VOGONS


Reply 40 of 76, by tayyare

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appiah4 wrote:

The three of us should put together OS/2 Warp 3 or 4 PCs.. And this conversation should probably split off into an OS/2 discussion thred.. 🤣

My first ever retro rig was a 8-HDD 15 or 16-OS multiboot weirdo. It had both OS/2 Warp 3 and 4 🤣 (just out of curiosity and nostalgia)

😊

GA-6VTXE PIII 1.4+512MB
Geforce4 Ti 4200 64MB
Diamond Monster 3D 12MB SLI
SB AWE64 PNP+32MB
120GB IDE Samsung/80GB IDE Seagate/146GB SCSI Compaq/73GB SCSI IBM
Adaptec AHA29160
3com 3C905B-TX
Gotek+CF Reader
MSDOS 6.22+Win 3.11/95 OSR2.1/98SE/ME/2000

Reply 41 of 76, by lolo799

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There's another memory manager called Memory ServerII from I-O Data.
The version for the PC-98 platform is easy to find on Yahoo auctions but a DOS/V version does exist.

+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +
| Memory Server II for DOS / V Ver 1.04 Supplemental Information |
+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +

This document is about important information about this product.
Before use, please be sure to pass your eyes along with the manual.


+ ------------------------------------------------- +
| File structure |
+ ------------------------------------------------- +

Memory Server II consists of the following files.

Directory \

INSTALL.EXE Memory Server II Installer
ED.EXE Simple editor for installer
Logo data for IOLOGO.DAT installer
MSLOGO.DAT ?
README.TXT Supplementary information file (This file is)

Directory \ IOSPRO

VMM 386. EXE Virtual Memory Manager
VMM386.VXD VMM386.EXE VxD module for Windows
DPMI32.EXE DPMI server
LUMB.EXE UMB loader
OPTUMB.EXE UMB optimization tool
OPTUMB.INI OPTUMB.EXE configuration file
MSTAT.EXE memory usage display command


+ ------------------------------------------------- +
| INSTALL.EXE Ver 1.03 |
+ ------------------------------------------------- +

1. To install in an environment where you do not use EMS, select "Custom installation
Please select and set not to use EMS server.

2. Do not execute in Windows DOS compatible box.

3. If the EMS page frame can not be secured after installation, VMM 386 is included
It is not rare. In such a case, use / EMS (option of VMM 386. EXE)
Because it is necessary, add it with an editor etc., or run the installer again,
Please select "Custom installation" and make settings not to use EMS server.
Yes.


+ ------------------------------------------------- +
| VMM 386.EXE Ver 3.53 |
+ ------------------------------------------------- +

1. / NOREF 67 switch is provided as a speeding up option. However, some
Because it may not operate properly with the utility (MSD etc.), use
Please be careful enough.

2. Some models of COMPAQ recognize only 16MB even if 16MB or more memory is installed
It may not be. In such a case, use the editor etc. for the / COUNT switch
Please add to it.
Show last 55 lines

3. A memory of 64 MB or more is installed, and a memory space of 64 MB or more is protected memory and
If it is used, the / COUNT switch is necessary, so add it with an editor etc.
Thank you for your kind attention.


+ ------------------------------------------------- +
| DPMI 32. EXE Ver 1.03 |
+ ------------------------------------------------- +

1. In an environment where DPMI function is provided by DPMI 32. EXE, Borland C ++ is normal
It does not work. When using Borland C ++, temporarily by DPMI 32 / OFF
Please prohibit DPMI or cancel resident status with DPMI 32 / R before using.


+ ------------------------------------------------- +
| OPTUMB.EXE Ver 1.02 |
+ ------------------------------------------------- +

1. Do not execute in Windows DOS compatible box.

2. For models with resume function, do not use resume function when OPTUMB is executed
Please do.

3. On models with PC card slots, the PC card is unplugged when OPTUMB is executed
Please.

4. EMS may be unusable after UMB setting, such as when using a PC card.
Please confirm with MSTAT / E or MEM command etc after setting UMB.

5. Device file OPTUMB.INI does not operate properly if it resides in UMB
Representative of the driver and TSR are registered, and in both automatic / manual mode UMB
It is used to determine whether or not loading is possible.

It is not registered in this setting file "It will not work properly if it resides in UMB"
If you are using a device driver or TSR, set "Manual UMB setting"
Please set not to load the UMB.

6. In the UMB setting of OPTUMB, for safety reasons, F0000h - FFFFFh is set as the default in the UMB area
It is not set as. If you want to use this area as the UMB area, set the manual UMB
Please make "area change (add area of ??F0000h - FFFFFh)" by definition. However
If this area is set to the UMB area, some applications will operate normally
Please be careful as it may be gone.


+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +
| Memory Server II for DOS / V Version 1.04 Supplemental Information |
| 1996.January.19 |
| Issued I / O Data Equipment |
| ? 920 Ishikawa prefecture Kanazawa city Sakurada Town 24 blocks 1 |
| |
| Copyright 1995-96 I-O DATA DEVICE, INC. All rights reserved.
| This software and this document are protected by copyright law |
Therefore, it is forbidden to copy, reproduce, reprint or modify without prior consent. |
+ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- +

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 43 of 76, by Jo22

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The first one. Picture was taken in PCem with IBM 5170 emulation beeing choosen (Quadtel BIOS). :)

Edit; lolo799, thanks for the information about Memory Server II, too! - Never heard of it it before.
I think it's really cool how we can do learn still a lot about vintage tech (or software) every day, here on Vogons.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 44 of 76, by lolo799

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Some screenshots of the Memory Server II installer and of the UMB Optimizer:

install-1.png
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install-1.png
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memserv-settings.png
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memserv-settings.png
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ems-option.png
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ems-option.png
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optumb.png
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optumb.png
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optumbhelp.png
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optumbhelp.png
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The output of the /? switch of the utilities:

VMM 386 Virtual Memory Server Release 3.53
Copyright (C) 1992-1995 I-O DATA DEVICE, INC. All rights reserved.

Command format: vmm386 [/?] [/ I] [/ E | / NE] [/ X | / NX] [/ V | / NV]
/? Display help message
/ I status indication
/ E, / NE ON / OFF of EMS
/ X, / NX ON / OFF of XMS
/ V, / NV ON / OFF of VCPI
DPMI32.EXE DPMI Server Version 1.03(DOS/V Version)

The available options are :

/S=dd Stream buffer size ( dd= 1..64)
/L=dddd Number of LDT ( dddd= 512..8192)
/X Use XMS memory
/NX Not use XMS memory
/V Use VCPI memory
/NV Not use VCPI memory
/U Use UMB for stream buffer
/NU Not use UMB
/ON Activate DPMI
/OFF Inactivate DPMI
/R Remove from memory
LUMB  UMB Loader  Version 2.01
Copyright (C) 1992-95 I-O DATA DEVICE,INC. All rights reserved.

Style-1 To display UMB information
LUMB [option]
/? Quick reference.
/MAP Display UMB map.
/I Show UMB list.
/F Show free UMB list.
/NOESC Disable to use escape sequence

Style-2 To load device driver on UMB
DEVICE=LUMB.EXE [options] [filename [parameters]]
/INFO Display information during installing.
/M Load driver to conventional memory
if no UMB to install found.
/S=<Bytes Count> Specify memory size reserved for driver.
/B=<Block No.> Specify block number to load driver.

Style-3 To load TSR program on UMB
LUMB [options] [filename [parameters]]
/INFO Display information during installing.
/M Load driver to conventional memory
if no UMB found to install.
/S=<Bytes Count> Specify memory size reserved for TSR.
/ENVLAST Set environment area at highest UMB.
/ENVSIZE=<Byte Count> Specify largest UMB size
to set environment at.

NOTE
All value in "<>" needs hexadecimal.

And the output of mstat.exe:

MSTAT  Memory Status  Version 2.21
Copyright (C) 1992-95 I-O DATA DEVICE,INC. All rights reserved.

Û Conventional Memory Information
Address Size ID Name
--------------------------------------------
0B8A-0F67 15840 03DE0h 0008 System Data
0B8B 5008 01390h DEVICE=VMM386
0CC4 208 000D0h FILES
0CD1 272 00110h FCBS
0CE2 8000 01F40h BUFFERS
0ED6 464 001D0h LASTDRIVE
0EF3 1872 00750h STACKS
0F68-108E 4720 01270h 0F69 "COMMAND"
108F-1093 80 00050h ---- Not in use
1094-10A4 272 00110h 0F69 Environment
10A5-10AA 96 00060h ---- Not in use
10AB-12B3 8336 02090h 10AC "DPMI32"
12B4-12BB 128 00080h ---- Not in use
12BC-9FFF 578624 8D440h ---- Not in use

Total Memory Size .................. 655360 bytes
Free Memory Size ................... 578928 bytes
Maximum Image Size to Load ......... 578608 bytes

Û UMB Information
@Not implemented UMB Function.

Û EMS Information
Version ............................ 4.0
Total Page Count ................... 945(15120 Kbytes)
Unallocated Page Count ............. 934(14944 Kbytes)

Page Frame Segment Address ......... D000h
Mappable Physical Page Count ....... 4
Mappable Physical Address .......... D000h D400h D800h DC00h

Total Handles ...................... 64
Free Handles ....................... 61
Attribute Capability ............... Only Volatile Handles

Handle Name Pages Attribute
----------------------------------------------------
0 0( 0 KB) Volatile
1 XMS 0( 0 KB) Volatile
2 VCPI 11( 176 KB) Volatile

Û XMS Information
XMS Version Number ................. 3.00
Driver Internal Revision Number .... 3.53
Entry Address of XMS Function ...... 0B8C:0430
HMA Status ......................... Not in Use
Largest Free EMB ................... 14688 Kbytes
Total Amount of Free EMB ........... 14688 Kbytes

Û VCPI Information
Version ............................ 1.00
Free 4K Page Count ................. 3737

Û DPMI Information
Show last 7 lines
  CPU ................................ 80486
Version ............................ 1.00
Supported API ...................... 32Bit
Size of private data area .......... 0 bytes
Entry address for protected mode ... 10BCh:0CBEh

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 45 of 76, by Jo22

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Wow, thanks a lot for these pictures, lolo799! :D
IMHO, it looks quite polished and nice and tidy..
A bit like the GUIs of Towns OS or Human 68k from other platforms.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 46 of 76, by dieymir

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There are several alternatives to QEMM and 386max. Personally I had good results with Helix Netroom.

You can try Memory Commander too, but, unlike Netroom, I do not have good memories of it.

Reply 49 of 76, by appiah4

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I know you found your answer, but Windows 9x does not make use of any DOS memory management utilities.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 51 of 76, by CraigAB69

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I was wondering this same question recently and why it used to be a pain-in-the....

Then I remembered that the DOS menu wasn't available until DOS 6.
Now that I am a bit more aware of how to move things around into different memory and cut down to exactly what I want the configuration to do, it seems, at this point to me, that the different vendors are for the masses so they did not have to think of how programs are loaded into memory.

So I am not sure if there is really any difference other than the convenience of automation.

“Wyrd bið ful āræd. Fate is inexorable.”

Reply 52 of 76, by Gmlb256

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CraigAB69 wrote on 2022-12-30, 04:50:
I was wondering this same question recently and why it used to be a pain-in-the.... […]
Show full quote

I was wondering this same question recently and why it used to be a pain-in-the....

Then I remembered that the DOS menu wasn't available until DOS 6.
Now that I am a bit more aware of how to move things around into different memory and cut down to exactly what I want the configuration to do, it seems, at this point to me, that the different vendors are for the masses so they did not have to think of how programs are loaded into memory.

So I am not sure if there is really any difference other than the convenience of automation.

At least QEMM has major differences over EMM386 when it comes to getting a lot of conventional memory available.

The most notable one is the "stealth" mode feature which relocates ROMs away from upper memory to provide more UMB for loading more TSRs, it can introduce incompatibilities depending on the circumstances and I don't recommend that for beginners.

Another is DOS-Up, which can load COMMAND.COM and DOS resources (BUFFERS, FILES, etc.) into UMB. Being more useful with older DOS versions that didn't have these abilities out of the box.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 53 of 76, by Jo22

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I don't known about 386Max, but QEMM (v7 up) supports VME aka Enhanced V86 (that one feature Ryzen did mess up) .
So in theory, both performance and compatibility could be improved.

https://linustechtips.com/topic/779261-ryzen- … -vme-is-broken/

https://www.os2museum.com/wp/vme-broken-on-amd-ryzen/

http://www.rcollins.org/ddj/Jan98/Jan98.html

http://www.rcollins.org/articles/vme1/VME_Overview.html

PS: The source code of 386Max was released since this thread was created.

Edit: Helix Netroom, as mentioned by dieymir before, is an interesting alternative, too.
It uses a completely different approach:
Afaik, it tries to use modified drivers (if possible) and loads them past 1 MB border.
With lots of trickery, real-mode and protected-mode applications will still get access to them.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 54 of 76, by CraigAB69

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-30, 05:35:

At least QEMM has major differences over EMM386 when it comes to getting a lot of conventional memory available.

The most notable one is the "stealth" mode feature which relocates ROMs away from upper memory to provide more UMB for loading more TSRs, it can introduce incompatibilities depending on the circumstances and I don't recommend that for beginners.

Another is DOS-Up, which can load COMMAND.COM and DOS resources (BUFFERS, FILES, etc.) into UMB. Being more useful with older DOS versions that didn't have these abilities out of the box.

Thanks for that, I'll have a bit of a look at the Stealth and Dos-Up feature.

To be honest, though I am hesitant to put trust in things that may introduce weird incompatibilities and end up chasing faults that would otherwise not be there.
Is there an old Knowledgebase archived somewhere?

“Wyrd bið ful āræd. Fate is inexorable.”

Reply 55 of 76, by Gmlb256

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CraigAB69 wrote on 2022-12-30, 11:08:

Is there an old Knowledgebase archived somewhere?

There is a manual for version 7 on archive.org. It requires an account to "borrow" it and get access to all pages.

Apart from this, a boxed copy of QEMM comes with technotes and the manual in physical form.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 56 of 76, by CraigAB69

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-30, 13:31:

There is a manual for version 7 on archive.org. It requires an account to "borrow" it and get access to all pages.

Apart from this, a boxed copy of QEMM comes with technotes and the manual in physical form.

Thanks for that mate.
I luckily discovered that site some time ago. I usually find the book on Internet Archieve then try and locate a printed version. I prefer to read an actual book. But it is great for doing searches through texts.

But I was hoping Quaterdeck had a old KB like the MS one: https://www.pcjs.org/documents/books/mspl13/kb/ There is also one on GitHub.

“Wyrd bið ful āræd. Fate is inexorable.”

Reply 57 of 76, by CraigAB69

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Yea, I don't think Qemm 8 or 8.03, likes VirtualBox 7.0.4r154605.

I was getting exceptions when exiting Norton Commander 5.5. It seemed to go away in NC 5.51 but every now and then something would flash up.
Then in Win 3.11 I would get GPF's and when exiting Windows back to DOS it would just become unresponsive.

But then again 386MAX did strange stuff as well.

I wonder if the testing primarily just revolves around MS memory management.

Maybe it acts differently on real hardware?

“Wyrd bið ful āræd. Fate is inexorable.”

Reply 58 of 76, by Jo22

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CraigAB69 wrote on 2023-01-01, 03:28:

Yea, I don't think Qemm 8 or 8.03, likes VirtualBox 7.0.4r154605.

I'm using an MS-DOS 6.22 VM with QEMM 9 in Virtual Box 4.1.12..
I've created it a few years ago when I was testing DESQView/X, I believe.

Edit: Newer releases of the famous virtualization products seem to use hardware-assisted virtualization all the time.
Maybe there's some sort of stability issue. Maybe the host CPU has compatibility issues on its own, too.
I'm currently on an Intel Xeon system, running Windows XP 32-Bit. Intel-VT isn't used.
It's my emulator PC, so to say. Not the main PC - that's a Raspberry Pi 4, still.

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 59 of 76, by CraigAB69

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Jo22 wrote on 2023-01-01, 10:25:

I'm using an MS-DOS 6.22 VM with QEMM 9 in Virtual Box 4.1.12..
I've created it a few years ago when I was testing DESQView/X, I believe.

Yea, I don't know mate.

I have been using that Dos 6.2, Win 3.11 for about 12 months now and it ran as expected. Install Qemm and strange crashes started.

Qemm has been removed, and stability has returned.

I don't really have time to dig into it at the moment and RTFM.

The TECNOTE directory didn't even help, nor the 2 books on Internet Archieve.
Which is is why I was looking for a KB.
I even tried to look for quaterdeck.com on WayBackMachine, be even those snapshot redirected to porn sites.

“Wyrd bið ful āræd. Fate is inexorable.”