that's strange, but check the BIOS settings, maybe it defaulted to HT on and this is messing things up in windows 98, or maybe some power saving option. also make sure that all the chipset drivers are installed and there are no yellow exclamation mark icons in device manager, reinstall the .inf update if needed.

Definitely check settings in BIOS. Sometimes you need to actually clear CMOS after a BIOS update for stuff to work properly again.

As for the RAM, I would highly recommend getting 2x 256MB DIMMs so you can run dual channel since single channel is going to really gimp the RAM throughput.

You could always add another 512MB stick after applying the R.Lowe RAM patch instead of using 2x 256MB sticks.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator% … olph+R.+Loew%22

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-11, 07:13:

Definitely check settings in BIOS. Sometimes you need to actually clear CMOS after a BIOS update for stuff to work properly agai […]
Show full quote

Definitely check settings in BIOS. Sometimes you need to actually clear CMOS after a BIOS update for stuff to work properly again.

As for the RAM, I would highly recommend getting 2x 256MB DIMMs so you can run dual channel since single channel is going to really gimp the RAM throughput.

You could always add another 512MB stick after applying the R.Lowe RAM patch instead of using 2x 256MB sticks.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator% … olph+R.+Loew%22

Well these are interesting and useful patches. Thank you for the link. I'll clear the bios when I get into work on tuesday but I just may go in tomorrow because I want to finish up this computer.

I suppose as side note I was getting similar performance issues on a D875PBZ which already had the latest bio on it (p35 i believe). It's actually what prompted me to get a D865PERL. On windows xp it ran just fine but windows 98 it did not.

auron wrote on 2021-04-11, 06:38:

that's strange, but check the BIOS settings, maybe it defaulted to HT on and this is messing things up in windows 98, or maybe some power saving option. also make sure that all the chipset drivers are installed and there are no yellow exclamation mark icons in device manager, reinstall the .inf update if needed.

Hyper Threading is disabled and in terms of power saving options I can only select S1 or S3. The chipset drivers are from phils website (Version 5.02.1003). I will try reinstalling them when I get back to work on tuesday. I did roll back the bios to p15 and the framerate went back up to the mid 30s for the benchmark nature test but unreal tournament fluctuated more wildly.

Do you miss any BIOS option?

I remember having a motherboard (I don't remember if it was my Athlon based QDI or my Athlon 64 one) that deleted some PCI related setting in a BIOS update. On their patch notes, they stated that they had to delete it because it was infringing some patent... I don't remember all the details, but maybe your old BIOS had an option that could improve performance.

p4 3.2 shouldn't have any trouble with ut99 really, if anything it might be rather too fast and the game tends to run unrealiably above 100fps. but regardless, check the cpu temp on load with a tool like aida64. also check whether there's any differences in memory timings between these bios versions - this shouldn't make that much of a difference though, but since you are on single channel, it could have more of an effect than on dual channel.

i'd try to disable the power saving features for a test, they were likely geared towards XP.

auron wrote on 2021-04-11, 13:32:

p4 3.2 shouldn't have any trouble with ut99 really, if anything it might be rather too fast and the game tends to run unrealiably above 100fps. but regardless, check the cpu temp on load with a tool like aida64. also check whether there's any differences in memory timings between these bios versions - this shouldn't make that much of a difference though, but since you are on single channel, it could have more of an effect than on dual channel.

i'd try to disable the power saving features for a test, they were likely geared towards XP.

The cpu temp is around 40 C (new old stock zalman cooler) and sadly i cannot disable the power saving options. I was actually hoping the bios update would give me the option because i've read about that being an issue for windows 98 on some boards.

Zup wrote on 2021-04-11, 13:23:

Do you miss any BIOS option?

I remember having a motherboard (I don't remember if it was my Athlon based QDI or my Athlon 64 one) that deleted some PCI related setting in a BIOS update. On their patch notes, they stated that they had to delete it because it was infringing some patent... I don't remember all the details, but maybe your old BIOS had an option that could improve performance.

Interesting... I haven't found any patch notes for these bios i've found. Intel doesn't host them anymore so i've had to find them from different places.

Did you try any of the interim releases between P15 & P21 (P17 & P19 are still available)? According to the engineering notes for P21, there were quite a number of changes in that version whereas there were hardly any between P15 & P20.

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2021-04-11, 23:21:

Did you try any of the interim releases between P15 & P21 (P17 & P19 are still available)? According to the engineering notes for P21, there were quite a number of changes in that version whereas there were hardly any between P15 & P20.

I have not tried those. May I ask where they are available still? I thought the intel website no longer hosted them. I only see "End of Interactive Support Notice: Intel no longer provides email, chat or phone support for this product."

Intel no longer host these old files but fortunately there are plenty of mirror sites which do. You can download the BIOS files here

https://rebyte.me/en/intel/

The engineering notes for P21, which includes the full BIOS history for it and all previous versions can be found here

http://cwcyrix.duckdns.org/intel-legacy-files … OS/P21-0089.pdf

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2021-04-12, 02:54:

Intel no longer host these old files but fortunately there are plenty of mirror sites which do. You can download the BIOS files […]
Show full quote

Intel no longer host these old files but fortunately there are plenty of mirror sites which do. You can download the BIOS files here

P17 - https://dl4.rebyte.me/files/ZODA2zaAJ0LPs3gDE … 0078.P17.EB.EXE

P19 - https://dl4.rebyte.me/files/v1t4E5lnUDssUv-7c … 0085.P19.EB.EXE

The engineering notes for P21, which includes the full BIOS history for it and all previous versions can be found here

http://cwcyrix.duckdns.org/intel-legacy-files … OS/P21-0089.pdf

The first two links seem to be down but the last one works. The second site has a few different versions but not those two. It's pretty cool what people have saved over the years.

Sorry, didn't realise rebyte were using time-limited direct links, so I've just attached them directly below

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2021-04-12, 18:48:

Sorry, didn't realise rebyte were using time-limited direct links, so I've just attached them directly below

RL86510A.86A.0078.P17.EB.EXE

RL86510A.86A.0085.P19.EB.EXE

Thank you for taking the time to link these. I'll report the results when I test them at work tomorrow.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-04-11, 07:13:

Definitely check settings in BIOS. Sometimes you need to actually clear CMOS after a BIOS update for stuff to work properly agai […]
Show full quote

Definitely check settings in BIOS. Sometimes you need to actually clear CMOS after a BIOS update for stuff to work properly again.

As for the RAM, I would highly recommend getting 2x 256MB DIMMs so you can run dual channel since single channel is going to really gimp the RAM throughput.

You could always add another 512MB stick after applying the R.Lowe RAM patch instead of using 2x 256MB sticks.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator% … olph+R.+Loew%22

I used the patcher added another stick and got one extra frame!

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2021-04-11, 23:21:

Did you try any of the interim releases between P15 & P21 (P17 & P19 are still available)? According to the engineering notes for P21, there were quite a number of changes in that version whereas there were hardly any between P15 & P20.

I installed P19 this morning and the frame rate were still in the mid thirties. I then installed p21 again, cleared the bios, updated the chipset drivers to 6.3.0.1007, ran the rampatch for 1gb of ram for windows 98 and the frame rate dropped in the nature benchmark of 3dmark 2001 again. Each time I did a step I reset the bios and tested the benchmark again to see if each step was the issue. At the moment it looks like I should stay at bios version P19 for windows 98. I haven't tried how it runs on windows XP because i have a different build for that. Any thoughts?

Suppose that's progress of sorts - at least you're on a newer BIOS. I do see a few posts online complaining of random issues following upgrades to P21, but nothing like yours.

Assuming its there, what's Intel board revision number (like 'AA Cxxxxx-xxx') and what are the full specs of the build components

PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2021-04-14, 06:21:

Suppose that's progress of sorts - at least you're on a newer BIOS. I do see a few posts online complaining of random issues following upgrades to P21, but nothing like yours.

Assuming its there, what's Intel board revision number (like 'AA Cxxxxx-xxx') and what are the full specs of the build components

model number: AAC27646-212

Motherboard: D865PERL (OS Win98SE)
Graphicss Card: Asus V8200 Deluxe Geforce 3 TI 200 (driver 45.23)
Ram: Kingston HyperX model KHX3200A/512R (two sticks now) (3:3:8)
Sound Card: Audigy 1 (started with an Audigy 2 ZS but wanted to check out the DOS drivers of the Audigy 1. The frames drop with both cards and with none)
HDD: WD1200 120GB
DVD drive: TSST corp CD/DVDW TS-H652D
Floppy is from an old dell