VOGONS


First post, by Elia1995

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Hello, I'm struggling on how I could install Windows 95 or 98 (whatever of the two) on the "D" partition of the hardisk instead of "C".

I try to explain better: I installed MS-DOS 6.22 on that hardisk and it currently is inside the "C" partition, I also installed Windows 3.11 and when I do the "win" command it starts Windows 3.11 (logically), when I boot Windows 95/98 installation, it automatically picks the C drive instead of the second "D" partition even if I set it as primary (but I can't from fdisk: I get this error: "Unable to read hard drive" when I try to run fdisk from DOS).

The dual boot won't be a big problem, I can install OS/2's boot manager from my OS/2 Warp 4 disk.

First of all, I need to figure out how I can format "D" since fdisk isn't working and then we must figure out how to install Windows 95 or 98 in "D" and don't make conflicts when I use the "win" command in DOS to run 3.11.

17796859_10212643745037369_8776126758800782434_n.jpg?oh=57bc2a97993a5ec28cfb508f9910e414&oe=595835AB

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 1 of 16, by gdjacobs

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Use a boot manager that supports cloaking partitions.

I like this one.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/

Last edited by gdjacobs on 2017-04-08, 12:33. Edited 1 time in total.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 2 of 16, by Zup

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1. Install DOS.
2. Use a Linux boot disk and run disk.
3. Use p and note the partition type.
4. Use t and change the partition type to 82.
5. Remove the active flag from partition.
6. Use w to write partition table.
7. Reboot and install Windows (it won't try to use partition 1).
8. Use the Linux boot disk, and restore partition type to partition 1.
9. Install your boot manager.

When you boot from DOS, it will be in C: and run Windows. 3.1. DOS won't be able to see the Windows partition (unless installed on FAT16 partition).

When you boot from Windows 9x it should appear as C:. DOS partition should appear as D: or E: (depending on the drive letter used by your CD-ROM).

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 3 of 16, by Elia1995

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Do I have to change the partition typo to 82 for WHICH partition ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 4 of 16, by gdjacobs

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There should only be one partition (Partition 1). If there's only one choice, fdisk won't prompt you.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 5 of 16, by clueless1

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Depending on your motherboard, you could also cheat and install each OS on its own hard drive, then choose the boot drive from the BIOS "choose boot option" (usually F9 or F11).

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OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
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Reply 6 of 16, by Elia1995

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That motherboard doesn't have a boot menu for different hard drives, unfortunately 🙁

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 7 of 16, by Elia1995

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Zup wrote:
1. Install DOS. 2. Use a Linux boot disk and run disk. 3. Use p and note the partition type. 4. Use t and change the partition t […]
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1. Install DOS.
2. Use a Linux boot disk and run disk.
3. Use p and note the partition type.
4. Use t and change the partition type to 82.
5. Remove the active flag from partition.
6. Use w to write partition table.
7. Reboot and install Windows (it won't try to use partition 1).
8. Use the Linux boot disk, and restore partition type to partition 1.
9. Install your boot manager.

When you boot from DOS, it will be in C: and run Windows. 3.1. DOS won't be able to see the Windows partition (unless installed on FAT16 partition).

When you boot from Windows 9x it should appear as C:. DOS partition should appear as D: or E: (depending on the drive letter used by your CD-ROM).

Which Linux would you suggest ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 8 of 16, by Sammy

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For me XFDISK works here.

It has also a Bootmanger build in.

Step1: I create a 2GB FAT16 Partition for Dos/Win3.11
Step2: then a 2 GB Fat16 Data Partition (seen from Dos/Win3.11 and Win95)
Step3: and the Rest of the HDD is for a 5 GB Win95 Partion.

HDD has around 9 GB size.

XFDisk bootmanager switches between the Partitions.
When Dos/Win3.11 is active then Win95 is hidden.
And when Win95 is active then Dos/3.11 is hidden.

If you have to move files between the 2 OS then copy it to D: , start the other OS and copy it from D:

If you have free space on your hdd (no partition) then you can begin with Step2.

Reply 9 of 16, by dr.zeissler

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OS2/Boot Manager needs it's own primary partition! XFDISK does work, but then OS/2 MUST be in the first 2GB otherweise XFDISK cannot start it and
the OS/2 Bootmanager is needed, which makes no sense to me. I read that OS/2 can be installed from Disk, like Win9x too, so there is my advice.

XFDISK: (only one HDD)
1GB primary NTFS OS/2
1GB primary FAT16 Dos6x
6GB primary FAT32 Win9x
2GB logical Fat16 Dosdata
xGB logical Fat32 Windata

The logical drives should have a setup-folder with the os within.
For OS/2 there must be newer HDD drivers so it recognizes large drives.

Make the partitions. deactive all primary partitions except the one to install to.
After installing MSDOS start XFDSIK deactivate Dos and activate Win9x, install Win9x.
After that activate OS/2 and try to install it. No OS/2 Bootmanager should be needed.

If you are done with all os-installation start XFDISK (perhaps from a bootabale dosfloppy)
and install the Bootmanager. It only uses the first sectors of the HDD so no installed OS is
touched. After a reboot all OS are startable. Win9x mounts the primary Dos-partition at
the end of the driveletters, but this should be no Problem. Every OS has it's own Data
partition to be used. For Win9x I make backups with fat32cp to the data partitions.
It's very fast and the installed Win9x is reinstalled in only 1-2 minutes. That's nice 😀

Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 10 of 16, by Elia1995

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Sammy wrote:
For me XFDISK works here. […]
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For me XFDISK works here.

It has also a Bootmanger build in.

Step1: I create a 2GB FAT16 Partition for Dos/Win3.11
Step2: then a 2 GB Fat16 Data Partition (seen from Dos/Win3.11 and Win95)
Step3: and the Rest of the HDD is for a 5 GB Win95 Partion.

HDD has around 9 GB size.

XFDisk bootmanager switches between the Partitions.
When Dos/Win3.11 is active then Win95 is hidden.
And when Win95 is active then Dos/3.11 is hidden.

If you have to move files between the 2 OS then copy it to D: , start the other OS and copy it from D:

If you have free space on your hdd (no partition) then you can begin with Step2.

Currently, as you could see from the photo in the OP, I only have one partition with DOS/Win 3.11 and another partition which is UNFORMATTED.

I can't use fdisk at all, it always gives me a read error and never starts, how does this XFdisk work ? Should I download it, put it in a floppy and copy it in the dos pc ?

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 12 of 16, by Elia1995

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I partitioned them like that with XFdisk:

http://i.imgur.com/HkIO5rv.jpg (it's very big if I try to [IMG] it for some reason)

Did I mess it up ? I never used this manager and it was a bit confusing.
Now the PC hangs at "found boot on IDE-0... ok"

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard

Reply 13 of 16, by Sammy

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Is is okay do a clean install and lost all tha date that ist currently on HDD?

You can also backup DOS win3.1 and restore ist later after installed Dos 6.22.

I will post pictures of my Partition-Table later.

Reply 15 of 16, by jesolo

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If I can perhaps offer an alternative solution by asking the following question: Is there any particular reason why you would want to install both DOS 6.22 & Windows 9x on the same PC?
Why not just install Windows 9x and set up a start up (boot) menu configuration on your PC? That way, you can easily boot straight into DOS 7.0 (or 7.1 from Windows 95B onwards) if you do wish to do so.
Refer this post: How to create a boot (start up) menu under Windows 9x/ME

Back in the day, I also used to use OS/2 Warp 3's Boot Manager to dual boot between DOS 6.22 & Windows 95 (until I realised it was much easier to use the above mentioned solution as there was actually no reason for me to have both DOS 6.22 & Windows 9x on the same system).

However, if you do want to use OS/2's Boot Manager, then dr.zeissler is correct that you need to install Boot Manager in its own partition (however, Boot Manager itself only requires about a 1MB partition).
Excerpt taken from my OS2 Warp Connect's User Guide:
The following is a brief list of the steps you follow to set up your hard disk for multiple operating systems (using OS/2's FDISK):

  • You install the Boot Manager in its own partition (usually 1MB in size).
  • You then create partitions for any operating systems (including OS/2 you are going to install).
  • Next, you install the other operating systems in the partitions you created for them (if you want OS/2 to work with DOS and Windows, you must install DOS and Windows first. Otherwise, most operating systems can be installed after installing OS/2).
  • Finally, you install the OS/2 operating system.

Obviously, if you do not wish to install OS/2, then you just skip those steps.
Note: If a partition is going to contain an operating system (like DOS or Windows 9x), the partition (aka the primary partition) must be within the first 1024 cylinders.

Reply 16 of 16, by Elia1995

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I successfully installed Windows 95 on the second partition.

I deleted the "Boot Manager" partition that OS/2 created back then and I'm using XFdisk as boot manager.
Then I added an entry for MS-DOS 6.22 for the Partition 1 and Windows 95 for the partition 2.
I then set the fresh Partition 2 (which was going to be Windows' one) as Active and the DOS' one as Hidden
I then rebooted with the Windows 95 boot disk and formatted C: (which was the "new" C: that is the thing that confused me a lot, but now thanks to you guys and XFdisk I finally figured it out how those drive letters work)
and I installed Windows 95 from the CD (drive "R:") with setup.exe /is
During the installation I didn't set XFdisk's boot manager yet, so the PC could restart freely to Windows directly.
When I finished, I restarted with my UBCD 5, launched XFdisk again and made the boot manager.

Now when I turn on the PC, the boot manager appears with both MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 95 partitions, I tried both of them and they work fine, no conflicts at all.
I then created a THIRD partition, but this time a "Logical" one, not Primary, that would serve as a "sharing" partition between the 2 systems, since they can't see each other because one becomes hidden when the other is set active by the boot manager.
Everything works fine, now I'm very tired and I'm going to sleep (it's 00:22 here now), later today I'll install the drivers and other stuff.

Replying to who asked me why I want both DOS and Windows 9x on the same PC: it's very simple.
I don't just want DOS and Windows 9x, but more "Windows 3.11" and Windows 9x, and I need a dual boot with DOS 6.22 (the most stable DOS version ever) and Windows 9x in order to achieve that without conflicts.
But I actually want PURE DOS as well, some DOS games might fail under Windows 9x and in that case I'll launch them from native DOS.

I haven't used 95 as much as 98 during my childhood, so it's some kind of an "experience" for me and I couldn't make it to work on VMWare or DOSBox.

Currently assembled vintage computers I own: 11

Most important ones:
A "modded" Olivetti M4 434 S (currently broken).
An Epson El Plus 386DX running MS-DOS 6.22 (currently broken).
Celeron Coppermine 1.10GHz on an M754LMRTP motherboard