VOGONS


Retro machines usefulness/connectivity thread

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Reply 120 of 128, by bfcastello

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Yeah, but I am actually trying to avoid using my rPi3 for that as a “bridge”, because I am always “on the move”, I work and do my fun stuff on my macbook or my iPad Pro. Both have a dosbox instance, but only the mac has a dosbox with ne2000 functionalities, and a VM on VMware Fusion.

Basically, I want to be able to connect to mIRC, surf the web a bit (I know it is limited really there today), read my emails on outlook, access the shares on my network, and run a webserver so I can develop low level websites (obviously I will not test them on IE5 and this machine!).

mIRC and shares do work, a webserver is possible, FTP is possible, SSH isn’t, read my emails is possible (with stunnel and another machine in the middle) and web browsing is also somewhat possible (maybe with webOne or the web rendering proxy script and another machine).

But I believe there is room for improvement and make it almost unnecessary to have a machine in the middle “translating” it between the VM and the internet.

The iPad dosbox instance can also connect to the internet, but without Ne2000, it uses slirp, winsock, and another machine with a script running and acting as a fake isp through dosbox’s serial modem. The script runs only on linux, for a mac it requires to be reworked and I would like to run it all on my mac but I am not a programmer.

I’ve found this script here:
https://mainframed767.tumblr.com/post/1 ... er-at-last

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 121 of 128, by bfcastello

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GigAHerZ wrote on 2020-01-08, 22:29:

You need SMB1 support in host/server for dos/win3.11 client to be able to connect. Can Mac do that? (I'm not a mac user)

No, nope, nyet, nada. Just tried it again here at work. I will try and reboot after editing a few files, but seems that it won't work.

Probably I have to match the macOS username with the one in Windows 3.11 for it to log in and show me the money...

EDIT: I'm actually having trouble trying to enable the share folders and printers on WFW3.11 (just so I could see my Windows 3.11 shares on my other machines). When I enable it, exit Windows and try to log back in, Windows crashes on splash screen and stays there. I had to go into system.ini and undo these settings to be able to log back into windows.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 122 of 128, by bfcastello

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I did an experiment, I'm testing the WRP with WFW3.11. It works, I could go on VOGONS, and I've posted it using WRP. But it isn't that good. I hope Tenox can make it better and let us use the actual form fields instead of a "browser in a browser".

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 123 of 128, by keenmaster486

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bfcastello wrote on 2020-01-11, 04:43:

I did an experiment, I'm testing the WRP with WFW3.11. It works, I could go on VOGONS, and I've posted it using WRP. But it isn't that good. I hope Tenox can make it better and let us use the actual form fields instead of a "browser in a browser".

I don't know how possible this is; can old browsers even place form fields over the top of an image?

I think the future probably lies in running a headless modern browser and converting the DOM directly into something that just uses HTML tables.

I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.

Reply 124 of 128, by bfcastello

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They probably cannot, but WRP is almost on the right track. There are some things I didn't like, for example the controls inside (browser in a browser). The field to input text into the page form fields is damn small, even for the real text areas displayed on page. Why don't change that field according to the field type/size? Then it would be a little less strange.

As for the future... I don't see how it is possible to convert the DOM into HTML tables, IMO at least actual pages should be rendered without CSS styles and Javascript for ancient browsers on Win 3.x, while on Win 9x, Retrozilla is doing a pretty decent job (just missing Youtube really). It's the developers duty to make their websites backwards compatible, not ours. And this is possible with very little JS/jQuery and good CSS development (ie. "Graceful Degradation"). But many developers are lazy and just throw in a lot of frameworks, libraries into their projects and call it a day.

Since the update, I can't log into VOGONS on Win 3.x, only Win9.x and above. OK, things have to move forward, and Win 3.x is a very little niche for retro fans. Probably I can't log in on Win 3.x for the same reason you couldn't on Retrozilla before.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 125 of 128, by bfcastello

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What's the oldest Windows version supported by GIT?

I've been looking for ways to do retro web development on my VMs (Win 3.11 / Win 2k) and looks like I will have to access my MBP by FTP to get the files. For Win 2k I can use Dreamweaver (argh!) to edit the files, but no clue for what to use on Win 3.11.

EDIT: I've set up a FTP server on my macOS using QuickFTP Server (free appstore app) and used WS_FTP LE 4.5 on WFW 3.11 to log in. Works perfectly. Now on to find a Editor.

EDIT 2: Just set up a HTTPD instance on Windows 3.11 and I can't figure out how to make it available on my local network. I don't even know the IP given by VMware Fusion to this Guest machine. I suspect that I may have to set up a static ip somehow...

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 126 of 128, by Jo22

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bfcastello wrote on 2020-01-09, 11:15:
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Yeah, but I am actually trying to avoid using my rPi3 for that as a “bridge”, because I am always “on the move”, I work and do my fun stuff on my macbook or my iPad Pro. Both have a dosbox instance, but only the mac has a dosbox with ne2000 functionalities, and a VM on VMware Fusion.

Basically, I want to be able to connect to mIRC, surf the web a bit (I know it is limited really there today), read my emails on outlook, access the shares on my network, and run a webserver so I can develop low level websites (obviously I will not test them on IE5 and this machine!).

mIRC and shares do work, a webserver is possible, FTP is possible, SSH isn’t, read my emails is possible (with stunnel and another machine in the middle) and web browsing is also somewhat possible (maybe with webOne or the web rendering proxy script and another machine).

But I believe there is room for improvement and make it almost unnecessary to have a machine in the middle “translating” it between the VM and the internet.

[..]

I see. Ironically, WfW 3.11 was supported longer than Win9x (~2008 vs 2006), because it was an irreplaceable piece of software, esp. in the embedded sector:
Weak 486 era machines, like cash registers etc., were simply too powerless to run modern alternatives (even WinCE was more demanding at the time).
In addition, Windows 3.11 had an oddball network stack and was unable to run Win32/Win32c and Windows Scripting Host software,
which made it less vulnerable to security holes and malware, I suppose.

If this discussion had started 10 years earlier, I would have had suggested installing AppleTalk protocols on the Windows 3.1 system as a workaround for file sharing. 😀
There used to be a piece of DOS software that could be used for that purpose and supported NE2000 cards, too: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=748916#p748916
Alas, even on Mac systems the times have changed. Mac OS X 10.2 was the last of its kind with a full-fledged network stack in both directions (past and future).
Beginning with Mac OS X 10.4, the legacy stuff was being phased out quickly, making communcation with System 7 (and earlier) machines difficult.
As an interim solution, a Power Mac running Mac OS 8/9 or Mac OS X 10.2 is left.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 127 of 128, by Damaniel

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bfcastello wrote on 2020-01-14, 13:12:
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What's the oldest Windows version supported by GIT?

I've been looking for ways to do retro web development on my VMs (Win 3.11 / Win 2k) and looks like I will have to access my MBP by FTP to get the files. For Win 2k I can use Dreamweaver (argh!) to edit the files, but no clue for what to use on Win 3.11.

EDIT: I've set up a FTP server on my macOS using QuickFTP Server (free appstore app) and used WS_FTP LE 4.5 on WFW 3.11 to log in. Works perfectly. Now on to find a Editor.

EDIT 2: Just set up a HTTPD instance on Windows 3.11 and I can't figure out how to make it available on my local network. I don't even know the IP given by VMware Fusion to this Guest machine. I suspect that I may have to set up a static ip somehow...

I keep my git repos on my NAS and do the work with files located there (mainly on Win98). I have to do the actual git operations from a modern PC, but at least I can access my source (using SMB) from both locations.

Reply 128 of 128, by bfcastello

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I was browsing through retrozilla source files and one thing caught my attention: the configure.in has comments on OS_TARGET possibly being set to Win16. Like, could Retrozilla be ported to Win 3.11?! If so, how?

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.