YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-10 @ 14:54

I merely followed in your footsteps, trying to mimic your own video. You can see that Sam's shadow definitely interacts with the environment while going up the ladder. Look at the wooden wall and how the shadow is cast and actually follows Sam's movement.
I'll boot up the PC later and see if I can find another point where this can be exposed.

Also, I didn't force anything. This is how the game defaulted. That's the reason I was taken aback and posted here instantly.
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-10 @ 14:59

As I explained, following my video is not going to help you as I was comparing the two shadow modes. You want to compare forcing buffer shadows onto unsupported hardware vs. how it looks on supported hardware e.g. GeForce3 and 4.
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-10 @ 15:07

Once again, challenge gladly accepted. This may take up my afternoon, but I'll get through the first couple of levels :evil: .
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-10 @ 15:14

This might help.

It's my first and only walkthrough of a game. Using GeForce4:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... -DkDoDmec1

So it shows more than the comparison video. Hope link works. A good scene is quite deep into the game when guards have head lights and use search lights. Maybe you can find save games online.

And it's not a challenge. This is known since for over 10 years. Thousands of people have tried all sorts of things. The documentation explains it in detail...
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-10 @ 15:35

Okay, I've managed to find a save pack containing multiple saves for each mission. I have never really played the game before, which levels do you think would be the best to showcase this? I've seen a video of yours where the floor and some shadows would glitch out, which levels where these in?
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-10 @ 15:43

Don't take this the wrong way, but I sunk months into this game / project and I really have other things to do :blah:
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-11 @ 00:20

Okay, so I had the time to complete the Tutorial level and the first mission. I recorded a few sections where the game seems to work exactly as it should. I did try the CIA mission and did notice the shiny floor thing, although I didn't get that on video. I didn't notice any other anomalies though and really, if the game misses a couple of shadows or two, it still manages to look amazing for the time and the Shadow Buffers still look far better than Projectors.

My machine is able to play at 1600x1200 at mostly 60 fps, I'm pretty sure I could do some AA without too many framedrops. Honestly Phil, if the FX's are behaving the same way as my card, I'd rather go with the faster cards for this game. However, your opinion still stands, the game does produce a couple of glitches with my card, so it is not perfect, but I really don't mind because I can get much higher framerates and resolutions. Anyway, testing and recording was fun and now that I know that I have an optimal PC to play the game, I might just do that :).

Does Pandora Tomorrow not run at all outside of a select few video cards? Why is that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Fpm1c ... e=youtu.be
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-11 @ 02:35

Let me know when you get to the level with the search lights and guards that have flash lights.

What your're doing you can do on any current graphics card! It's no different than grabbing the Steam and GOG version, using Windows 8.1 and a modern GPU, set ForceShadowMode =1

EDIT: Just had a quick look and think I found parts of the first mission. Can you please record the training mission, from the intro. The whole thing basically.
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-11 @ 08:06

So, you're telling me modern GPUs will do this good a job? That's good to know! What really surprised me was that I didn't have to force this Shadow Mode, the game automatically picked it, where as I thought this would only happen with GF3/4 cards.

Unfortunately, I can't do a full mission video, the HDD on this PC is a mere 60GBs and recording uncompressed will fill it up in just a matter of minutes. Plus, I don't feel like going through the same training level again :dead: . I have sat through your walkthrough video for the training mission and have found no visual differences to my PC. Maybe you can pinpoint specific parts in your video that are subject to glitches?
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-11 @ 09:13

No that would be adding bias.

Thing is you came here, claiming to have done something that nobody has ever achieved, that the developers say doesn't work, having modified nothing, it "just works".

You looked at the first level, saw some shadows: OMGZ%$# I'm so awesome I have fixed this issue, let's share it with the world! LOL

Do you see what I mean?

Just play the game at 800 x 600 and the recordings will be a lot smaller. The training level is just a few minutes.
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-10-11 @ 10:24

philscomputerlab wrote:Thing is you came here, claiming to have done something that nobody has ever achieved, that the developers say doesn't work, having modified nothing, it "just works".

You looked at the first level, saw some shadows: OMGZ%$# I'm so awesome I have fixed this issue, let's share it with the world! LOL

Do you see what I mean?


Ok wow. When did I ever exhibit such an attitude? I have been nothing but polite and trying to be as helpful as possible, but it turns out you don't see it that way. It's too bad, because I just came in here to post my findings so that people that want to play this game at some point can have an alternative.
But, right from the start you were sarcastic and totally downplayed me, despite the fact that I was just trying to help and have "delivered" with two videos and spent some hours on this. Even if you look at my first post you'll see that I wasn't too quick to say that it is working as it should. I even explicitly said that it probably exhibits the same glitches as the FX cards, but I don't know how to exploit those glitches.

I haven't fixed anything. I've said it a million times by now, but the game works like this on my setup after installation of the latest patch. I haven't forced anything, haven't touched any .ini or .cfg files. From the start of this thread, people have been wondering whether Shadow Buffers are worth it or whether they should just play the game on a modern PC with much higher framerates/resolutions/AA. I was under the impression that Shadow Buffers will only work on GF3/4, I had no knowledge that Shadow Buffers actually work on modern systems and only produce the same glitches that the FX cards do. I thought they wouldn't work at all on newer cards, at least that's the impression I got from your posts. And excuse me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you ever explicitly stated that.

I know you've sunk way too much time in this and have been disappointed with the results, that's why you're probably acting like an elitist. I don't deserve this however. I have no intentions to "debunk" your work, in case that's how you feel. I truly love the work you put on so many projects and merely wish I had the time, space, money and courage to put out so much quality content. I honestly admire you, please don't alter my perception of you being a well-meaning guy.

I think I've made my point, I don't want to discuss this any further. I have no idea what you mean by bias. As long as it helps showcase glitches, how is it bias? Nonetheless, I don't wish to continue this and will not record any more videos, since it will only lead to further friction between me and you, apparently. I think I've made my point anyway.

PS: As for phrases like "challenge accepted", these were merely there to poke fun.
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-11 @ 11:03

I had no knowledge that Shadow Buffers actually work on modern systems and only produce the same glitches that the FX cards do


And that's simply incorrect.

I don't want to discuss this any further


That's cool, but I still like to respond to your lengthy outburst.

You made a claim, didn't back it up with evidence, you asked me what to look for, I did my best to explain it, but your video shows different scenes. I explained that my video compares buffered with projected shadows and NOT running buffer shadows on unsupported hardware but you ignored this.

You made a claim, don't have any evidence, you dismiss what hundreds of thousands of other people tested, what Ubisoft and Nvidia say, you haven't even played the game from start to finish, when asked to investigate further you make excuses "computer to old, can't be bothered", to which I offered an alternative, and when called out you act all drama?
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby squareguy » 2014-10-13 @ 02:53

Phil,

Did you ever have any luck with the Quadro based cards?
Gateway 2000 Case and 200-Watt PSU
Intel SE440BX-2 Motherboard
Intel Pentium III 450 CPU
Micron 384MB SDRAM (3x128)
Compaq Voodoo3 3500 TV Graphics Card
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Western Digital 7200-RPM, 8MB-Cache, 160GB Hard Drive
Windows 98 SE
User avatar
squareguy
Oldbie
 
Posts: 888
Joined: 2013-9-22 @ 14:14
Location: USA

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-10-13 @ 05:09

squareguy wrote:Phil,

Did you ever have any luck with the Quadro based cards?


Yes!

Fully compatible :)

Tried with the Quadro driver as well as forcing the GeForce driver.

Haven't tested Pandora Tomorrow yet however. Not at all. But got the game. As multiple CD version and as DVD version. One day...
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-11-07 @ 08:46

Got a bit bored yesterday so here it is. Splinter Cell on a 6800GT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lchzUQ6 ... e=youtu.be
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-11-07 @ 10:34

F2bnp wrote:Got a bit bored yesterday so here it is. Splinter Cell on a 6800GT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lchzUQ6 ... e=youtu.be


First glitch at 0:05, second glitch at 0:08. Third glitch in that entire first scene.

Image

XXL: http://i.imgur.com/lIt8WbJ.jpg

Image

XXL: http://i.imgur.com/3wu3HQS.jpg

Image

XXL: http://i.imgur.com/fdElKVT.jpg
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby F2bnp » 2014-11-07 @ 14:34

Thumbs up for the immediate reply!

If this shows up in gameplay sections, it certainly isn't minor then! Phil, whenever you feel like it or have time to do so, would you mind taking a look at the rest of the level to spot glitches like these?
Also, since you've tried GeForce FX cards with this game, is the 6800 rendering the game like these cards or is it completely different?
User avatar
F2bnp
l33t
 
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2007-9-23 @ 10:19

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2014-11-07 @ 15:21

The FX renders more scenes correctly that newer cards, but not all of them. With a GeForce4 just set the details one setting lower and you should have decent frame rates with almost the same quality. I did a comparison video back then but it got minimal views so I'm not going to upload them again but you can test this easily for yourself. Especially with the thermal vision at maximum quality the frame rate plummets.

There are likely lots of more glitches but like I said I never compared GeForce4 vs. newer cards in buffer mode. In many cases the glitches reveal themselves when you turn the camera a certain angle or you see a shadow of yourself where it shouldn't be or you go somewhere and a light fades away or gets brighter as you approach. When I looked for differences I had two machines side by side and played through a few levels. I took save games of scenes showing differences and then used them to capture footage on each machine. It was very tedious I must say :dead:

I'd much rather move into Pandora Tomorrow to be honest that revisit Splinter Cell. But now with YT and 60 fps you newer know...
User avatar
PhilsComputerLab
Hardware Mod
 
Posts: 6179
Joined: 2014-9-28 @ 03:33
Location: Western Australia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby Half-Saint » 2014-11-07 @ 20:18

I've never played Splinter Cell and reading about it again makes me want to at least try it :)
Image
Image
User avatar
Half-Saint
Oldbie
 
Posts: 849
Joined: 2013-7-26 @ 04:27
Location: Slovenia

Re: YT Video: Building a retro gaming PC for Splinter Cell!

Postby daniel_u » 2015-5-05 @ 13:46

I played a few days ago SC(1.3) with config modified for buffer mode and Geforce2 and i saw the shadows . I used 7950gx2 and XP. Driver 74.20 i think
Also played the CIA level and all shadows seemed ok. I also dont see shiny surfaces. The headlights of the car work. I can see them
Are theare any levels/parts i need to check to see if there are other problems.? The projector mode did not render any shadows.

The only bug i saw is some strage color of the light in some areas or when i move the mouse the pattern and color change.

First glitch at 0:05, second glitch at 0:08. Third glitch in that entire first scene.
User avatar
daniel_u
Member
 
Posts: 226
Joined: 2015-1-11 @ 12:19

PreviousNext

Return to Software

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: knowledge [bot], Srandista and 2 guests