DgVoodoo 1 Discussion Thread

General information and assistance with dgVoodoo.

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby batracio » 2004-9-15 @ 12:06

Please don't ditch developing! I've tested 1.23 and 1.15b versions, and both do the job without hanging the computer... but not without any flaw:

http://www.iespana.es/meetjohndoe/jpg/TRdgV123.jpg

This screenshot shows several glitches on floor and ceiling texture edges, and black squares/rectangles on bookcase and wooden textures.

http://www.iespana.es/meetjohndoe/jpg/TRdgV115.jpg

The same for 1.15b version, which as far as I can remember, worked fine without those glitches. At least it did with previous versions of Detonator/Forceware drivers for Win9x. Maybe that's the source of the problem, that wouldn't be too surprising, as Catalyst recent versions are giving you no less headaches.

The following step would be testing older nvidia drivers (now I have 61.76 installed), I guess.


EDIT: Kaminari is right, just a mipmapping issue. Then we can isolate the unstability problem to 1.30 version, 1.23 seems perfectly stable.
Last edited by batracio on 2004-9-15 @ 13:59, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
batracio
Member
 
Posts: 391
Joined: 2003-11-12 @ 12:49
Location: Spain

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Kaminari » 2004-9-15 @ 12:53

Looks like a typical mipmapping issue to me (does the same with Glidos+OpenGlide and mipmapping activated).
User avatar
Kaminari
Oldbie
 
Posts: 768
Joined: 2002-12-06 @ 01:54

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby VirtuaIceMan » 2004-9-15 @ 20:26

Hi Dege,

Interesting discovery. I was just trying to get the NASCAR Racing 2 3Dfx beta to work. Now this is difficult as:

1. On my old Voodoo5 5500 AGP equipped machine the Glide version doesn't seem to work any more (that machine uses Win98 and a hacked unofficial 3Dfx driver so I'm not suprised...!).

2. On my old PC the regular DOS version works fine.

3. On my new WinXP (home) machine the DOS version will only work in DOSBox (uses high-res/VESA/something that XP doesn't like...).

4. When I installed the 3Dfx beta patch and ran it I got my first dgVoodoo blue-screen/reboot... I turned off VDD mode and got nothing!

5. I checked Screamer2 and Screamer Rally... and they are both working perfectly in VDD mode, on my ATI Radeon 9800XT with Catalyst 4.8

So that's what I discovered - not all games crash/reboot in VDD mode. Note: for all games I simply place dgVoodooSetup.exe, glide2x.dll and glide2x.ovl in the game folder.

Not sure if this exactly helps at all mind you, but I thought it was interesting.

Ice
User avatar
VirtuaIceMan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 850
Joined: 2003-12-22 @ 00:57

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Dege » 2004-9-16 @ 08:03

Looks like a typical mipmapping issue to me (does the same with Glidos+OpenGlide and mipmapping activated).

Yes, I think the same.

Yesterday I tested 1.30c under w98 with TR1. Indeed, when I copied the dgv files into TR's dir, it didn't work. There is a special bug in the vxd that prevent it to work in the "actual" dir. However when I copied them to the win dir (the point is glide2x.dll don't be in the actual directory), it worked. When it crashed, DOS-box simply crashed with an exception and that's all.
I don't dare to offer you to try it out again, who knows, it may detonate your computer this time.
Since a while I have the feel with dgv that I do nothing but pug the shit. It doesn't work for peoples in general, always there are problems like reboots, crashes, black screens, corrupted renderings, low performances, and other various errors. And, it seems I'm too "few" to fix them. Please guys don't misunderstand me, if it don't work it's not your fault at all. But, now I'm fed up with dgv, it's like a virus.

4. When I installed the 3Dfx beta patch and ran it I got my first dgVoodoo blue-screen/reboot... I turned off VDD mode and got nothing!

5. I checked Screamer2 and Screamer Rally... and they are both working perfectly in VDD mode, on my ATI Radeon 9800XT with Catalyst 4.8

Ice, thanks for the feedback. Rebooting doesn't surprise me now. :happy:
This game is one of the ones I would like to test though.
Dege
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 2003-9-04 @ 11:06

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby batracio » 2004-9-16 @ 10:44

Dege wrote:Yesterday I tested 1.30c under w98 with TR1. Indeed, when I copied the dgv files into TR's dir, it didn't work. There is a special bug in the vxd that prevent it to work in the "actual" dir. However when I copied them to the win dir (the point is glide2x.dll don't be in the actual directory), it worked.


Well done, you solved our problem, it's working on me too if I install the files on windows directory. Just a bit annoying 'cause I already had glide2x.* files from my Voodoo^2 and forces me to move them from here to there, but that's better than nothing.

Dege wrote:Since a while I have the feel with dgv that I do nothing but pug the shit. It doesn't work for peoples in general, always there are problems like reboots, crashes, black screens, corrupted renderings, low performances, and other various errors. And, it seems I'm too "few" to fix them. Please guys don't misunderstand me, if it don't work it's not your fault at all. But, now I'm fed up with dgv, it's like a virus.


Hey, don't give up so early, you're doing a truly amazing job. I have also tested UT in glide mode with dgVoodoo, and it gives virtually identical performance and visuals compared to Voodoo^2 SLI or Voodoo4 in my system. Maybe Zeckensack's wrapper gives better performance (faster even than real 3dfx hardware), but it doesn't support DOSGlide and probably it will never do. And Glidos is unbeatable in Tomb Raider, but OpenGlide doesn't meet the standards in other games. That makes dgVoodo the most complete and useful glide wrapper in the world, it isn't like a virus, no no NO NO!!!!
User avatar
batracio
Member
 
Posts: 391
Joined: 2003-11-12 @ 12:49
Location: Spain

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby VirtuaIceMan » 2004-9-16 @ 11:50

Hey Dege,

don't give up, it's probably ATI's fault (most graphical things on my games seems to be!!).

Anyway let me know if you'd like me to collect NASCAR2 together with the patch for you to try out. As I said the game doesn't seem to work (for me anyway, others say it's fine) in XP... and the Glide version looked great but has stopped on my original 3Dfx card too!!

Nothing's ever simple with this stuff but your wrapper currently does things that others do not so it's worth working on.

Ice
User avatar
VirtuaIceMan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 850
Joined: 2003-12-22 @ 00:57

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Kaminari » 2004-9-16 @ 12:51

Yup, it's the only one that makes Croc's demo work at all -- can't be that bad! :)
User avatar
Kaminari
Oldbie
 
Posts: 768
Joined: 2002-12-06 @ 01:54

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby zeckensack » 2004-9-18 @ 17:07

batracio wrote:Maybe Zeckensack's wrapper gives better performance (faster even than real 3dfx hardware)
Heh, thanks, but that is going to change. I'm taking a nosedive on performance currently, down from 135 fps to 100 fps in Unreal I ... multithreading overhead. I'm trying to reclaim as much as I can, of course, but it will be slower than it was.

I guess that makes Dege's even more competitive ;)
batracio wrote:but it doesn't support DOSGlide and probably it will never do.
Right. It won't.

Dege,
please don't give up. I know how that feels. Take a couple of weeks off, if you need to clear up your mind. But don't just throw it all away. You've achieved so much, it would really be shame.
User avatar
zeckensack
Newbie
 
Posts: 31
Joined: 2003-10-28 @ 18:45

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Dege » 2004-9-19 @ 18:12

Well, it's true there are things in the wrapper that weren't/aren't "adjusted" to the rewritten parts, and I neglected testing everything before releasing a version. For example, this vxd-error came in when I modified the ovl to find glide2x.dll in the current dir, and there are errors in the screensaving due to the erroneous green-label handling, I didn't rewrite this part when I rewrited the texturing. All that are fixed now, I think I will finally release 1.31. Tough there are a few known bugs in that, but this beta-state is getting too long now.
I wrote that I'm fed up with all this because always there are unexplainable errors. I code something, but I can be certain of that it won't run on other computers. Driver problem or something like that, can be said, but other applications always run fine on almost all computers. The truth is, a program should be tested continuously on 4 or 5 separate configuraions to be a really good and reliable. I have only one config, but, on the other hand, I should test more.

Maybe Zeckensack's wrapper gives better performance (faster even than real 3dfx hardware)

Yes, that's for sure. When I mentioned low performance, I thought of dgVoodoo compared to itself (so that, what performance should be).

All in all, 1.31 is coming soon, but I can't guarantee it will work for you. :happy:
Dege
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 2003-9-04 @ 11:06

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Dege » 2004-9-21 @ 10:55

About that ATI-reboot: I was thinking a lot if this is indeed ATI's bug in their drivers or not, and as for me, I think it's likely not. There could be problems in VDD mode as I described earlier, but in server mode it should work without any problems (and as it is known, it doesn't do so). Altough I can't imagine how a user mode application can drive a "reliable" kernel mode driver into causing an exception (invalid pointers? :confused: ), I would like to make a big debugging to know that exactly where it crashes. Then, if it's my fault, I could fix it after all.
Dege
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 2003-9-04 @ 11:06

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Vigilante58 » 2004-9-21 @ 14:35

Hey Dege,

I was part of a closed group of beta testers for a game in the past and we also had some problems once with new ATI drivers doing strange things. I believe that most of the time it's not the fault of the programmer, but of ATI.

You could indeed make a new build of dgVoodoo that logs anything that could cause the crashing, but perhaps it's the best option to get yourself an ATI card (could be any card utilizing the catalyst drivers).

If you're short by cash, perhaps you could add a paypal donation button to your site :happy:

It's a really nasty issue, but I'm glad it only occurs with DOS-based games and not with both :neutral:
Vigilante58
Newbie
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 2004-7-04 @ 15:48
Location: Netherlands

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Dege » 2004-9-23 @ 09:04

I did some debugging and got very confused. On that ATI-card based computer I can't even get the server's dialog box to show up! :confused: In spite of at that point no one call was done to directx. And, I don't even mention debugging the reboot-part, the ntvdm terminated gratuitously before anything "happened", etc. Maybe ATI's hydravision make it so messy? :confused:
And it seems it influences not only the dos-part, I got feedbacks about POD starting in windowed mode but not in full screen, etc. It's very similar to the dos-server situation, perhaps both problems are the same in fact. The point is I've no any idea.

I think I'm forced to announce that dgv doesn't support ATI catalyst any more (even if it's not ATI's fault) and everyone use it for his/her own risk! (If it works, then you are lucky :happy: )
Dege
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 2003-9-04 @ 11:06

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby VirtuaIceMan » 2004-9-23 @ 23:50

I'll carry on taking my chances then!

Regarding POD, well it is a strangely programmed game anyway. Even on my last Win98/Voodoo5 card it locked up when you press Exit then Okay (or whatever the quit option says)!

Can you also remind me (either on here or via e-mail) what software you used to debug POD as I stupidly deleted your e-mail where you told me! I'd like to look at a few games that don't work in XP but am not sure where to start. I guess I need software that tracks the instructions the programs are issuing?

Ice
User avatar
VirtuaIceMan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 850
Joined: 2003-12-22 @ 00:57

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby VirtuaIceMan » 2004-9-26 @ 13:07

Dege has released 1.31:

IV. What's new in v1.31
-----------------------

- Support for Glide 2.11
- LFB handling is rewritten, it means new converters, etc. This version supports write formats RGB565, RGB555 and ARGB1555 natively.
- Earlier solutions for multithreading issues could (and did) cause problems like in Red Baron 3D, it's now fixed (at least I hope it's indeed fixed)
- Some minor bugs fixed
- When switching to another application by alt-tab, then back, texture corruption may occure. For example, my videodriver doesn't set the "state" of textures to "lost", in spite of part of the videomemory they reside in is unambiguously overwrited. To avoid this, dgVoodoo reloads all the textures when they are first used after the cooperative level is got back (Windows applications themself may notice swithcing by alt-tab and don't call Glide functions until you don't switch back, thus, reloading won't work).
- Default texture filtering is "point sampled", not bilinear filtering.
- Setup behavior is slightly changed: since driver 2.11 can also be configured now, setup provides a list for instances of wrapper files. At startup it put all the files found into this list but you can add more instances by "Search", "./" and "Win dir" buttons. Actually, both of the platform configurations are read in (and written out!), so none of them is lost when selecting between the two platforms (losing is an old behavior, it was inherited from old version setups when Windows and DOS configs were placed into two separate files).
- Bugfixing, for example screen saving does not work in previous version, etc.
- Saving and loading configurations from/to setup (right click, menu)
- Sure there are some more slight changes, but I can't remember them

Ice
User avatar
VirtuaIceMan
Oldbie
 
Posts: 850
Joined: 2003-12-22 @ 00:57

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Vigilante58 » 2004-9-26 @ 18:57

great... will try it on carmageddon 2 :cool:
Vigilante58
Newbie
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 2004-7-04 @ 15:48
Location: Netherlands

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby ableeker » 2004-10-02 @ 22:49

I've been trying out 1.31 on TR1, and it's still blue screening if I use VDD mode, but as it works without VDD mode, to me that's not a big problem. Even with this change in the recent ATI driver that makes TR1 no longer work in VDD mode, I still think Dege did an awesome job. Do keep up the good work, man!

I can't hear the CD tracks on the TR1 CD, but I've always assumed that's technically not possible, right? Is that at all possible, or is there something wrong with the setup of my computer, or the settings I use with DGVoodoo? It would be nice to hear the tracks...

Anyway, I decided to play around with the new Glide 2.11 feature of 1.31, so I fired up Pandemonium. I always liked the 3dfx version of that game, but never was able to run it under Windows. The non-3dfx version works, but is either very blocky, or uses some horrible kind of scanline effect. It's definitely not as good as the 3dfx version, or the PSOne version!

To my pleasant surprise it seemed to work, but then I began wonder why, because I discovered I actually hadn't started DGVoodoo at that point.

I think I better explain this... The point is, I have an actual Voodoo 2 in my computer, and it's even installed under XP, as I found drivers that work with XP as well as the AMD Athlon 1.33 GHz processor it's running (fastvoodoo 4.0). It actually works, Messiah ran in 3dfx mode, but this somewhat complicates the Voodoo emulation thing. I mean, if something works, is it running on the Voodoo card, or under the Voodoo emulation?

As I have a Voodoo2, I had earlier tried to run Pandemonium, but it unfortunately didn't work. Maybe another version of Glide 2.11 would work, but as it's an old game, and I had an AMD, and hadn't found one anyway, I had given up on that. But after some messing around with DGVoodoo, it suddenly worked, and it looked great!

I then had a good look at what I had done at that moment, and when I discovered that not all DGVoodoo's files were present, I noticed something odd. If I didn't use DGVoodoo at all, but just copied Dege's Glide.dll to the game folder, it worked as well! However, it didn't work with the original 3dfx Glide.dll that came with the game!

So Dege, is that possible? Is your Glide.dll a full version that can be used in place of the 3dfx one? And is it more compatible with modern computers? Or have I done something totally wrong here? That's certainly possible, but I don't think so, as I've checked everything a number of times...
User avatar
ableeker
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 2003-7-12 @ 22:15
Location: Amsterdam

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Dege » 2004-10-03 @ 06:07

I've been trying out 1.31 on TR1, and it's still blue screening if I use VDD mode, but as it works without VDD mode, to me that's not a big problem. Even with this change in the recent ATI driver that makes TR1 no longer work in VDD mode, I still think Dege did an awesome job. Do keep up the good work, man!

Thanks, Aldo! I'll do my best. It's good to see dgv works for you at least in server mode. :happy:

I can't hear the CD tracks on the TR1 CD, but I've always assumed that's technically not possible, right? Is that at all possible, or is there something wrong with the setup of my computer, or the settings I use with DGVoodoo? It would be nice to hear the tracks...

It is possible of course! Playing CD tracks was done through the interface of MSCDEX under DOS, and no MSCDEX support under NT/2k/XP by default. SAPUCDEX is written to fill this gap, use this! On the other hand, if you have a Sold-Out version of Tombraider (as I have one), it doesn't contain the CD tracks, so that it contains empty tracks! To make sure about it, I recommend you to try to play TR CD tracks with a CD player.

To my pleasant surprise it seemed to work, but then I began wonder why, because I discovered I actually hadn't started DGVoodoo at that point.

Pandemonium I is a Windows game, you don't have to start anything of dgv! :happy: Just copy glide.dll as you do it with glide2x.dll.

I mean, if something works, is it running on the Voodoo card, or under the Voodoo emulation?

If it really can't be determined which one is used, try to change e.g. the resolution in the setup and start the game again. If change takes effect, then dgv is used.

As I have a Voodoo2, I had earlier tried to run Pandemonium, but it unfortunately didn't work. Maybe another version of Glide 2.11 would work, but as it's an old game, and I had an AMD, and hadn't found one anyway, I had given up on that.

I don't know Voodoo cards very well, I've never had any of them. But, it seems Glide2.11 was/is always a problem on Voodoo hardwares newer than Voodoo1. For example, having a look into the direct LFB accessing in Glide2.11, it can be seen that it's suited for the Voodoo1 hardware. Newer Voodoos probably is'nt compatible with V1, so old drivers won't work with them (but, if Glide.dll was shipped with newer voodoos as well, it should work).
So Dege, is that possible? Is your Glide.dll a full version that can be used in place of the 3dfx one? And is it more compatible with modern computers?

Yes, of course, it's like the glide2x.dll. You can setup and use it in place of the original drivers. I don't think you did wrong anything, I think you used dgv for Pandy1. :happy: I only tested glide2.11 support with Pandemonium 1 and Mech Warrior 2, and it works fine with them. In the case of Mech2 I co-operated with kjliew, the guy who wrote the glide.dll-stub to be able to play this game. A big thanks to him!! (And also thanks must go to Craig for Pand1!) :happy:
Dege
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 2003-9-04 @ 11:06

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby ableeker » 2004-10-03 @ 15:13

Dege, thanks for the quick reply. So copying your Glide.dll to the game folder was enough? I think I get it, as it's a Windows game, your Glide.dll is a wrapper, and uses OpenGL, or Direct3D? Sorry about the confusion, I'm used to using dgVoodoo with TR1, which is a DOS game. Anyway, Pandemonium 1 works beautifully. Again, great job!

Sapucdex works like you said. Thanks for the tip. I just added it to the DOS Environment of VDMS, started dgVoodoo, and there it was, the beatiful CD track of the opening screen. Set it, and forget it. Man, this just gets better and better!

As you pointed out, the Sold Out version doesn't have the CD tracks, or rather, they're there, but they're empty. And guess which one I have? You guessed it, the Sold Out version. Luckily we're not the only ones who have it, and others who have a complete version with the CD tracks, have kindly uploaded the tracks as MP3's. I downloaded them, converted them back to WAV's, and burned a new mixed mode CD. Works a treat!

Thanks again!
User avatar
ableeker
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 2003-7-12 @ 22:15
Location: Amsterdam

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Kaminari » 2004-10-04 @ 23:04

OpenGlide and GlideWrapper use OpenGL, while dgVoodoo relies on Direct3D.
User avatar
Kaminari
Oldbie
 
Posts: 768
Joined: 2002-12-06 @ 01:54

Re: A glide wrapper for DOS programs - part deux (dgVoodoo)

Postby Zebius » 2004-10-05 @ 09:12

Hi Dege and all dgvoodoo enthusiasts!

Dege -> Many thanks for this wonderful tool. At last there is a free alternative for Glidos. It's not well-known yet, but it will be sooner or later.

Actually I use it for TR1 (and TR1-UB) only , and after some problems with settings (this forum is very helpful) it's working perfectly now. It's not worse than Glidos and I even dare to say that in TR1 it works better :smug:
It runs very fast on my GF2MX card without any graphic problems (although 16-bit mode doesn't work at all, but who cares?).

Dege, I have few suggestions:
1. please add link to this forum on your hungarian site, most of people don't know where to get help on using dgvoodoo (I wasted lot of time searching for useful info about dgv in net before I found this thread on Vogons forum)
2. could you write some more info about dgvoodoo and its settings in readme file, it should be also a note about VDMSound causing slowdown and how to fix it (I experienced that and for long time thought that was dgvoodoo's fault), and also list of supported games and how do they work with dgv and what are recommended settings for them...

I think this will help dgvoodoo to become more popular.
By the way, are you still thinking about adding High-res textures support for TR? It would be faaaaaantaaaaaaastic!!!!! :lol:

I hope you'll find enough time and good will to continue this project.

Greetings and good luck, man. :lol:
User avatar
Zebius
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: 2004-10-05 @ 07:46
Location: Poland

PreviousNext

Return to dgVoodoo General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest