Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby dr_st » 2018-4-10 @ 16:50

tayyare wrote:Don't we need to add first, one of the "NOEMS" or "RAM" keys into EMM386.EXE command line, in order to load anything to upper memory area?

Yes, we do. In this case, it is obvious that it was forgotten and that is the reason no upper memory blocks were created.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby jmdlcar » 2018-4-10 @ 17:21

Here what happen. NOEMS I got error #06 and RAM the Computer just rebooted. My Dell Laptop was built in 2008 and it has 4GB of Ram.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby dr_st » 2018-4-10 @ 17:32

Try removing the HIGHSCAN. Just leave DEVICE=EMM386.EXE RAM
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby jmdlcar » 2018-4-10 @ 17:36

dr_st wrote:Try removing the HIGHSCAN. Just leave DEVICE=EMM386.EXE RAM

That is what I did,
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby elianda » 2018-4-10 @ 18:04

No, that is expected if you have e.g. a rather modern graphics card with a higher BIOS ROM footprint.
NOEMS disables EMS emulation and makes a 64 kB area available, typically at E000 that is used as page frame for the EMS emulation.
So you get 64 kB more UMA that can be converted to UMBs. However you don't have EMS functionality available anymore for programs that use it.
Classic VGA cards have a BIOS ROM footprint of 24 kB to 32 kB.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby jmdlcar » 2018-4-10 @ 19:49

I can tell you I am lost here @70 my mind is slow today at that age but I need still need help.
Last edited by jmdlcar on 2018-4-12 @ 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby jmdlcar » 2018-4-12 @ 01:10

Well I guest I will have to live what I have.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby jmdlcar » 2018-4-16 @ 02:34

Will my problem is my Computer I change to an Acer aspire one and now it shows this. Sorry the way it look
Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
MSDOS 16,125 (16K) 16,125 (16K) 0 (0K)
HIMEM 1,120 (1K) 1,120 (1K) 0 (0K)
EMM386 4,144 (4K) 4,144 (4K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 2,928 (3K) 2,928 (3K) 0 (0K)
MOUSE 17,296 (17K) 17,296 (17K) 0 (0K)
SETVER 512 (1K) 0 (0K) 512 (1K)
SMARTDRV 29,024 (28K) 0 (0K) 29,024 (28K)
Free 648,448 (633K) 613,616 (599K) 34,832 (34K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Conventional 655,360 41,744 613,616
Upper 64,368 29,536 34,832
Reserved 393,216 393,216 0
Extended (XMS) 65,995,920 2,409,616 63,586,304
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Total memory 67,108,864 2,874,112 64,234,752

Total under 1 MB 719,728 71,280 648,448

Largest executable program size 613,520 (599K)
Largest free upper memory block 34,736 (34K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

I know the mouse didn't load high but I am not sure what else should.

There no CD in this Laptop.

CONFIG.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILES=30
BUFFERS=20
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,2)
rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVER\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001

AUTOEXEC.BAT
@ECHO OFF
LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE 2048 128
rem LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001 /L:D
LH C:\MOUSE\MOUSE.COM /Y
PATH C:\;C:\DOS;C:\NC;C:\PKWARE;C:\WORKS;C:\QB;C:\WORD
PROMPT $p$g
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP\
rem SET SOUND=C:\SB16
rem SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
rem SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:G
rem LH C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
rem LH C:\SB16\SB16SET /P
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby oeuvre » 2018-4-26 @ 13:50

Try this

CONFIG.SYS

SWITCHES /F
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /Q /TESTMEM:OFF /NUMHANDLES=128
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B000-B7FF AUTO NOTR
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=50
LASTDRIVE=F
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,2)
rem DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVER\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001

I like using VIDE-CDD.SYS instead of OAKCDROM.SYS and substitute MSCDEX with SHSUCDX

Leave AUTOEXEC.BAT the way it is. Which mouse driver are you using? I would use ctmouse http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby OldCat » 2018-6-26 @ 10:59

Oooh, I like this thread. Marked for future reference.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby 0kool » 2018-7-14 @ 18:44

Hey guys, I've been using QEMM on my main DOS/3.11 machine (P133, 16RAM, VIRGE DX and non-PnP SB16) with various success for some time now, but decided to go the classy way. I understand that a single config can't run 'em all, but so far I'm mostly happy with it. Two issues - unable to start NFS SE DOS installer (works in DOSBox) and Adlib Tracker freezes ("page fault") the PC on track load every other boot.

Did I messed something up memory-wise? Is there anything I could have done better? I'm particularly attached to msmouse, mscdex, oakcdrom and NC, so those are untouchables.

AUTOEXEC.BAT
@ECHO OFF
SET SOUND=C:\DRIVERS\SB16
SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE AUTO
LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /S /D:MSCD000 /l:D
LH C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE
SET MOUSE=C:\DRIVERS\MOUSE
LH C:\DRIVERS\MOUSE\MOUSE.COM /Y
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS;C:\NC;
PROMPT $p$g
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\TEMP
LH C:\DRIVERS\VGA\XMODE.EXE MONITOR
LH C:\NC\NC.EXE


CONFIG.SYS
SWITCHES /F
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=D
FCBS=4,0
STACKS=9,256
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /Q /TESTMEM:OFF /NUMHANDLES=128
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE I=B000-B7FF RAM AUTO NOTR
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DRV\CSP.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\CDROM\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD000
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /P


MEMORY
conventional - used 60,528 - free 594,832
upper - used 96,288 - free 29,520
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby dr_st » 2018-7-14 @ 19:32

Quick suggestions:

Remove the BUFFERS= and FCBS= lines (no reason to mess with the defaults typically).

Use CTMOUSE instead of MOUSE and VIDE-CDD instead of OAKCDROM (shouldn't affect stability but use substantially less RAM).

No need to run EMM386 from AUTOEXEC.

What does XMODE.EXE do and why do you need it?

Remove /S switch for MSCDEX unless you really need to share your CDROM drive via WfWg servers, and add /E (to use EMS, and less normal RAM)
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby 0kool » 2018-7-15 @ 07:14

Thanks dr_st! I readjusted the files according to your advice and will consider swapping my oakcdrom driver for the acer one later.

As for XMODE.EXE - 3.11 Virge DX driver I've got from vogonsdrivers only gives me 60 hertz in Windows (with any resolution/color depth). So I'm using a tool from Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 package to make it 85. Strange, with Virge GX, 3.11 and the exact same monitor on the other machine everything was fine with just an appropriate driver.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby dr_st » 2018-7-15 @ 07:24

0kool wrote:As for XMODE.EXE - 3.11 Virge DX driver I've got from vogonsdrivers only gives me 60 hertz in Windows (with any resolution/color depth). So I'm using a tool from Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 package to make it 85
I assume you are using a CRT monitor? For most LCDs anything over 60Hz is useless and only makes things worse.

Also, LASTDRIVE=D? I assume it means you have a single hard drive partition and a single CD-ROM drive and don't plan on expanding it? I am not sure if any programs may have issues with this (like, trying to create a temporary 'virtual drive'). Maybe you can at least make it LASTDRIVE=E so you have more room (this will not use so much extra memory).
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby 0kool » 2018-7-15 @ 07:42

dr_st wrote:I assume you are using a CRT monitor?

I do :happy:
dr_st wrote:LASTDRIVE=D

Single CD-ROM and partition. I just like for everything to be tight. Ok, let's make it E, with them theoretical virtual drives and all.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby Baoran » 2018-11-27 @ 01:41

Bit newer Athlon64 pc and I am trying to see if I can get dos to work with reasonable amount of conventional memory. Basically something is using 64Kb at E000. When trying to get ems working by default settings emm386 ram auto, it can't find any place in upper memory for page frame segment base. Checkit marks those 64Kb at E000 as hi ram and UMBINFO just says it is RAM and refuses to view it. I=E000-EFFF makes floppy drive stop working in dos which I assume is the dma thing. Frame=E000 works, but gives a warning about detecting RAM or ROM there, but floppy drive works and I have EMS. No idea what kind of issues this might cause while actually running games.
I left the like as:
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM AUTO FRAME=E000 I=B000-B7FF

I left is as that because that was the only way to get reasonably good amount of conventional memory with ems, cd driver and mouse driver. I think I have about 584Kb of conventional memory with that setting.
Anyone has any idea of better way because I have no idea what kind of problems that Frame address at E000 can cause?
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby oeuvre » 2018-11-27 @ 14:52

Post the rest of your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby Baoran » 2018-11-27 @ 16:20

oeuvre wrote:Post the rest of your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT


Sure, but I didn't think they mattered because, there was nothing special about them. Just trying to get sound, mouse and optical drive working while having enough conventional memory. Main problem is where I should put the frame with emm386.exe.
I just don't think I could do anythin in bios either that would free some memory in UMA.

config.sys:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=65536
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM auto highscan FRAME=E000 I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=40
DOS=HIGH,UMB
LASTDRIVE=I
FCBS=4,0
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\CD1.SYS /D:OPTDRV

Autoexec.bat:

@echo off
path c:\;C:\dos
c:\dos\ctmouse.exe
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
LH /L:1,20448 keyb su,,C:\dos\keyboard.sys
C:\YAMAHA\SETUPDS.EXE /S
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
LH /L:2,28032 MSCDEX /D:OPTDRV /L:G
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby Baoran » 2018-11-27 @ 17:49

I just tested a bit and having Frame=E000 causes crashes when running dos games. It looks like having ems in dos is bit impossible with this motherboard unless there is something else I can do.
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Re: Dos 6 conventional memory tricks

Postby elianda » 2018-11-27 @ 17:58

You already wrote this. Since you noticed that Floppy does not support DMA any more when E000 is included then DMA when attributed as page frame won't work as well.

Usually DMA stops working if the UMB is generated by Shadow RAM when the mainboard does not support DMA from Shadow RAM or if UMB is generated from XMS regions where no DMA is possible. For ISA DMA generally there is a 16 MB limit. I don't know how HIMEMX provides XMS to EMM386 to generate UMBs, but the /MAX=65536 indicated that you enable more than 16 MB. Now if the XMS that is provided by HIMEMX to be mapped at E000 for virtual EMS is from an area beyond 16 MB physical it could be the source of non working DMA.
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