dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby ZellSF » 2015-9-05 @ 14:38

lowenz wrote:
lowenz wrote:Or 16:10

Let me test.

Thief (2014) is NOT working centered.....is stretched.
Same for other D3D11 applications.

Yes, there's a problem with NVidia too now :D

Ah, that's very good. It's going to be a mayor annoyance to people with 16:10 monitors wanting to play 16:9 titles with proper AR.

I was worried this was going to go unfixed because it's affecting basically no one, but it sounds like it could affect a lot of people.


I've been experimenting with using dgVoodoo2's windowed mode as a temporary workaround. I initially regarded it as useless as I couldn't do anything to the window without it resetting, but by either disabling or enabling (I forgot which) the alt-enter option then you can manipulate dgVoodoo2's window. Combine that with borderless fullscreen utilities and you could probably do AR correction on AMD cards too.

Frame pacing seems incorrect in windowed mode though (could be my imagination) and under Windows 8+ windowed mode means forced vsync (which has performance implications for some games running under dgVoodoo2).
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2015-9-05 @ 15:23

I guess if dgVoodoo2 could do the scaling, then the problem would be solved?

E.g. if you play Incoming at 1024 x 768, then dgVoodoo2 scales that, aspect ratio correct, to whatever native resolution your system is using?
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby ZellSF » 2015-9-06 @ 17:01

You can actually use windowed mode to fix Lands of Lore II's AR... Sadly it still has many rendering errors that mar the experience.

See attachment for an example (the seams at the top of the cave below the vegetation, the row of small dots in the ground).

DXGL actually shares the same problem, but it's not as apparent there and occurs in different places.

If you want to look at it Dege, the screenshot is from the start of the game (in D3D mode obviously, software render is perfect).
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby Expack3 » 2015-9-07 @ 13:11

ZellSF wrote:You can actually use windowed mode to fix Lands of Lore II's AR... Sadly it still has many rendering errors that mar the experience.

See attachment for an example (the seams at the top of the cave below the vegetation, the row of small dots in the ground).

DXGL actually shares the same problem, but it's not as apparent there and occurs in different places.

If you want to look at it Dege, the screenshot is from the start of the game (in D3D mode obviously, software render is perfect).

I'm assuming this is the Windows version of the executable since AFAIK D3D relies on Windows to work.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby Gamecollector » 2015-9-07 @ 20:16

Expack3 wrote:I'm assuming this is the Windows version of the executable since AFAIK D3D relies on Windows to work.

DOS versions are software and (with the patch) 3dfx.
Windows versions are software and (with the patch) d3d.
And, by the way, LoL:GoD can use 640x400 and 640x480 for windows software versions (changed with lоlsetup.exe). So you don't need the 640x400 support to run this game. Not sure about d3d one, I will test it.
P.S. Well, my videocard not supports 640x400 so both software and d3d use 640x480 with any lоlsetup.exe settings. Can't test.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby HunterZ » 2015-9-07 @ 23:59

Just tried 2.45 with Descent: Freespace. I can't seem to get it to run in fullscreen without stretching, unless I set it to Centered and then it looks tiny.

This is not a GPU driver settings issue, as I have my AMD HD5870 set to maintain aspect ratio when scaling. I also don't see a flicker that would indicate that the game is running in a resolution other than the native 1920x1080 of my monitor.


Edit: Tried nGlide and it can be configured to render the game with 4:3 aspect ratio at native desktop resolution (1920x1080).

Both wrappers suffer from an inability to filter stretched 2D graphics, resulting in jagged looking graphics.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby ZellSF » 2015-9-08 @ 04:32

Gamecollector wrote:
Expack3 wrote:I'm assuming this is the Windows version of the executable since AFAIK D3D relies on Windows to work.

DOS versions are software and (with the patch) 3dfx.
Windows versions are software and (with the patch) d3d.
And, by the way, LoL:GoD can use 640x400 and 640x480 for windows software versions (changed with lolsetup.exe). So you don't need the 640x400 support to run this game. Not sure about d3d one, I will test it.
P.S. Well, my videocard not supports 640x400 so both software and d3d use 640x480 with any lolsetup.exe settings.

640x480 just letterboxes 640x400 and distorts the aspect ratio.

640x400 is seemingly not working at all in the D3D version and I sort of doubt it ever did.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby Dege » 2015-9-08 @ 07:59

ZellSF wrote:You can actually use windowed mode to fix Lands of Lore II's AR... Sadly it still has many rendering errors that mar the experience.

See attachment for an example (the seams at the top of the cave below the vegetation, the row of small dots in the ground).

DXGL actually shares the same problem, but it's not as apparent there and occurs in different places.

If you want to look at it Dege, the screenshot is from the start of the game (in D3D mode obviously, software render is perfect).


It looks the same with native DX. Or worse, as it has colorkeying problems too.

ZellSF wrote:Nvidia aspect ratio override isn't working as of the latest drivers. So right now it's not possible to run games in their native aspect ratio on Nvidia hardware either :angry:


:dead: :dead: :dead:

Hopefully it's not by intention from nVidia.
philscomputerlab wrote:I guess if dgVoodoo2 could do the scaling, then the problem would be solved?

E.g. if you play Incoming at 1024 x 768, then dgVoodoo2 scales that, aspect ratio correct, to whatever native resolution your system is using?

I've already done the prototype of that. But, as I wrote, it brings in other problems (mouse) that aren't present otherwise.
So, because of that, I'm not planning to make this option accessible, it's a half baked solution in this form. :(

Edit: Tried nGlide and it can be configured to render the game with 4:3 aspect ratio at native desktop resolution (1920x1080).

What I don't understand is why it all is a problem with a DX9 renderer at all?
Since choosing scaling mode is not part of the DX9 API, it automatically works good, I would think there is no need any additional support for it.

Both wrappers suffer from an inability to filter stretched 2D graphics, resulting in jagged looking graphics.

dgVoodoo doesn't do scaling on the rendered final graphics. I noticed that nVidia drivers do point-sampled stretching in windowed mode and bilinear-filtered in full screen.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby ZellSF » 2015-9-08 @ 15:38

It looks the same with native DX. Or worse, as it has colorkeying problems too.

native DX likely is wrong, it should probably look like the attachment to this post (that's Win95 under DOSBox, running the D3D render).
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby ZellSF » 2015-9-09 @ 17:00

Also Nvidia scaling bug not intentional:
Thanks for the quick update, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I discussed this with our development team and they confirmed this is the same issue reported again other apps and being being investigated now. We hope to have this fix in a future driver update. I'll notify you as soon as a driver with the fix is available.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby tgomola » 2015-9-09 @ 23:26

I was trying to play London Racer with dgVoodoo 2.45 and as soon as I entered the race, this happened:
Image
The same thing happens with Europe Racer (it's basically the same game but with different cars and tracks).
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby Dege » 2015-9-10 @ 14:14

ZellSF wrote:
It looks the same with native DX. Or worse, as it has colorkeying problems too.

native DX likely is wrong, it should probably look like the attachment to this post (that's Win95 under DOSBox, running the D3D render).


Wrong pixel center used by old drivers maybe? It's strange after all.

ZellSF wrote:Also Nvidia scaling bug not intentional:
Thanks for the quick update, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I discussed this with our development team and they confirmed this is the same issue reported again other apps and being being investigated now. We hope to have this fix in a future driver update. I'll notify you as soon as a driver with the fix is available.


Good news! :cool:

tgomola wrote:I was trying to play London Racer with dgVoodoo 2.45 and as soon as I entered the race, this happened:
Image
The same thing happens with Europe Racer (it's basically the same game but with different cars and tracks).


Thanks for that report! I only have the demo of London Racer which fails with the same error message.
Now I fixed the bug and it starts but it always crashes after the loading screen (independenty on the wrapper) so I can't check the game itself.
But at least now it starts. :)
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby VirtuaIceMan » 2015-9-11 @ 13:19

Try my fixes for M25 Racer (the earlier version of London Racer): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41812

There was an official patch for London Racer back in the day; I took a file from it and rolled my own M25 Racer fix.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby HunterZ » 2015-9-12 @ 15:21

Dege wrote:
Edit: Tried nGlide and it can be configured to render the game with 4:3 aspect ratio at native desktop resolution (1920x1080).

What I don't understand is why it all is a problem with a DX9 renderer at all?
Since choosing scaling mode is not part of the DX9 API, it automatically works good, I would think there is no need any additional support for it.

The only way to get a scaled, non-stretched image from dgVoodoo2 on my Radeon HD5870 is to open my AMD driver settings and force 1600x1200 every time I want to play (what a pain!). With nGlide I can just tell it that I want a 4:3 image scaled to the native 1920x1200 resolution of my monitor, and it works great. Obviously myself and the nGlide author both see the need for it, so I'm confused as to why you don't think it's useful.

The text in the game looks all garbled with dgVoodoo2 too. nGlide used to have that problem, but it was fixed to look a lot better when I reported it a year or two ago.

I'm back to using nGlide for FreeSpace, as it's currently a better experience all around.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby galneon » 2015-9-13 @ 00:36

I had assumed you were only trying FreeSpace as a test case, but you're actually playing the original version instead of FreeSpace Open with FSPort (FS1 campaign)? May I ask why?
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby Dege » 2015-9-13 @ 08:44

VirtuaIceMan wrote:Try my fixes for M25 Racer (the earlier version of London Racer): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41812

There was an official patch for London Racer back in the day; I took a file from it and rolled my own M25 Racer fix.


Yes thanks, I saw that post but the patch won't work with the demo.
Anyway, it's not too important, I will upload a new WIP some day and you can test it. :)
(I don't have too much time nowadays but I'm in the middle of an improvement of the dgVoodoo internals and I don't want to release versions until it's not done.)

The only way to get a scaled, non-stretched image from dgVoodoo2 on my Radeon HD5870 is to open my AMD driver settings and force 1600x1200 every time I want to play (what a pain!). With nGlide I can just tell it that I want a 4:3 image scaled to the native 1920x1200 resolution of my monitor, and it works great. Obviously myself and the nGlide author both see the need for it, so I'm confused as to why you don't think it's useful.


No, I don't say it's not useful. The thing is that implementing it on the wrapper side, in a way that keep the compatibility with the GPU side implementation, is not so easy. It's not just about scaling an image but emulating the mouse handling to the application. It may done well in nglide, I don't know, I have never tried it. But, if it can force its rendering to the native resolution, I think it's an extra (but not necessary) feature because setting resolutions through <=DX9 automatically works properly (scaling with aspect ratio kept). All the old apps I tried natively worked this way. Though I'm not sure if it's an nVidia-only feature or a general Windows one (if it's only for nVidia then I'm wrong).
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby HunterZ » 2015-9-13 @ 17:14

galneon wrote:I had assumed you were only trying FreeSpace as a test case, but you're actually playing the original version instead of FreeSpace Open with FSPort (FS1 campaign)? May I ask why?

Because I had misread (or misremembered) that it was only possible to play FS2 via ports. Since I own FreeSpace 2 as well, I'll take a look. Thanks!

Dege wrote:
The only way to get a scaled, non-stretched image from dgVoodoo2 on my Radeon HD5870 is to open my AMD driver settings and force 1600x1200 every time I want to play (what a pain!). With nGlide I can just tell it that I want a 4:3 image scaled to the native 1920x1200 resolution of my monitor, and it works great. Obviously myself and the nGlide author both see the need for it, so I'm confused as to why you don't think it's useful.


No, I don't say it's not useful. The thing is that implementing it on the wrapper side, in a way that keep the compatibility with the GPU side implementation, is not so easy. It's not just about scaling an image but emulating the mouse handling to the application. It may done well in nglide, I don't know, I have never tried it. But, if it can force its rendering to the native resolution, I think it's an extra (but not necessary) feature because setting resolutions through <=DX9 automatically works properly (scaling with aspect ratio kept). All the old apps I tried natively worked this way. Though I'm not sure if it's an nVidia-only feature or a general Windows one (if it's only for nVidia then I'm wrong).

So I guess the problem here is that FS1 doesn't let you set a resolution - I think it's hard-coded to run at 640x480 or somesuch. As a result, when running with dgVoodoo2 the game stays at the desktop resolution. The resolution that I pick in the Glide tab of dgVoodoo2 then gets scaled to my desktop resolution with no aspect-preservation (and my AMD driver settings cannot help, because the game is running at 1920x1080 desktop resolution).

So basically the shortcomings of FS1 and dgVoodoo2 intersect in such a way as to prevent users from running the game in a proper 4:3 aspect ratio without changing the desktop resolution prior to launching the game.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby galneon » 2015-9-14 @ 00:16

HunterZ wrote:Because I had misread (or misremembered) that it was only possible to play FS2 via ports. Since I own FreeSpace 2 as well, I'll take a look. Thanks!


I've played through FSPort myself--I think I used the OpenGL renderer. Very well-polished and the positional audio through OpenAL is especially impressive if you have a surround setup (or headphones for HRTF).
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby HunterZ » 2015-9-14 @ 00:29

galneon wrote:
HunterZ wrote:Because I had misread (or misremembered) that it was only possible to play FS2 via ports. Since I own FreeSpace 2 as well, I'll take a look. Thanks!


I've played through FSPort myself--I think I used the OpenGL renderer. Very well-polished and the positional audio through OpenAL is especially impressive if you have a surround setup (or headphones for HRTF).

Playing it now. It looks amazing compared to the original game. I indeed have a 5.1 setup with an Asus Xonar DX, which has hardware OpenAL support :) They also improved mouse support to the point where I almost use it more than my flightstick, as mouse accuracy always wins in games for fine target tracking.
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Re: dgVoodoo 2 for DirectX 11

Postby galneon » 2015-9-14 @ 13:37

Mouse does work better for most games, but I force myself to use my CH HOTAS for authenticity's sake :P I'm less effective, but it feels more real and I may still be trying to get my money's worth out of it...
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