Outlaws

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Outlaws

Postby ZellSF » 2017-2-12 @ 21:25

Outlaws seems to drop some inputs. Writing cheat codes (olpostal and olscore are two) or exiting the game (you're supposed to be able to press esc to skip the credits) are good ways to test, just standard playing should make the problem obvious at times too.

DXGL does not have the same problem. This is for the DirectDraw renderer, The problem also applies to the Direct3D render, but I can't compare with anything since dgVoodoo2 is the only way the Direct3D render works on a modern computer).

Mouse cursor also flashes occasionally. Maybe dgVoodoo2 is interpreting mouse input and that somehow blocks keyboard input? Maybe some sort of focus issue?

This only happens in emulated modes (windowed and dgVoodoo2's own scaling modes), I can't actually get unemulated modes to work because Outlaws does something weird that forces dgVoodoo2 into windowed mode.

Also I can't get the Glide render working at all with dgVoodoo2.
Last edited by ZellSF on 2017-3-07 @ 19:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby Dege » 2017-2-13 @ 20:53

Last time I tried this game it (almost) worked for me both with Glide and D3D (on Win7...).

There is a known issue with the mouse: unusable with 'scale, keep AR' scaling modes. The mouse cursor is locked to the upper left corner.
I know what the problem is, I just don't know how to fix it without a new CPL option.

Anyway, will check it again later.
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby Dege » 2017-2-15 @ 09:46

Yes, the game quits with an error message if Glide renderer is chosen.
This is a bug in dgVoodoo, in cooperating between DDraw and Glide, I fixed it. (Native DDraw + dgVoodoo Glide may work, I didn't check it.)
(As a side note, for the Glide renderer, Voodoo2 or earlier 3Dfx card must be selected in the CPL because the game assumes tiled videocard memory (2048 byte wide) and it otherwise crashes when trying to display the in-game menu in response to pressing Esc.)

I cannot skip the credits, it's true...
What is interesting, it all is independent on the renderer type (Glide, DDraw, D3D) and the scaling mode. Unemulated modes works for me.
Capturing the mouse however is not applied (it's a bug...) but in turn, the mouse cursor is fully usable for accessing the menu items, so it's a good bug after all... :D
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby CoolGamer » 2017-2-16 @ 16:15

I remember having a font issue in directx mode via dgVoodoo in Outlaws GOG version. The messages in the top left corner of the screen were very small and illegible via dgVoodoo. Glide mode via nGlide did not have the font problem.
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby Dege » 2017-2-19 @ 16:20

I've found the problem, and reworked the needed parts of the code.
I checked all the games I remembered (once/ever) having input issues and now all of them seems to be working properly:
- Outlaws (DDraw/Glide transitions still have problems but it's not an input issue)
- Croc
- Turok2
- King's Quest 8
- GTA 1 (ddraw version)

Fonts rendered with the original game (no resolution forcing):

Image
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby ZellSF » 2017-2-19 @ 16:48

Dege wrote:I've found the problem, and reworked the needed parts of the code.
I checked all the games I remembered (once/ever) having input issues and now all of them seems to be working properly:
- Outlaws (DDraw/Glide transitions still have problems but it's not an input issue)
- Croc
- Turok2
- King's Quest 8
- GTA 1 (ddraw version)

Fonts rendered with the original game (no resolution forcing):

Image

I also had problems with Requiem: Avenging Angel, I wonder if that's fixed now too.
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby Dege » 2017-2-22 @ 09:27

Controls seem to be fine, but it has another issue.
If forced res + forced msaa is used then menu items become black squares, it's a regression but because it worked fine with 2.53.
I want to fix it anyway.

Also, there is another issue: with emulated stretching modes, forced res the mouse cursor (game menu) doesn't move because never gets redrawn, only when the selection moves from one menu item to another.
The same issue with Settlers III.
I'd like to fix it too, somehow.
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Re: Outlaws - dropping input?

Postby ZellSF » 2017-2-26 @ 19:58

No longer seems to drop inputs, but something is still a bit off, but not sure if it's the game or dgVoodoo2, will try to figure it out a bit later, but a new problem:
olwin_2017_02_26_20_45_28_694.jpg

That river is supposed to be less white. Attached a save game, though you can just type "olscore" until you get to the fifth level. Walk close and you'll see it, far away it will be fine.
Attachments
SAVE000.zip
(46.34 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
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Re: Outlaws - white water textures

Postby Dege » 2017-2-28 @ 19:12

Yes, indeed, I checked it.
Whiteness is position and view angle dependent though, I can position myself to get the waterfall to appear as it should.
Glide renderer is OK.
I'll check the reason later.
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Re: Outlaws - white water textures

Postby Dege » 2017-3-03 @ 20:12

The game creates 2 textures for the waterfall and one of them is released right after it created and loaded with bitmap data.
Later, when choosing which one to render, the texture is not found by its associated texture handle, so whiteness is symptom of a missing texture.
It very seems to be an Outlaws-D3D renderer bug. BTW, I never thought that D3D renderer of Outlaws is D3D2. Good old execute buffers... :D
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Re: Outlaws - white water textures

Postby ZellSF » 2017-3-07 @ 19:05

Dege wrote:The game creates 2 textures for the waterfall and one of them is released right after it created and loaded with bitmap data.
Later, when choosing which one to render, the texture is not found by its associated texture handle, so whiteness is symptom of a missing texture.
It very seems to be an Outlaws-D3D renderer bug. BTW, I never thought that D3D renderer of Outlaws is D3D2. Good old execute buffers... :D

I knew Outlaws' Glide and D3D renderers were just post-support patches and probably not all that good, but I'm surprised they left a so huge problem, but you're right I just checked the D3D patch notes:
Known issues:
* Outlaws Version 1.1 or higher is required for use with
this update.
* Textures may be missing from the faces of waterfalls.

Sigh, guess there's no perfect 3D render for Outlaws.
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Re: Outlaws

Postby Osprey » 2017-7-27 @ 21:48

ZellSF wrote:Also I can't get the Glide render working at all with dgVoodoo2.

To get the Glide renderer working with dgVoodoo2, you need to copy the DLL files from both the 3Dfx and MS folders in the dgVoodoo2 distribution. I didn't really see any benefit to that over nGlide, though.

CoolGamer wrote:I remember having a font issue in directx mode via dgVoodoo in Outlaws GOG version. The messages in the top left corner of the screen were very small and illegible via dgVoodoo. Glide mode via nGlide did not have the font problem.

You need to choose a lower resolution in olcfg.exe. Choose 640x480 for the text to be the size that it was designed. That won't actually be the resolution that the game engine runs in. The 3D engine will use the resolution that you force in dgVoodoo's control panel and the 2D overlays will use the resolution set in olcfg.exe. It's a bit weird, but that's the case. As for the illegibility, I found that that was caused by Render overlays in 3d acceleration in olcfg.exe->Direct 3D->Advanced. De-select that.
Last edited by Osprey on 2017-7-29 @ 06:23, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Outlaws

Postby ZellSF » 2017-7-28 @ 18:56

Osprey wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Also I can't get the Glide render working at all with dgVoodoo2.

To get the Glide renderer working with dgVoodoo2, you need to copy the DLL files from both the 3Dfx and MS folders in the dgVoodoo2 distribution. I didn't really see any benefit to that over nGlide, though.
You need to read the entire conversation before replying to it. I did do everything correctly, it was a bug in the dgVoodoo2 version that Dege replied about and fixed.

The advantage is: if you don't mind messing with Borderless Gaming and changing resolution before you start the game then dgVoodoo2 can offer instant transitions between cinematics/menus and gameplay. DXGL+nGlide can do pretty good transitions too, but not as perfect as dgVoodoo2 in windowed mode.
Osprey wrote:
CoolGamer wrote:I remember having a font issue in directx mode via dgVoodoo in Outlaws GOG version. The messages in the top left corner of the screen were very small and illegible via dgVoodoo. Glide mode via nGlide did not have the font problem.

You need to choose a lower resolution in olcfg.exe. Choose 640x480 for the text to be the size that it was designed. That won't actually be the resolution that the game engine runs in. The 3D engine will use the resolution that you force in dgVoodoo's control panel and the 2D overlays will use the resolution set in olcfg.exe. It's a bit weird, but that's the case.

Outlaws actually does some 3D correction in higher resolutions that forcing resolution via dgVoodoo2 (or nGlide) won't replicate. Being able to run in higher resolutions is the main advantage of Direct3D mode. If you set Outlaws to 640x480 and force resolution you might as well use the Glide render (which has no ugly waterfall glitches).

The Glide render actually supports 800x600, if you set it in the registry, but it's not enough to avoid glitches like this:
ground.jpg
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Re: Outlaws

Postby Osprey » 2017-7-30 @ 06:00

ZellSF wrote:You need to read the entire conversation before replying to it. I did do everything correctly, it was a bug in the dgVoodoo2 version that Dege replied about and fixed.

That, I do, and you need to be a little more appreciative when someone's simply eager to help you. I even offered a potential solution for an issue that you didn't get an answer for, and that got ignored. I don't "need" to try to help.
Last edited by Osprey on 2017-7-30 @ 08:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outlaws

Postby ZellSF » 2017-7-30 @ 06:51

OK, sorry for wasting your time, I should have actually mentioned that the bug I ran into was fixed in the latest dgVoodoo2 and that the mouse cursor missing was an notice for Dege not something I can't figure out how to work around myself (I use a utility called nomousy). If there's many games with such issues Dege might want to consider fixing it.
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Re: Outlaws

Postby Osprey » 2017-7-30 @ 08:33

ZellSF wrote:OK, sorry for wasting your time, I should have actually mentioned that the bug I ran into was fixed in the latest dgVoodoo2 and that the mouse cursor missing was an notice for Dege not something I can't figure out how to work around myself (I use a utility called nomousy). If there's many games with such issues Dege might want to consider fixing it.

Yeah, I realize now that you're only talking to Dege and not actually looking for help from others. I didn't the other day, since I'd just registered here.
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Re: Outlaws

Postby ZellSF » 2017-8-05 @ 11:15

Some better comparisons on forced dgVoodoo2 resolution vs higher internal Outlaws resolution:
75eb957bfb6435925bf0777d627a6fe19d1a7263.jpg
3d90a33bb115b20eda11a58911ec7d36fb7a9df0.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4NbVc80D-A
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