Which XP?

Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

Re: Which XP?

Postby Jo22 » 2017-2-07 @ 12:38

Is that Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs we do talk about ?

If so, yes, I think I heard about it many years ago already.
But I had no idea what to make of it.. :confused:

I always thought it was just another -uhm- restricted version of Windows,
just like Windows XP Starter Edition, in which you could run only three programs at once.

Anyway, WinFLP's wiki doesn't look all that bad. :)
It also hints that it works okay for Thin Clients, whatever that means..
I mean, could any OS do worse than the #1 Thin Client OS, Win CE ? ;-)
- That OS was *very* limited for desktop use, with only half of its stuff actually working as expected.

And I do also wonder how WinFLP compares to Windows XP Embedded or MicroXP (described here):
Both are lightweight and Embedded also supports EWF, which is nice for flash media.
Plus, they do also have the compatibility tab, which is said missing from WinFLP.

And then there's still XP Pro with either SP1 or SP2. I remember running the early version (no SP or SP1 ?)
on a hardware below the minimum requirements for WinFLP (Pentium MMX 166, 64MB RAM, ~2GB SCSI drive).
Performance wasn't pretty, but worked well enough to run Snes9X and other emulators at reasonable speed.
So I wonder if it isn't better to run an older, but then complete OS instead of a current, but lean version.
(Security issues aside - for online play, a more secure/modern OS is preferable)

Oh well, sorry, I don't mean to sound so negative.. :sweatdrop:
I'm just not used to stripped-down versions. Guess they do always remind me of Win CE.. :sweatdrop:

Here's a positive review of WinFLP (lots of pictures!):
https://vmjunkie.wordpress.com/2009/03/ ... re-part-1/
https://vmjunkie.wordpress.com/2009/04/ ... re-part-2/
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Re: Which XP?

Postby dr_st » 2017-2-07 @ 14:33

emosun wrote:WFFLP is the best xp. I'm actually surprised nobody here usually ever recommends it or even uses it. Most people here recomennd regular store bought versions.
Best for what? For running on older hardware? Probably. For being useful on a modern PC? Probably not.
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Tommaso72 » 2017-2-09 @ 14:04

jarreboum wrote:
PhilsComputerLab wrote:Some games and software will not install however and check for SP2 for example.


That's interesting. Do you have any examples? Does it also happen for SP3?


Doom 3 will not install without sp2. This was an install from original disk.

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Re: Which XP?

Postby leileilol » 2017-2-09 @ 22:22

Tommaso72 wrote:Doom 3 will not install without sp2.

You sure about that? SP2 came out 20 DAYS AFTER Doom 3.
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Tommaso72 » 2017-2-10 @ 03:43

Yes, just did it a few weeks ago on a clean install. I tried and it said I needed service pack 2 and then terminated. I installed service pack 2 and it installed fine.

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Re: Which XP?

Postby notsofossil » 2017-2-10 @ 07:45

Jo22 wrote:Is that Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs we do talk about ?

[snip]


I checked your linked resources, the one issue with WinFLP that bothers me is it's only available (or was) to subscribers of the Microsoft Software Assurance program. How exactly does one obtain a legal copy of WinFLP? I don't like the idea of using a pirated OS if you don't have to. Almost every laptop I own has a perfectly usable Windows XP SP2 OEM product key.

Also, am I the only one who noticed the Compatibility function for programs has been stripped out of WinFLP? That's a deal breaker for me. Part of what made XP so great was its surprisingly good legacy support (at least, compared to Windows 2000).
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Re: Which XP?

Postby DosFreak » 2017-2-10 @ 10:34

Windows 2000 and XP were roughly equally compatible. I've tested 3,000+ games on it so I'd know.

Only thing that makes XP pull ahead is games specifically only supporting XP and above which requires API wrappers or recoded Windows files to get those games to work. I g
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Re: Which XP?

Postby jade_angel » 2017-2-10 @ 17:35

Out of curiosity on that point, can anyone think of any games that work correctly on XP, but *not* on 2000 or Win7? The whole "obtaining legit WinXP" thing has held me up some, too. I have a legit copy of Win2k and a legit copy of Win7 (and I think I actually have a legit copy of Vista somewhere, but Vista sucks hosewater), but not for XP anymore.
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-10 @ 21:09

jade_angel wrote:Out of curiosity on that point, can anyone think of any games that work correctly on XP, but *not* on 2000 or Win7? The whole "obtaining legit WinXP" thing has held me up some, too. I have a legit copy of Win2k and a legit copy of Win7 (and I think I actually have a legit copy of Vista somewhere, but Vista sucks hosewater), but not for XP anymore.

Didn't FarCry have some issue with water reflections or something when used on a Windows OS post XP? I'm pretty sure Phil could tell more about it.
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Re: Which XP?

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-2-10 @ 21:33

Yea Far Cry, the land mass reflections. And other games have issues as well, but might not affect anyone, so everyone should do their own tests.

The bottom line for me is that I don't have much time, and while you can fix many games to run under 7 and newer, I don't have the time so I just go with a XP machine. And I also like the EAX / CMSS-3D support, of course there is ALChemy, but again I prefer things to just work.
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-10 @ 21:50

PhilsComputerLab wrote:The bottom line for me is that I don't have much time, and while you can fix many games to run under 7 and newer, I don't have the time so I just go with a XP machine. And I also like the EAX / CMSS-3D support, of course there is ALChemy, but again I prefer things to just work.

This is exactly my thought :)

I do try to fiddle around a bit when trying to make games work on certain rigs and certain OS's, but sometimes it's just not worth the time and I just try it on another rig and be done with it.
Same with hardware. If I can't get 2 non-defective components to work together, I'll just swap components a bit till I am left with only matching stuff :P
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Re: Which XP?

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-2-10 @ 21:58

Yea that's it :)

And for most of us, it's not that we didn't try. A lot of us are unique individuals and as odd as it seems, I can usually build a XP machine, at least on my test bench, quicker than sitting down and figurung out a compatibility issue with some old game. And have a better time doing so.
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Jo22 » 2017-2-10 @ 22:36

And let's don't forget DirectMusic support..
On XP, you can still use SofthSynths like Virtual Sound Canvas or S-YXG50. :)
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Re: Which XP?

Postby leileilol » 2017-2-10 @ 22:54

Tommaso72 wrote:Yes, just did it a few weeks ago on a clean install. I tried and it said I needed service pack 2 and then terminated. I installed service pack 2 and it installed fine.

Tommaso

FWIW I've ran Doom3 under a *stock* Windows 2000 no problem before (no DirectX update either)
by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
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Re: Which XP?

Postby jade_angel » 2017-2-10 @ 23:24

Different installer version, maybe?
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Re: Which XP?

Postby jarreboum » 2017-2-11 @ 01:43

PhilsComputerLab wrote:Yea that's it :)

And for most of us, it's not that we didn't try. A lot of us are unique individuals and as odd as it seems, I can usually build a XP machine, at least on my test bench, quicker than sitting down and figurung out a compatibility issue with some old game. And have a better time doing so.


And here I am, planning an XP machine and buying it piece after piece, for the last six months now...
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Tetrium » 2017-2-11 @ 04:50

jarreboum wrote:
PhilsComputerLab wrote:Yea that's it :)

And for most of us, it's not that we didn't try. A lot of us are unique individuals and as odd as it seems, I can usually build a XP machine, at least on my test bench, quicker than sitting down and figurung out a compatibility issue with some old game. And have a better time doing so.


And here I am, planning an XP machine and buying it piece after piece, for the last six months now...

What are the specs of the machine you have planned?

I started out by basically just throwing together whatever I had available and installing Windows on that and only started targeting more specific parts after I had gained some more experience (and it was a bit more expensive as I got more picky).

And the thing with retro computing is also that once you get started, you'll start wanting more parts so you can mess around a bit and have spare parts in case of failure. Buying in bulk is also cheaper in the end when looking at how much stuff you gain.

And if your living quarters ever starts getting messy, we even have a couple threads that will help you deal with all the clutter! :D
There's some real pro's around here :cool:

So if you ever happen to have any questions, feel free to ask :) Let us be your hardware angels guiding you on your way to your own little piece of digital heaven :)
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Re: Which XP?

Postby notsofossil » 2017-2-11 @ 07:00

jade_angel wrote:Out of curiosity on that point, can anyone think of any games that work correctly on XP, but *not* on 2000 or Win7? The whole "obtaining legit WinXP" thing has held me up some, too. I have a legit copy of Win2k and a legit copy of Win7 (and I think I actually have a legit copy of Vista somewhere, but Vista sucks hosewater), but not for XP anymore.


My concern with "legit XP" is when it comes to Windows OSes with product activation, I'd prefer to have it be legally activated. What I love about XP SP2 is the product keys never seem to expire or conflict.
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Re: Which XP?

Postby jarreboum » 2017-2-11 @ 10:54

Tetrium wrote:So if you ever happen to have any questions, feel free to ask :) Let us be your hardware angels guiding you on your way to your own little piece of digital heaven :)


Haha thanks, it's mostly because I'm a perfectionist though ;) It started when I decided to refurbish my old mid-00s computer and give it new old parts: giving it the better processor for its socket, getting a new case, then a new motherboard that can fit in... In the end I'll be able to rebuild my old computer with all the spare parts left out lol. My main struggle is fitting everything together, new coolers aren't designed for old junk and my tiny case is cramped. I'm getting there though!
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Re: Which XP?

Postby Azarien » 2017-2-11 @ 16:19

WinFLP was meant to do one thing: be a client OS for Remote Desktop.
Most of XP's standard services are removed or disabled by default.
It doesn't even have Paint or Calc (or both, don't remember exactly) and it's missing joy.cpl, among other things.

And when you reenable missing but useful services you get close to Home or Pro in terms of memory usage, which makes FLP sort of pointless on a home PC.

It only makes sense if all you have is 64 or 128 MB of RAM.
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