Not too retro, but i have modified my DOS GUI system to work with 1 bit graphics cards.

XcomGUI wrote on 2022-08-08, 17:48:

Not too retro, but i have modified my DOS GUI system to work with 1 bit graphics cards. […]
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Not too retro, but i have modified my DOS GUI system to work with 1 bit graphics cards.

1 bit ...so monochrome ? though I guess they would technically be two bits 0 and 1.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-08, 17:49:

1 bit ...so monochrome ? though I guess they would technically be two bits 0 and 1.

Yes. It only works on cards with VGA-style video bios right now. I have also made the code paths for Hercules, and EGA, but for some reason, i am not getting any picture with those.

XcomGUI wrote on 2022-08-08, 17:52:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-08, 17:49:

1 bit ...so monochrome ? though I guess they would technically be two bits 0 and 1.

Yes. It only works on cards with VGA-style video bios right now. I have also made the code paths for Hercules, and EGA, but for some reason, i am not getting any picture with those.

hmmm perhaps your video card isn't able to switch to Hercules or EGA modes though I would be surprised by this.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-08, 17:54:

hmmm perhaps your video card isn't able to switch to Hercules or EGA modes though I would be surprised by this.

I have tested it with dosbox too (mode=hercules and mode=ega), but no luck so far. Maybe a compatiiblity issue with dpmi.

Azarien wrote on 2022-08-07, 17:10:

gdjacobs wrote on 2022-04-03, 16:42:

Or DOS.

What is "based on DOS" in Windows 11?

Kind of the point.

DOS was extended into Win 1.x-ME. From there, APIs were ported into NT. Most of the older legacy APIs began to be retired as Windows moved to 64 bit, predominantly starting with Vista (I don't consider XP 64 bit to be mainstream). In addition, Windows can't run legacy 8086 code or V86 mode while in 64 bit, so traditional DOS VM as available in 32 bit NT can't be used.

There is a historical or familial relationship, but there is no longer any architectural or code relationship.

gdjacobs wrote on 2022-08-21, 17:24:

Kind of the point. […]
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Azarien wrote on 2022-08-07, 17:10:

gdjacobs wrote on 2022-04-03, 16:42:

Or DOS.

What is "based on DOS" in Windows 11?

Kind of the point.

DOS was extended into Win 1.x-ME. From there, APIs were ported into NT. Most of the older legacy APIs began to be retired as Windows moved to 64 bit, predominantly starting with Vista (I don't consider XP 64 bit to be mainstream). In addition, Windows can't run legacy 8086 code or V86 mode while in 64 bit, so traditional DOS VM as available in 32 bit NT can't be used.

There is a historical or familial relationship, but there is no longer any architectural or code relationship.

I think the same that the DOS part was merely synthetic and not a crucial part of Windows NT (for NT itself).
What Windows NT had was an emulated/modified version of MS-DOS 5, which ran in NTVDM. On top of that, a cut-down version of Windows 3.1 (WoW session).
And by comparison with OS/2 Warp, both NTVDM and WoW were very limited. OS/2's OS2VDM was using a full copy of DOS, along with all (almost) the DOS utilities.
It even had its own folder. Likewise, Win-OS/2. It was a full copy of Windows 3.1x and could be upgraded to WfW 3.11, even.

However, if Microsoft really wanted, it could have had used NTVDM/WoW without V86.
if memory serves, some hackers did start porting NTVDM (based on the knowledge gained by a leaked source) to the new Windows x64 just a while ago.
The project is called NTVDMx64, I believe. I won't provide links, though.

The inability to provide a 16-Bit system because of Long Mode lacking V86 is a lame excuse by Microsoft, I think.
Microsoft used this argument over and over, because its so convenient for getting rid of legacy components.
As if today's AMD-V and Intel-VT based hardware-assisted virtualization won't be of any help.
Digital Research's Concurrent DOS supported DOS VMs on a 286 in 16-Bit Protected Mode without any V86.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiuser_DOS#CDOS286

And Long Mode does allow the execution of 16-Bit Protected-Mode code just fine.
At least the Windows 3.1 Standard Mode kernal could have been virtualized that way.
- Wabi accomplished the same on Linux way back in the 90s, by virtualizing the 386 Enhanced Mode kernal. Without DOS.

In fact, it went even further:
"Wabi was released for both x86 and SPARC systems and also on PowerPC for AIX.[2]
In order to run an x86 Windows environment on SPARC systems, a code translation layer was also provided, which dynamically converts x86 instructions on first use into SPARC instructions.[3]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi_(software)

I think it's a shame that such a mega corp like Microsoft is unable to archieve something like that 25 years later in the future.

Anyway, another possibility would have been to continue to use the NTVDM of the Alpha/Mips/Power PC versions of Windows NT.
They had a working NTVDM running on a full emulator, based on SoftPC.
And when performance of the emulation was okay in the 90s, it must now be almost stellar with current technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftPC

Edit: These are just my two cents. I'm sure you already know that and didn't mean to annoy or educate you whatsoever. Such topics do simply fascinate me. 😅

I think it's a shame a mega corp like Microsoft can't actually finish porting their Windows control panel functionality over to the new UI after 10 years.

Both 32-bit OS/2 and 32-bit NT had MS/PC Dos as vms.

Of course in OS/2 you where able to boot different Dos variants in windowed sessions. NT nope not without extra VM software.

XcomGUI wrote on 2022-08-08, 17:48:

Not too retro, but i have modified my DOS GUI system to work with 1 bit graphics cards. […]
Show full quote

Not too retro, but i have modified my DOS GUI system to work with 1 bit graphics cards.

Looks a lot like Calmira III. That will run on 4meg of ram on a 386 plus cpu just fine.

Have you contacted Nathen Linebech from http://toastytech.com/ about it at all? Would go nicely on his GUI page.

Nice work. 😉

MarkP wrote on 2022-08-23, 00:19:

Both 32-bit OS/2 and 32-bit NT had MS/PC Dos as vms.

Of course in OS/2 you where able to boot different Dos variants in windowed sessions. NT nope not without extra VM software.

OS/2 was so far ahead of its time, it's unbelievable..

FreeSCO FTW, that's fucking rocks that they still have their webpage after all this time: https://www.freesco.org/

This was a cool 1 floppy router linux OS, some ipchains glories from those early days!

Anyone remember a homebrew OS in the 2000s called StormOS? All trace of it is gone but was a cool project someone had.