Try disabling CuteMouse. You're using a PS/2 keyboard?

Rawit wrote:

Try disabling CuteMouse. You're using a PS/2 keyboard?

Yeah ps/2, this is a 440bx chipset pentium 3 build. I'll see what happens with SPG without cutemouse in a moment.

I disabled cutemouse in dos mode and it still happens. If I hit F1 on any DOS app in windows 98 it crashes for trying to execute an invalid instruction. This is weird 😒

Replace the 8042 keyboard controller on the mainboard.

derSammler wrote:

Replace the 8042 keyboard controller on the mainboard.

I've installed win xp to see how that does. Can somebody verify whether or not F1 at the desktop is supposed to bring up the help center?

edit: I tested in a virtual machine and F1 alone does bring up the help window. No issues in the command prompt in XP either. F1 does not crash 16 bit applications like it was in Win 98 SE either. It has to be something with the 98 installation. I'll try a DOS boot disk and see what happens.

Sigh. If I boot to DOS 6.22 the f1 key crashes it entirely, I also noticed this same symptom happens with the F11 key as well. It even crashes from within the bios, so something is very wrong. It's very erratic though, it functions as intended in windows XP, and if I launch a game like DOOM from within MS-DOS mode, F1 brings up help and F11 changes brightness as intended.

I guess I'm just going to have to live with this, I don't presume it's as simple as getting a cheap part to hand solder onto my 440bx motherboard as stated above. Shame that such a nice computer could be nearly ruined because of some buggy keyboard symptom 😢

** I just tried a PS2 to USB adapter, same symptoms.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

Sigh. If I boot to DOS 6.22 the f1 key crashes it entirely, I also noticed this same symptom happens with the F11 key as well. It even crashes from within the bios, so something is very wrong. It's very erratic though, it functions as intended in windows XP, and if I launch a game like DOOM from within MS-DOS mode, F1 brings up help and F11 changes brightness as intended.

definitely BIOS keyboard handler issues, try to update BIOS first or use diffiretnt keyboard (AFAIK there are keyboard drivers floating around, but most of them are just keyboard layout switchers for russian/AZERTY/etc layout so they perhaps will not help you)

by the way, does USB keyboard with USB support enabled works? (why not? 😀)

wbc wrote:

BeginnerGuy wrote:

Sigh. If I boot to DOS 6.22 the f1 key crashes it entirely, I also noticed this same symptom happens with the F11 key as well. It even crashes from within the bios, so something is very wrong. It's very erratic though, it functions as intended in windows XP, and if I launch a game like DOOM from within MS-DOS mode, F1 brings up help and F11 changes brightness as intended.

definitely BIOS keyboard handler issues, try to update BIOS first or use diffiretnt keyboard (AFAIK there are keyboard drivers floating around, but most of them are just keyboard layout switchers for russian/AZERTY/etc layout so they perhaps will not help you)

by the way, does USB keyboard with USB support enabled works? (why not? 😀)

There is one more bios revision for this board but it seems quite minimal per the notes. I have tried two separate keyboards with the same exact symptoms. Hmm not sure if i have basic usb keyboard to test out, would these operate on a separate controller or bios handler from ps/2?

I'll try updating the bios first and see what happens. I can also write my own interrupt handler and try to see if i can bandage the issue at least for my own software. Based on the symptoms im guessing SPG is using the bios handler but DOOM does not (which is apparent since you can do multiple keypresses). Doom does not have any issue reading F1 or F11. Which would indicate this isn't hardware related, If it was an issue with the bios version i would expect it to be well documented though given the popularity of intel 440bx boards.

I'm wondering if windows XP loads its own keyboard interrupt as well, since i can't recreate these symptoms within xp.

Sorry for repeating myself, but replace the 8042 keyboard controller on the mainboard.

derSammler wrote:

Sorry for repeating myself, but replace the 8042 keyboard controller on the mainboard.

I appreciate the comment but that's a bit of a stretch for me. You would have to at least provide some detail on locating and replacing this chip. Where is it located on an SE440BX-2 and can I find replacements online? I like learning but I can't find any information on this with search engines, motherboard repairs I've done in the past are limited to replacing caps and fixing corroded traces.

Also, I'm failing to understand how this would be a hardware issue when the problem does not seem to exist outside of software that uses the bios keyboard handler. Windows XP and any software I test that loads in it's own interrupt handler are responding properly to keypresses. If the hardware controller wasn't operating properly, I would expect the wrong scan code? WBC's post seems to agree that it's the bios. I'll write a program that will read out the scan codes directly and see for sure. Unless it's possible the hardware controller is still faulty, I don't know...

re wbc, I've updated to the latest bios revision for this board and I found a Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 (USB) to test, same symptoms persist! Shouldn't the USB keyboard be using a ps/2 emulator? Symptoms persist using USB legacy mode in real dos mode. Also, running a key reader in windows 98 shows the f1 key working properly:

Software seems to be picking up the proper scan, no buggy behavior in anything outside of Bios + Dos 6.22 or 16 bit applications =\. I suppose I've now exhausted every possibility outside of derSammlers. Though honestly I think I may just settle for a new board for now if need be.

Its likely a problem with the keyboard controller or BIOS. One trick to try is running EMM386 to force the machine into v86 mode while running DOS. See if the F1 key works. Another thing to try is removing the sound card, I have a machine that has weird keyboard problems (likely the controller) when SoundBlaster audio is playing and the machine is in real mode.

BeginnerGuy wrote:

I've updated to the latest bios revision for this board and I found a Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 800 (USB) to test, same symptoms persist! Shouldn't the USB keyboard be using a ps/2 emulator? Symptoms persist using USB legacy mode in real dos mode.

If the attached image is correct the keyboard controller seems to be involved in the emulation part. Can you set the keyboard clock in the BIOS? Often you can set it to 8/12/16 Mhz. Perhaps that has effect.