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Reply 120 of 189, by obobskivich

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Darkman wrote:

well, the box I got mentions the Radeon 9800 as a recommended card, but apparently the game has issues with that too.

Not surprising; I mean what are they gonna do? Admit that it has issues with everything but NV2x based parts, which don't have enough performance to run it at very high settings? 😵

If I remember to dig around in my parts box I might be able to find a cooler for my 6800; as far as I'm aware that should just "drop in" in place of the FX 5800 (I should have new enough drivers installed to support that). I'm not expecting it to work without problems though - it seems to get "worse" as the hardware gets newer. 😒 I'm waiting on a few newer cards too, if you're really interested (they'll be going into different machines, and I like to test that everything works with 3D; figure I could kill two birds with one stone this way).

As far as Pandora Tomorrow - I know I received it as an add-in with some graphics card (I think the 6800), if I can find the disc I'd be glad to give it a shot, but you'd have to tell me where to go in the game for such an example (it's not a game I've ever played).

Reply 121 of 189, by Darkman

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youre looking for the Jakarta TV station level , there are saves you can download and you can use my pics as reference.

I would at least have expected them to solve the issue if they managed it with SC1 (it wasn't as nice, but at least it worked) , surely they could have managed something, thankfully this is the exception rather than the rule.

I also picked up Chaos Theory with Pandora Tomorrow (the guy must have traded them all in, since they had the orignal too) , Im hoping that one doesn't have any issues

Reply 122 of 189, by Mau1wurf1977

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Chaos Theory shouldn't have any issues and works well on modern machines. Apart from the copy protection which can cause issues on 64 bit machines 😀

But there is a version on Steam and likely GOG.com will have one soon.

CT is my favourite game. PC gaming at its finest. It is also very clear on that you can play the game without killing anyone and has a success indicator at the end of each level. The EAX sound under XP with a X-Fi is also very good.

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Reply 123 of 189, by Darkman

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if thats the only issue it won't be a problem , remember Im running it on plain old 32bit WinXP Pro.

with the exception of that game every other game responds better than it did under Win7, Im also running it using my Apple Studio Display ,the GPU has 2 DVI outputs, so I set it so that XP only uses the CRT , while Win7 only uses the HD LCD , pretty good setup apart from the few games that support true Widescreen.

the newest game I plan to use with it might be Oblivion , I was thinking of putting Bioshock on it, but that game works decently well with Win7, has widescreen , and I believe the EAX effects are through OpenAL.

Reply 124 of 189, by Mau1wurf1977

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Bioshock has DX10 effects and OpenAL. So yes, W7 is the way to go for this one.

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Reply 125 of 189, by obobskivich

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Bioshock has DX10 effects and OpenAL. So yes, W7 is the way to go for this one.

Indeed; Vista or 7 if you want DX10. I've actually not run Bioshock under 7, but it was fine under Vista (just like under XP in terms of stability/ease of use; the "gotcha" is you can now tick the DX10 effects options in config). Bioshock 2 runs fine under 7x64; FWIW.

Oblivion, last I knew, did not officially support Vista or later, but tends to run on them just fine (the retail version of the game has essentially zero copy protection but is unstable if left unpatched; the Steam version will force it up to the latest patches but Steam may bring in its own issues). My advice would be to look into both the Bethesda patches, and the unofficial patches, as well as a third-party launcher/mod-manager (even if you aren't running any other mods) just to improve stability more than anything else.

Reply 126 of 189, by Darkman

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yeah Bioshock runs fine with Win7 , although I have to say I played the game in both DX10 and 9 modes and I can hardly see the difference,seems like DX10 was more or less ignored by most developers in general , probably a combination of consoles really doing well and Vista not being accepted due to needing a diet.

Reply 127 of 189, by obobskivich

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Darkman wrote:

yeah Bioshock runs fine with Win7 , although I have to say I played the game in both DX10 and 9 modes and I can hardly see the difference,seems like DX10 was more or less ignored by most developers in general , probably a combination of consoles really doing well and Vista not being accepted due to needing a diet.

I actually was able to side-by-side it on two systems (one with a GeForce 8800 and Windows Vista and one with a GeForce 7900 and Windows XP) a few years ago, and personally the only places I've ever noticed the DX10 effects "kicking in" are the intro (where you're swimming/floating and then as you enter Rapture itself), and the Hapheustus level. In both cases the "DX10 effects" were mostly related to the water/reflection; I'm guessing there are more subtle examples as you move throughout the game, but it's nothing that jumped out and grabbed me. Certainly not as dramatic as say, switching Half-Life 2 from a DX7/8 rendering path into 9.0c with HDR. Both systems seemed to run the game equally well, so whatever extra performance cost DX10 brings, the GeForce 8800 was able to offset with its extra processing power (and a more modern card shouldn't have any problems I would suspect).

Reply 128 of 189, by Mau1wurf1977

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Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell PC Walkthrough: Part 8: Abattoir (GeForce4 Shadow Buffers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM2Vf6P2M3s

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Reply 129 of 189, by notindeed

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Hmm so i'm not quite sure i understood, does the 5900 work correctly pretending to be a 4800 SE or not? hmmmmm.
You seemed to say that it was working and then decided not to use it? I guess you would need both cards to do this anyway..

Also, in your video with the "flashing texture bug", even with the 4800 SE, the lighting seems to go kind of weird / buggy ! when you rotate the camera, it shows random lights flashing on that look somehow a bit weird. (see 9:27 or so of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip_TqzwSjhA )
Just wondering if i got a 4800 SE if it would handle PT okay too.

Mind you it might be better just to get the xbox versions. But then i suppose the downloadable levels won't be available unless they can be gotten from some fansite somehow and installed on xbox.

Or maybe the PS3 re-release is the one to get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEjS3GAYaHU
Not being familiar with the games at all i don't know if it breaks anything or is a good port or not - i heard it's based on the pc version anyway.

This might be of interest to you:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/4494/t222702- … -vs-gcn-vs-ps2/

The lighting in the xbox version looks kind of a bit better in some shots. But then you are trading down resolution and texture size, so it's kind of difficult 😒
I find it hard to believe what they say about the xbox's audio being better? But then i could be wrong.

Also, here's the same for Pandora Tomorrow:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2004/04/01/splinte … ow-head-to-head

Mentions rumbling supported on xbox when lock-picking, not sure if the first game has this or not too.

Does the PC version allow analogue movement like the xbox? Or is there any way to mod / hack in support for it? The mouse wheel speed control seems like it would be kind of "cheaty" somehow and less fun and fluid.

I've never tried any splinter cell games myself, i always assumed they were just linear and kind of superficial stealth, forcing you to take everyone out, which isn't really stealth at all.
To be honest, very few games have done stealth like the first two thief games anyway, which is kind of sad. I guess the first 2 Deus Ex games we some of the closest in that regard really.

But yer, amusingly enough, the thief games apparently actually DO have analogue movemnt if you set them up to use a joystick! This sounds really cool even though i've never tried it. I want to when i install them again! To be honest, some kind of thumbstick / joystick and mouse approach for PC gaming would be really cool cos then you could have proper analogue movement and all the benefits of the mouse.
The only thing you need to make sure is that there are enough keys nearby / on your joystick / controller to not run out of keys. Either that or have a thumbstick on the side of your mouse / keyboard!

It's sad that even if you did manage to get some setup like that, not really any fps / action-adventure games really suppose that kind of analogue movement on PC. At least ones before "controller support" was standard.
Mind you, even ones that do allow controller support, i imagine they disable the mouse while doing so (which would be really crap if so).

Reply 130 of 189, by Mau1wurf1977

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When I started this thread I believed the FX was the best option. However it was only later into the game that I saw some of the shadow glitches.

The tiles reflecting is a lot worse on the FX compared to the Ti. There are some minor texture issues on all cards, for example in the hallways of the foreign ministry.

The PC version uses the mouse wheel to change the speed of the character and I believe you can't change that.

So currently my recommendation for this game is a GeForce4 with ForceWare 45.23.

The XBox version is the original. While I have the game I don't have the console 😊 I tried it in the 4GB 360 but it tells me I need a hard drive to play the game. I would love to see the 480p mode on an original Xbox. The PC version is based on the XBox version, hence the close technical ties but you do get better resolution.

The PC version does support EAX, but you need a Creative Audigy or higher.

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Reply 131 of 189, by notindeed

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Hmm i understood you'd kind of "mostly sorted" the problem with these two posts:
YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Not sure what the issue is apart from the shiny texture bug which kind of seems half broken even on the 4800 SE or at least a bit weird.

I have an original xbox, i just need to mod it to allow for progressive scan output.
Mind you i don't have anything that can record from component. I wonder if an original xbox can be hacked to output vga too cos that would be cool.

If i can hack my original Tivo to record uncompressed somehow and somehow get files off of it (not sure might take a lot of reading and dunno if possible) then i could potentially record RGB scart (so 576i or 480i).

If that's of any help?

Reply 132 of 189, by Mau1wurf1977

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I never had the original XBox so not sure. S-Video could be on option?

Yea I though the FX workaround (forcing a GeForce4 driver) was the magic cure, but then discovered that the car lights (and likely other lights) simply don't work on the FX. And I tried many drivers.

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Reply 133 of 189, by obobskivich

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The Xbox shouldn't need any "mods" to output component video - just the correct component video cables. I believe they also output VGA under certain circumstances as well (just like the PlayStation 2 can); however if memory serves that's either a custom cable or a custom connector being added to provide that feature.

Reply 135 of 189, by Mau1wurf1977

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Maybe it's the NTSC mod for getting 480P?

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Reply 136 of 189, by obobskivich

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d1stortion wrote:

The PS2 can't do VGA, if you look at its AV pinout it lacks the pins for H-/V-Sync. Only SoG monitors will work with VGA.

Could this be any more of an OT nitpick? 😵 (really, PS2 has nothing at all to do with this thread; I was just mentioning it as another example and respond to the "can it be hacked" question more than anything else 😀)

The PS2 supports VGA (RGB output) for SoG compatible displays out of the box (hence "under certain circumstances"); not only for games that support Progressive Scan, but also as part of the PS2-Linux kit. When the PS2-Linux website was active, they maintained a list of SoG compatible displays; I'm sure such lists exist elsewhere if one was inclined to look. The PS2 has pins for H/V-sync as well, which can be tapped into if you're inclined towards opening the box up; http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:playstation_2_rgb_sync

For the original question about Xbox:
This is the type of cable you would need to get component video out:
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Component-Video-Ca … e/dp/B00005TN7U (doesn't have to be Monster Cable, that was just the easiest result)

And the Xbox, as with the PS2, should be "hackable" to have a VGA output as well (which was the original question...). Such as here: https://web.archive.org/web/20120429014930/ht … howtopic=624248
Or here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070316203449/ht … /Xbox_VGA_HOWTO

FINALLY - there shouldn't be huge, gaping differences in quality between YPbPr and RGB. So while VGA/RGB can be "got" from some consoles, it's likely much easier to live with YPbPr. Hence why I said "certain circumstances" - it's kind of an obtuse feature for either console, and shouldn't be needed for a high quality image in normal use (for example plugging into a TV). But it's not an impossible feat - especially if you're already resigned to chopping the console up. 😀

If the goal is just compatibility with a VGA capture device, I'd probably go with a converter unless you just want to experiment with adding ports/features to an old console; YPbPr to VGA converters do exist (Monoprice sells them, for example).

It would be very interesting to see captures from an original Xbox running this game with the shadows for comparison - it's probably as close to "truth" as we'll get for what the game is meant to look like. 🤣

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Maybe it's the NTSC mod for getting 480P?

You mean this kind of mod, that needs Splinter Cell to be performed (:lol:)?

http://xbmcxbox.blogspot.com/p/tutorial.html

Also doing some additional looking around, there's apparently a GameCube version of this game that has different levels/functionality than the PC/Xbox variants...it never ends, does it? 🤣

Last edited by obobskivich on 2014-05-03, 10:47. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 137 of 189, by notindeed

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Yes, you're right - my xbox is pal which for some reason they disabled progressive scan over component on.
It requires a softmod to enable it.

EDIT - I heard that you could now softmod an xbox without requiring any games (e.g. not even splinter cell?).

From what i read, the xbox doesn't support vga normally at all. But i might have seen that you can mod it in and get it to work with some games - not sure.

With the ps2, that used to have a linux developers kit that allowed vga output, however it didn't support vga for games. However there is a softmod that allows for the forcing of VGA with games. It doesn't work with every game though apparently.
Not sure if people have forced it to output h/v sync instead of sync on green. If not then i assume people have built circuits to convert the sync signal.

I haven't tried either of these two things yet (my ps2won't even play dvds atm as i need to adjust the optical drive laser!).

Reply 138 of 189, by obobskivich

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notindeed wrote:

Yes, you're right - my xbox is pal which for some reason they disabled progressive scan over component on.
It requires a softmod to enable it.

😒

EDIT - I heard that you could now softmod an xbox without requiring any games (e.g. not even splinter cell?).

I don't know about that. 😊

From what i read, the xbox doesn't support vga normally at all. But i might have seen that you can mod it in and get it to work with some games - not sure.

Xbox can output 480p/720p/1080i depending on the game, natively it will want to do component (in your case "natively" is post-softmod), but VGA should be possible through modding (I've added links to my previous post - took a bit to find them (I really, really despise "Xbox One")).

With the ps2, that used to have a linux developers kit that allowed vga output, however it didn't support vga for games. However there is a softmod that allows for the forcing of VGA with games. It doesn't work with every game though apparently.
Not sure if people have forced it to output h/v sync instead of sync on green. If not then i assume people have built circuits to convert the sync signal.

My understanding is that PS2 "wants" to output in YPbPr as part of its copy-protection scheme (Macrovision apparently doesn't work with RGB), and further cannot output into RGB unless its sending a progressive signal (and not all games on PS2 will support pscan). Much easier to live with YPbPr methinks.

But as you asked - can it be "hacked" - and the answer is "yes" for both. Personally I'd probably just spend the $50 or so on a YPbPr to VGA converter and live with that; softmod the Xbox to support pscan and be finished with it. 😀

Something like this jobber:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_ … &seq=1&format=2

Reply 139 of 189, by notindeed

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Okay thanks, once i get round to sorting out my consoles i'll give it a go.
I've already got a component to vga transcoder but it's not a very good one sadly, or at least i couldn't get it to work well.
If you know anything about them, it's this one: http://sewelldirect.com/MayFlash-Component-to-VGA-Box.asp

-----------------

A long shot, but have you tried driver 40.27 while forcing it as another card?
Unlikely to work but worth a try.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/104761-G … ter-Cell-Forums

Well problem is the last driver that worked perfectly with Splinter Cell was somewhere around the 40.27 driver release. This drivers and older (30.xx) will work perfectly with Splinter Cell(1) on Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 (MX.. I don't know how Ti's behaves though).