VOGONS


First post, by thepirategamerboy12

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So, basically, I accidentally screwed up my MS-DOS Mode CONFIG and AUTOEXEC because I tried to make a change in EDIT and didn't realize that was stupid and it killed it. I go to PhilsComputerLab's website and see he replaced it with the Super Easy MS-DOS Mode PIF, so I download that and put it on my Windows 95 desktop. The only changes I made to it was removing the Turtle Beach line in AUTOEXEC and I of course installed my own sound card drivers. The issue is that while Expanded Memory + Mouse + CD-ROM is perfectly fine, Extended Memory + Mouse + CD-ROM gives me very little conventional memory for some reason. I can't run many games at all, like Duke Nukem II or even Commander Keen IV, because they all give out of memory errors. This wasn't an issue until now, so any help would be very appreciated. Thanks.

------------------------------------
Available Memory:
Expanded + Mouse + CD-ROM:
565KB

Extended + Mouse + CD-ROM:
543KB
------------------------------------
CONFIG:
[COMMON]
DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO
FILES=40
BUFFERS=40
LASTDRIVE=H

[menu]
menuitem=EMC, Expanded memory + Mouse + CD-ROM
menuitem=XMC, Extended memory + Mouse + CD-ROM
menuitem=CMC, Conventional Memory only + Mouse + CD-ROM
menuitem=EM, Expanded memory + Mouse
menuitem=XM, Extended memory + Mouse
menuitem=CM, Conventional memory only + Mouse
menuitem=E, Expanded memory
menuitem=X, Extended memory
menuitem=C, Conventional memory only

menudefault=EMC,10

[EMC]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[XMC]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[CMC]
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

[EM]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM

[XM]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF

[CM]

[E]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM

[X]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF

[C]
------------------------------------
AUTOEXEC
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
@ECHO OFF
SET SOUND16=C:\OPTI930
C:\OPTI930\sndinit /b
@ECHO OFF
GoTo %config%
:EMC
:XMC
:CMC
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:OPTICAL
:EM
:XM
:CM
LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R2
:E
:X
:C
------------------------------------

Reply 2 of 12, by thepirategamerboy12

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gdjacobs wrote:

Run mem /c/p to find out what's occupying your conventional memory.

Alright, here are the results:

Expanded + Mouse + CD-ROM:

IMG_5306.JPG
Filename
IMG_5306.JPG
File size
155.25 KiB
Views
1660 views
File comment
Expanded
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Extended + Mouse + CD-ROM:

IMG_5304.JPG
Filename
IMG_5304.JPG
File size
152.61 KiB
Views
1660 views
File comment
Extended
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 4 of 12, by clueless1

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Do you have five hdd partitions? If you lower your lastdrive= line, you can save a wee bit of memory. Similarly, you can reduce your files and buffers to save a bit of RAM. Some games require more, some less. 40 is a nice safe high number, but you might be able to get away with going as low as 25. Just test your games and bump them up as needed.

Also, move your DOS=HIGH,UMB line out of the common section and into each section below (not into the Conventional sections, obviously). It should be right after the HIMEM.SYS line. I'm not sure when it's in the common section if it gets processed in the correct order.

Finally, you can run memmaker to try and find some contiguous blocks of upper memory to fit your drivers in, or try including some offlimits memory regions to increase available memory. Try adding I=E000-EFFF to your EMM386 line. Memmaker might also find some other areas that are potentially safe to include.

edit: I=B000-B7FF is another region you can try (area reserved for monochrome monitors).

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 5 of 12, by thepirategamerboy12

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So, I tried loading in EMM386 with NOEMS, used monochrome memory, and most of the other things clueless1 told me to, and while it did free up a crap-ton of memory, games like Comanche which require Extended Memory completely refuse to start because of EMM386 giving a critical error and saying to reset, and I seem to get other weird instability. This all really sucks because before I accidentally corrupted my original setup, everything except games that used a lot more than usual conventional memory like Darkseed Floppy or Aces of the Pacific were working they way I wanted with the Extended + Mouse + CD-ROM mode... I don't really get why this changed.

Reply 6 of 12, by clueless1

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Hmm. It seems like games that require XMS typically don't require a lot of conventional memory. Do the games that are giving you troubles require the CD? Maybe you can run them on the XMS without CD option?

Did moving the DOS=HIGH,UMB line help free up conventional memory on your XMS option? It should look like:
[XMC]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 7 of 12, by thepirategamerboy12

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Actually, I think I've come up with a solution. I've adjusted the FILES and BUFFERS for every menu option and that seems to be working out so far. Though I guess I still need to do some more slight tweaks because my sound card config program doesn't seem to start in Extended + Mouse + CD-ROM but otherwise it all seems okay from what I've tried.

Reply 8 of 12, by gdjacobs

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Comanche requires that EMM386 be disabled. This is where different memory configuration options can be handy.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 9 of 12, by thepirategamerboy12

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Okay, now what the fuck... In all modes Winter Challenge tells me to "disable my debugger" and Monkey Island 1 gives me a runtime error. I've literally never had any issues with games like these until now. I'm sorry that I've been asking for a lot of help on this forum, but fucking hell this is pissing me off. I wish I had a backup of my shortcut before it got screwed. I love DOS and Windows 9x, but I do get pretty pissed at stupid shit like this.

EDIT: Actually, this was something unrelated that I managed to fix.

Last edited by thepirategamerboy12 on 2017-07-29, 23:29. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 10 of 12, by gdjacobs

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In Winter Challenge, try entering, then exiting setup before going to training or tournament.

Monkey Island is speed sensitive. Please try disabling your L1 and L2 caches to run MI1.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 11 of 12, by thepirategamerboy12

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gdjacobs wrote:

In Winter Challenge, try entering, then exiting setup before going to training or tournament.

Monkey Island is speed sensitive. Please try disabling your L1 and L2 caches to run MI1.

Thing is, I've never had to disable cache to run MI1 before... Again, sorry for asking for help a lot more recently. I hope I'm not too annoying or anything.

I'm in a way surprised a lot of people would go to help me with stuff like this at all when they don't gain anything from it. I'm very thankful for anything I get from you guys.

Reply 12 of 12, by clueless1

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thepirategamerboy12 wrote:

Actually, I think I've come up with a solution. I've adjusted the FILES and BUFFERS for every menu option and that seems to be working out so far. Though I guess I still need to do some more slight tweaks because my sound card config program doesn't seem to start in Extended + Mouse + CD-ROM but otherwise it all seems okay from what I've tried.

At some point in the past I ended up moving everything out of the COMMON section. It gives more flexibility. The conventional memory sections do not need DOS=HIGH,UMB; LASTDRIVE= can be one letter less on the sections that do not load the CD; and FILES/BUFFERS can vary more flexibly.

Also, I just took a peek at my CONFIG.SYS, and I actually have DOS=HIGH,UMB at the top of each section, above FILES, BUFFERS, LASTDRIVE, and HIMEM.SYS. Worth a shot. Also, I just noticed on my XMS with mouse and CD section, I have 584KB free. I'll see if I can paste that in in an edit for you to see.

edit: I think our differences are related to me using pure DOS 6.22 vs your Win9x MS-DOS mode. But here's my results for XMS with CD and mouse:

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
MSDOS 15,325 (15K) 15,325 (15K) 0 (0K)
HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K)
VIDECDD 5,024 (5K) 5,024 (5K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 2,992 (3K) 2,992 (3K) 0 (0K)
MSCDEX 27,952 (27K) 27,952 (27K) 0 (0K)
CTMOUSE 3,328 (3K) 3,328 (3K) 0 (0K)
Free 598,384 (584K) 598,384 (584K) 0 (0K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Conventional 654,336 55,952 598,384
Upper 0 0 0
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 32,505,856 65,536 32,440,320
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Total memory 33,160,192 121,488 33,038,704

Press any key to continue . . .^C

I noticed that if I REM out my HIMEM.SYS line, I get similar results to you. MSDOS USES 67KB rather than 15KB and COMMAND uses 5KB rather than 3KB. I end up with 531KB free. According to your screenshot, HIMEM.SYS is loading, but it doesn't seem to be reducing the amount of conventional memory that MSDOS AND COMMAND use. Maybe try some troubleshooting with MSD.EXE in the memory section. Also try REMming out HIMEM.SYS on your XMS with CD/mouse section section. See if MSDOS uses more than 36KB and COMMAND.COM uses more than 10KB. If they do, then you know that HIMEM.SYS is working.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks