]www.smartmontools.org[/url]

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: CHN-mSATAM3-128
Serial Number: AA000000000000000957
Firmware Version: V0110A0
User Capacity: 128,035,676,160 bytes [128 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate: Solid State Device
Form Factor: mSATA
TRIM Command: Available
Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is: ACS-2 T13/2015-D revision 3
SATA Version is: SATA 3.2, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is: Wed Apr 5 06:59:28 2023 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x02) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 120) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x11) SMART execute Offline immediate.
No Auto Offline data collection support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
No Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
No Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0002) Does not save SMART data before
entering power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 10) minutes.
SCT capabilities: (0x0001) SCT Status supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 1
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 2
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 188
160 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
161 Unknown_Attribute 0x0033 100 100 050 Pre-fail Always - 100
Show last 34 lines
163 Unknown_Attribute       0x0032   100   100   050    Old_age   Always       -       19
164 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 279
165 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 1
166 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
167 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
168 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 7000
169 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 100
175 Program_Fail_Count_Chip 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
176 Erase_Fail_Count_Chip 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
177 Wear_Leveling_Count 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
178 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Chip 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 179
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 40
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0
232 Available_Reservd_Space 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 100
241 Total_LBAs_Written 0x0030 100 100 050 Old_age Offline - 693
242 Total_LBAs_Read 0x0030 100 100 050 Old_age Offline - 206
245 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 050 Old_age Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 2 -

Selective Self-tests/Logging not supported

Nothing obviously wrong that I can tell though the low serial number is maybe a bit weird. Anyway, I wonder if the problem could be with the mSATA-IDE adapter. That uses a JM20330 chip.

Reply 12 of 16, by The Serpent Rider

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Transcend will most certainly work. And yes, individual adapter incompatibility may happen.

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Reply 13 of 16, by DosFreak

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For 2000 I use the following which are very stable, no I don't care about Trim. I don't want to hear yet another pointless conversation about it:

On my laptops I use (you can likely use an additional adapter for 3.5"):
https://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-IIDE-MSAT-2-5 … 80719645&sr=8-1

On my desktops I don't use IDE but SATA:
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-M-2-SATA- … ctronics&sr=1-1

/EDIT
It's possible that this would work on a standard SSD
https://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-IDE40-SAT-Opt … 80728414&sr=8-2

Last edited by DosFreak on 2023-04-05, 21:02. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 15 of 16, by ZellSF

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If you're just running Win2K on it even a low end consumer drive will probably last minimum 10 years. I wouldn't worry about TRIM, write limits and such, just remember that all drives of all types will fail at some point. Set up backups.

IDE to SATA converters can have variable compatibility, and those adapters can even have differing compatibility with different SSD brands.

Reply 16 of 16, by Jamieson

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matthuszagh did you ever find a good solution for replacing the IDE drive in your oscilloscope?

I recently picked up a Tektronix TDS5032 oscilloscope which is running Windows 2000 on a 40GB PATA 2.5" drive. It runs fine but that drive is pushing 20 years old now and I plan to clone it to something newer.

I'm also looking at CF or MSATA adapters and am curious as to what worked on your scope.