Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

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Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Psyloh » 2017-4-14 @ 13:01

Hello :-3

I am trying to set tomb raider to launch on windows 7 64 bits but it doesn't work :-s
First, I can't install the game because, as it's said, the installer can't deal with 64 bits OS...
So, I tried gog version but their version is supposed to launch on dosbox, I think it could be a matter of configuration file, maybe?

I do as a tutorial says : I put dlls in the folder where the exe remains but when I try to launch the exe I get a message stating windows version is incompatible, as if dgvoodoo is not working at all :-s Is it needed to tell the game which dll to use in a somewhat config file?
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby DosFreak » 2017-4-14 @ 13:19

Tomb Raider is a DOS game. On a 64bit OS you'll need to use DOSBox to play the game. If you want to run the 3DFX ver of the game with DOSBox then you'll need an unofficial version of DOSBox with 3DFX support since the current version of DOSBox doesn't support that.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Stiletto » 2017-4-14 @ 14:45

RIght. DGVoodoo2 can work, but it needs the unofficial 3dfx version of DOSBox to help it in this particular case.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Psyloh » 2017-4-14 @ 15:27

Ok, so DGVoodoo can't get it to work alone? I thought it can run dos games as well :-s
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby DosFreak » 2017-4-14 @ 15:44

http://dege.freeweb.hu/

dgVoodoo 2 is a wrapper for old graphics API's for Windows Vista/7/8/10.

This wrapper can use Direct3D 11 with different device types as wrapping output:
- Hardware rendering at GPU feature level 10.1 (recommended)
- Hardware rendering at GPU feature level 10.0 (there are some restrictions)
- Software rendering through Microsoft WARP renderer

The API's it currently can wrap are:
- Glide 2.11, Glide 2.45, Glide 3.1 and Glide 3.1 Napalm
- DirectX 1-7 (all versions of DirectDraw and Direct3D up to version 7)
- Direct3D 8.1
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby UCyborg » 2017-4-14 @ 16:47

A quick Google search suggests it can also be run natively: https://www.gog.com/forum/tomb_raider_s ... tion_patch Might be worth checking out.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Psyloh » 2017-4-14 @ 18:26

UCyborg wrote:A quick Google search suggests it can also be run natively: https://www.gog.com/forum/tomb_raider_s ... tion_patch Might be worth checking out.


Wow! What did you search to get to such a link O_o!? Thx you, that seems awesome ^^ I will give it a try right away!!
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby willow » 2017-4-14 @ 18:26

UCyborg wrote:A quick Google search suggests it can also be run natively: https://www.gog.com/forum/tomb_raider_s ... tion_patch Might be worth checking out.

Here's a guide that tells you how to play Tomb Raider 1 and Tomb Raider: Unfinished Business on modern Windows. As you probably know, TR1 was originally released for DOS, Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation, so you normally need an emulator to play it. However, there's an old patch available for the ATI 3D Rage, which was designed for Windows 95 and, with some modifications, still runs even on Windows 10. So let's get started, shall we?

The 3D Rage patch requires the ATI 3D CIF API, so if you happen to have a vintage gaming system running Windows 95 with an ATI 3D Rage graphics card, you could start the game at this point.

http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=214779
I don't know if dgvoodoo can wrapper ati CIF.

What are the best version of tomb raider 1? I think it's power vr version with resolution 800x600 and 1024x768. I think 3dfx can support only 640x480 like software version.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Stiletto » 2017-4-14 @ 18:43

Ah right, I forgot about the Windows ATI 3D CIF port.

DGVoodoo2 cannot (yet?) wrap ATI 3D CIF (though any day Dege wants to take a stab at it, there's helpful people around...). It's a lot of work for maybe supporting a dozen games tho. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=33483

For an ATI 3D CIF wrapper, you would instead need "glcif" (no longer developed or easily found on the Internet) or the slightly better-known glRage: https://github.com/ata4/glrage
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Dege » 2017-4-14 @ 18:52

Stiletto wrote:Ah right, I forgot about the Windows ATI 3D CIF port.

DGVoodoo2 cannot (yet?) wrap ATI 3D CIF (though any day Dege wants to take a stab at it, there's helpful people around...). It's a lot of work for maybe supporting a dozen games tho. viewtopic.php?f=63&t=33483

For an ATI 3D CIF wrapper, you would instead need "glcif" (no longer developed or easily found on the Internet) or the slightly better-known glRage: https://github.com/ata4/glrage


I was aware of glRage but not of the Windows version of TR1 executable... :exclamation:
I was curious and downloaded ATI Rage Pro SDK from VogonsDrivers and the API seems to be way too simple for the first look...
Only 10-12 functions... :D

But it's maybe more complex if it has to cooperate with DDraw for example.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Stiletto » 2017-4-14 @ 18:53

Psyloh wrote:Ok, so DGVoodoo can't get it to work alone? I thought it can run dos games as well :-s


The original "DGVoodoo1" could use the 32-bit NTVDM found in Windows2000/XP to run DOS games.

When that Microsoft functionality was removed due to 64-bit Windows's compatibility in Windows 7 64-bit/Windows 8/8.1/10 - the Glide wrapper part of dgVoodoo then required using something like DOSBox to run DOS games. The functions built into dgVoodoo to support NTVDM were removed when dgVoodoo2 (targeting DirectX 11) was released.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Psyloh » 2017-4-14 @ 18:58

Holy shit! It's so neat :-D Easy to set up, and efficient..! For those who like TR1 it is worth seeing!! I am playing it at 1920x1080, natively O_o It's like heaven *-*
There just are texture problems at the edges of level models like thin quantum-void-black-gaps between faces when Lara is moving, but maybe it's intended as the game was supposed to be played at a lower resolution that probably makes those gaps invisible... But that's not the point of that thread ^^ Thx all! I will probably come again in few days to get tomb raider 2 working with DGV ;-)
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Stiletto » 2017-4-14 @ 18:58

Dege wrote:I was aware of glRage but not of the Windows version of TR1 executable... :exclamation:
I was curious and downloaded ATI Rage Pro SDK from VogonsDrivers and the API seems to be way too simple for the first look...
Only 10-12 functions... :D


That would be a nice surprise. (glRage itself is licensed LGPL v3.0 and has a lot of game-specific patches so be aware :))

As usual, vetz has a large OEM 3D API game collection and can help you test as time allows, and Tuxality has made a big dent in wrapping every 3D API himself and can give some pointers. ;) Gona has a nice page too: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Psyloh » 2017-4-14 @ 19:01

Stiletto wrote:
Psyloh wrote:Ok, so DGVoodoo can't get it to work alone? I thought it can run dos games as well :-s


The original "DGVoodoo1" could use the 32-bit NTVDM found in Windows2000/XP to run DOS games.

When that Microsoft functionality was removed due to 64-bit Windows's compatibility in Windows 7 64-bit/Windows 8/8.1/10 - the Glide wrapper part of dgVoodoo then required using something like DOSBox to run DOS games. The functions built into dgVoodoo to support NTVDM were removed when dgVoodoo2 (targeting DirectX 11) was released.


So, if I get it, I would need DGV1 + an XP VM to avoid DosBox for Glide dependent DOS games?
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Stiletto » 2017-4-14 @ 19:42

Psyloh wrote:
Stiletto wrote:
Psyloh wrote:Ok, so DGVoodoo can't get it to work alone? I thought it can run dos games as well :-s


The original "DGVoodoo1" could use the 32-bit NTVDM found in Windows2000/XP to run DOS games.

When that Microsoft functionality was removed due to 64-bit Windows's compatibility in Windows 7 64-bit/Windows 8/8.1/10 - the Glide wrapper part of dgVoodoo then required using something like DOSBox to run DOS games. The functions built into dgVoodoo to support NTVDM were removed when dgVoodoo2 (targeting DirectX 11) was released.


So, if I get it, I would need DGV1 + an XP VM to avoid DosBox for Glide dependent DOS games?


Or a Win9x VM, but that would be much more challenging to get to work. (Direct3D passthrough or OpenGL passthrough to the host on Win9x in a VM is definitely mostly broken last I looked.)

But yeah, dgvoodoo1 or Glidos (http://www.glidos.net), which is/was shareware.

Even then, DGVoodoo1 and Glidos would be missing close to a decade of wrapper technology improvements. Upscaling, newer API targets, etc. Both were designed for NT OS's and also sorta work on 9x, and they tested nothing much newer than Vista 32-bit. (Glidos later wrote a NTVDM replacement for 64-bit Windows which only kinda worked, I forget its name. Final Glidos packages bundle DOSBox.)

At this date, I wouldn't recommend this path, and Dege would undoubtedly not support you - these days, both Glidos and Dege recommend DOSBox for this purpose - but yeah, it would be technically possible.

Glidos wrapped to OpenGL 1.2 by default (if I recall correctly) and dgVoodoo1 wrapped to DirectX 7 and finally DirectX 9.

There's a third issue you haven't thought of, Psyloh: not all 3dfx Glide DOS games can be easily wrapped with a Glide wrapper like DGVoodoo, OpenGlide/Glidos, or the many others. A few are "statically compiled" so as a replacement Glide DLL cannot be inserted into the chain - and to run those few DOS games on a modern PC, instead of a VM you must use a full PC emulator that can emulate a Voodoo card, such as PCem, or DOSBox+kekko's Voodoo patch, or (eventually) MAME. Maybe someone someday will figure out how to patch around that for those games, but I doubt it. Static linked games are flagged in this DOS Glide games list here: http://www.zeus-software.com/forum/view ... 3473#p3473

All that said, I don't know why you don't want to use DOSBox+Voodoo wrapper patch+any Glide wrapper, and/or with kekko's Voodoo emulator patch for DOSBox. It's 64-bit OS compatible...

And don't forget, if you want an "accurate" experience, have boatloads of horsepower to spare, and don't care about upscaling to insane resolutions or widescreen, PCem is worth a look these days.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby F2bnp » 2017-4-14 @ 20:11

Keep an eye out for two amazing projects in the works, OpenLara and OpenTomb. Both are open-source engine replacements for Tomb Raider 1 and the first five games respectively. They have progressed a lot in the last few years, I think OpenTomb might be able to play the entirety of TR1 but I haven't really checked in a while.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby willow » 2017-4-14 @ 20:21

Stiletto wrote:


All that said, I don't know why you don't want to use DOSBox+Voodoo wrapper patch+any Glide wrapper, and/or with kekko's Voodoo emulator patch for DOSBox. It's 64-bit OS compatible...

Does dosbox daum version have Voodoo wrapper patch+any Glide wrapper or kekko's Voodoo emulator patch for DOSBox ?
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Stiletto » 2017-4-14 @ 21:32

Daum was last updated two years ago and at that time had bundles of irrelevant and broken patches, why would you want that? Building your own and patching isn't that hard.
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby UCyborg » 2017-4-14 @ 23:55

One of the forum members here compiles latest DOSBox binaries with some useful patches integrated on the regular basis: http://blog.yesterplay80.net/?page_id=515

But this one is missing Glide patch, which is the one needed if I understand correctly? I'm still confused about how Glide is supposed to work with DOS games. The above DOSBox build emulates Voodoo card so you could install Win98 in it and you'd have working Voodoo card, at least I did this once with SVN Daum build and I had working DirectX support. I haven't tried anything that uses Glide though, Glide Windows games would work that way, right?

Is the purpose of Glide patch so you can run DOS games in DOSBox the usual way, so without installing whole operating system in DOSBox? Utilizing host's hardware acceleration? glide2x.dll that comes with Daum build has Laser Point Software Ltd listed as company. Guessing by the fact that it imports functions from opengl32.dll, it's Glide2 -> OpenGL wrapper. So I assume you can replace it with whatever else Glide2 wrapper out there and it would also work. And glide2.ovl is library DOS games load to communicate with glide2x.dll. Have I got this right?
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Re: Is DGVoodoo 2 supposed to work with 64 bits OS?

Postby Jorpho » 2017-4-15 @ 01:11

DOSBox builds with Voodoo emulation will run as if a Voodoo card was installed. That means Windows will recognize a Voodoo card, and that DirectX drivers for a Voodoo card will work, as well as DOS games that expect a Voodoo card. All the emulation functions independently of whatever is installed on the host system, which means it can be slow.

DOSBox builds with Glide support are entirely different, in that they will pass any Glide commands on to a Glide wrapper available on the host machine (or in theory on to an actual Voodoo card, I suppose). Programs, regardless of whether they are DOS programs or Windows programs, will not work properly with this arrangement if they do anything more than passing along Glide commands.

I'm pretty sure this is all in a readme somewhere.
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