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Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby Nahuel » 2017-3-29 @ 00:51

well, after nearly 3 months i finally got *ALMOST* all the pieces i need for a build, but im having problems with 1 thing on my p5ld2-se, cant get the ide controllers to work.This is the list of pieces i have for a w98, XP and 7 build with pcie:

core2duo e6700 (for now until i get enough money for a x6800)
mother asus p5ld2-se
1 stick 512mb ddr2 800 (for windows 98 setup, then ill limit with himemx) and 4 sticks of ocz 1gb ddr2 800 platinum (for xp and 7)
1 sata 80gb and 1 250gb hdd
2 geforce 6800 ultra and 2 6800 gs (only 1 for the build of course)
no sound card for now, maybe ill get a 5.1live or audigy zs2
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-3-29 @ 01:52

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby Nahuel » 2017-3-29 @ 21:48

ill try using the sata disk with an adapter to ide and p-ata only on the bios
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby tincup » 2017-3-31 @ 16:00

Yes, you'll probably need to fiddle around in the bios to set the HDs correctly for XP/Sata and W98/Sata IDE Mode as there doesn't seem to be a consistent nomenclature for Sata IDE/legacy modes across different motherboard/bios . But once you get the routine down it's pretty quick. If you use separate HDs for each system you may find you need to reboot a second time during the bios switch to re-initialize the IDE HDs - usually when switching between W98/IDE and XP/Sata mode, as the sata HDs won't be immediately visible in bios in the W98 setup.

In my XP/W98 build I use a separate HD for each system (IDE for W98) so In addition to switching Sata/IDE settings, I also switch the boot drive. Perhaps the second bios reboot I mentioned isn't necessary if both system reside on a single Sata drive with adapter.

Also, If you enable APCI in XP you'll probably need to disable it in W98

Edited for clarity
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-3-31 @ 19:00

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby Scraphoarder » 2017-4-04 @ 17:39

Exciting to see someone having success with Win98 on PCI-E systems. Have a HP Compaq nx8220 laptop that i am experimenting with and have installed the Intel chipset drivers (915/ich6 on this), audio, etc, but came to a halt. I struggle to get drivers for the onboard ATI Mobility Radeon x600 thats PCI-E. Same problem with the Broadcom NetExtreme gigabit ethernet, but thats not important. I think modifying the inf files could do the trick, but dont know where to start.

Reading someone says that would never be sucsessfull to get a PCI-E device to work properly in Windows 98, but with chipset drivers in place shouldnt it work? Just out of couriosity i tried to update all drivers under the System Devices that didnt have Intel ich6 driver to also use the ich6 driver instead of MS genetic driver. No problem with that, but if that have any parctical effect i dont know.
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-4-04 @ 18:23

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby truemaster » 2017-5-03 @ 16:23

hello after a long of time having 2 pcs one for everyday work and one retro pc for old games mainly dos. i decide (for fun first) to try and unify the things one pc for them all and i did it for most things
mobo gigabyte z97m d3h (intel 9 series chipset)
ram ddr3 8gb 2x4 1600mhz with xmp
gpu msi 750ti ocv1 gddr5 2gb
cpu 15 4690 3.5
for me the ide compatibility didnt work the installation cd fails to detect cdrom drive. so i copy the cd files in the root of my secondary sata hdd and i use the cd for getting dos commands only. i create the windows folder put in there the himemx.exe from freedos rename it to himem.exe and create a config.sys with this command device=c:\windows\himem.exe /max=393216 and i successful install win98se without any errors!!!. i also needed to run setup with the /p i parameter in order to have all my devices listed in device manager, without the /p i parameter i coudnt see usb and pci devices (but can be install manually in the add hardware wizard) for sound card, i have a soundblaster live ct4830 using the wdm driver the sound is working ok. for vga there are no drivers for that card so only the universal vbe just to have some more resolution on desktop. in the autoexec.bat this command c:\drv\nolfb.com (for dos games not to have flickering screen) and a patch that let me access safe mode. the built is working ok i can have my wired xbox360 controller working too, and all my dos games working perfect. now is there any way for this gpu to work? even as 128mb 6000 series card??
the only issue but thank god is small and i found solution instantly is that any time i click the command.com or an exe of a dos game, the command.com or the dos game make my computer freeze after a while it beep the computer (one beep) and then the command.com or the dos game starts without further problems. the only solution found is to create a shortcut and select run in full screen in this case the dos game of the command.com starts instantly. hope this helps anyone that intends to install win98se on newer hardware
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-5-03 @ 18:36

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby truemaster » 2017-5-03 @ 18:53

yeah youre right. its too unsupported hardware near as miracle that it works. but if someone needs a native dos enviroment this is a good solution. my first attempt was to install ms-dos but the sb16 emulation driver didnt like my mobo. (it expects different communication between sb and mobo) so this is the solution for dos gaming with sound on such hardware. even if it is a little absolute - incompatible in some terms
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-5-03 @ 19:32

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby truemaster » 2017-5-04 @ 18:23

i need to ask you something. my mobo have 2 pcie slots, in the bios there is an option to enable the one or the other slot. if i put a win98 compatible card will the card work ok without the chipset drivers? since there are not official or unofficial for intel 9 series chipset
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-5-04 @ 19:50

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby truemaster » 2017-5-05 @ 12:00

when i have in my hands a win98se compatible video card i will gladly report how it works. so there are intel 9 series chipset for 98?? i cant find them. its a chipset that been made in 2013 are you sure there are for 98 as well
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby Carlos S. M. » 2017-5-05 @ 12:18

kithylin wrote:
Scraphoarder wrote:Exciting to see someone having success with Win98 on PCI-E systems. Have a HP Compaq nx8220 laptop that i am experimenting with and have installed the Intel chipset drivers (915/ich6 on this), audio, etc, but came to a halt. I struggle to get drivers for the onboard ATI Mobility Radeon x600 thats PCI-E. Same problem with the Broadcom NetExtreme gigabit ethernet, but thats not important. I think modifying the inf files could do the trick, but dont know where to start.

Reading someone says that would never be sucsessfull to get a PCI-E device to work properly in Windows 98, but with chipset drivers in place shouldnt it work? Just out of couriosity i tried to update all drivers under the System Devices that didnt have Intel ich6 driver to also use the ich6 driver instead of MS genetic driver. No problem with that, but if that have any parctical effect i dont know.


I believe the x#### video cards from AMD are too new to work in windows 98 is the problem, there were never any official amd drivers for that family of cards. The last AMD GPU's officially supported in Win98 are the ATI 6000 series, like the 6800 Pro, etc. Also on nvidia side the only officially supported gpu's are the nvidia 6000 series, like the 6800 ultra. So the system probably works fine, your gpu is just too new.


You mean Radeon 9000 series?

I think at some point the Radeon x300-600 series might be able to work in Windows 9x due to begin very close with the Radeon 9600

Radeon x300-x600 were just rebrands of the Radeon 9600 cards in PCI-E, RV370/380 are just PCI-E versions of RV350/360
So, on desktop:
x300/x300LE = Radeon 9600
x300 SE = Radeon 9600 SE
x550 = Radeon 9600 Pro w/ mem underclock (at least on the 128 bit model)
x600 Pro = Radeon 9600 Pro
x600 XT = Radeon 9600 XT

Mobile:
Mobility x300 = none, closet is Mobility Radeon 9600, with Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro clocks and 64 bit bus
Mobility x600 = none, most likely an underclocked Mobility Radeon 9700
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-5-05 @ 18:47

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby Carlos S. M. » 2017-5-05 @ 20:23

kithylin wrote:
Carlos S. M. wrote:You mean Radeon 9000 series?

I think at some point the Radeon x300-600 series might be able to work in Windows 9x due to begin very close with the Radeon 9600

Radeon x300-x600 were just rebrands of the Radeon 9600 cards in PCI-E, RV370/380 are just PCI-E versions of RV350/360
So, on desktop:
x300/x300LE = Radeon 9600
x300 SE = Radeon 9600 SE
x550 = Radeon 9600 Pro w/ mem underclock (at least on the 128 bit model)
x600 Pro = Radeon 9600 Pro
x600 XT = Radeon 9600 XT

Mobile:
Mobility x300 = none, closet is Mobility Radeon 9600, with Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro clocks and 64 bit bus
Mobility x600 = none, most likely an underclocked Mobility Radeon 9700


According to wikipedia, the AGP 9000 series are technically a different core. RV350 (shivah), RV360, and the PCI-E cards are RV370 (hari), and RV380 (vishnu). And none of the PCI-E cards ever had inf entries for windows 9x drivers. So.. you're welcome to try and manually edit the inf files and hack it in. No guarantees anything will ever work though.... if you get it working.. report back here please and let us know? And specifically outline how you did it.


well, the PCI-E cards are still based on the same RV3xx cores, except the only difference is the bus, the main difference acording to wikipedia is the bus changed from AGP to PCI-E (Native, no bridges), both the PCI-E and AGP versions have the same pipeline counts, same fillrates at the same clock, there are other differences, like the RV370 core is a dieshurnk to 110 nm, when the RV380 is still on 130 nm, unlike the x700 and x800 series. the x300-600 series are pretty much derivated form the R300 series
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-5-06 @ 01:59

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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby truemaster » 2017-5-11 @ 21:38

success win 98se on intel 9 series chipset (2014 motherboard)
mobo: z97m-d3h
ram: 8gb ddr3
cpu i5 4690 3.5 ghz
primary gpu: geforce 750ti (for win 10 use)
secondery gpu: 6800 gt (for win98) comming soon
ssd 240 gb (win 10)
seagate sata 1 hdd 500 gb (with 20 gb partition for win98se)
sound card sblive ct 4830 for both my win10 win98
step 1 prepare the hdd. create a 20 gb partition. primary and active and format it as fat32 create a folder and name it WINDOWS a folder named win and a new text and rename it as CONFIG.SYS and add the following line "DEVICEHIGH=C:\windows\himem.exe /max=???? /numhandles=64 /verbose" replace the ??? with a ram amount that is more than 16 mb and no more than 512 mb.step 2 go to freedos site and download the himemx.exe rename it as himem.exe and place it in the windows folder you create in your hdd.(i will tell ya later why rename it and put it there and nowhere else) copy all the files from win98 cd to the win folder you create in your hdd
step 3 go into the bios make your dvd drive as the first boot device and your drive you gona install win98se as second, dont change your sata controller as ide or raid leave it as ahci (for motherboard like mine at least) the ide or raid will make the windows 98 freeze at some point. save your bios configure. and very important dont use a mouse connected in any usb port, but use a usb to ps/2 converter and connect it in the back. restart your pc now. step 4 boot from cd and select instalation without cd rom support a dos command will appear then type cd c:\win then c: and last setup /is the installation will start and will go smoothly. step 5 your are in win98 desktop time for drivers. go there windows98.xf.cz/ and download the latest chipset drivers (if you have a 9series chipset motherboard like mine because there are not any official ones for that mobo) they require manual installation the components to update with the chipset drivers are the system devices (the ones with the monitor icon in your device manager) update them all then restart. now go to control panel and click the add new hardware select manual and go to system devices and add a pci port new devices will appear some of them need the chipset drivers 2 download the nusb3.6 (older version dont workfor this mobo) http://www.mediafire.com/file/ylqlc2qpk ... usb36e.exe now you can have a usb mouse but some times the driver fail to work ok so in order to do not hard reset always have your mouse in the ps/2 port. install unofficial service pack (optional) and your sound card drivers dont know how many from the win98 era are ok with todays mobos but live its working. updates regarding my setup will come when i have a win98 compatible gpu. but for now i really enjoy my dos games without a problem. even dosbox works great for games that dont like much ram or fast cpus. step 6 and last for now time to fix safe mode the safe mode is ignoring both autoexec.bat and config.sys it takes the default values stored in io.sys, io.sys cant edited without a hexeditor thank god ther is a patch that will simply change the default loading of c:\windows\himem.sys with c:\windows\himem.exe (thats why we needed to rename the himemx.exe to himem.exe and put it in windows folder). the patch called xRayeR's w98iopat.exe (cant find a link now) to install it you need to run it from save mode command prompt only. and voila safe mode is working. i also dig to the unofficial ram patches and multicore support, one word DONT USE THEM
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Re: How to Successfully use Windows 98 on PCI-Express Systems

Postby kithylin » 2017-5-11 @ 21:45

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