EMM386 explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame / unable to set page frame + tuning

Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-7-14 @ 18:42

ruthan wrote:
gdjacobs wrote:Could you please also check if JEMM386 is compatible with DSDMA?

I never used it, when you will give me download link and config line, i will test it.


You have already got it earlier ...
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=60451#p680332
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-14 @ 19:30

Falcosoft wrote:
ruthan wrote:
gdjacobs wrote:Could you please also check if JEMM386 is compatible with DSDMA?

I never used it, when you will give me download link and config line, i will test it.

You are right, but its 2012 version, its newest? And what about line or syntax is the the same as EMM386? I used to ask how people exactly want, its better than something wrong.
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-15 @ 00:43

I have tried JEMM386.. with my EMM386 line parameters:
DEVICEHIGH=C:\Drivers\JEMM\JEMM386.EXE 16384 I=B400-B7FF NOTR I=CA00-CBFF RAM HIGHSCAN VERBOSE
NOTR and HIGHSCAN were ignored

Im now using burnmem.sys set to 256MB instead of HimemX.exe, as im using it with EMM i dunno if it matters?

Good news, i squeezed 14K of conventional memory in the comparison with EMM386 (594->618), boot report:
JEMM-Boot.jpg

Bad news, any game of 10 games which i tried is not running error message is always the same:
JemmError.jpg


DOS/16M error: [17] system software does not follow VCPI or DPMI specifications, i tried DOS32a error message is the same.

Mem /C/P and MEm /D/P logs for EMM + JEMM for both xms (Emm only) and ems RAM:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/92swi72m84i4i ... S.TXT?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhdo8fuu27nc4 ... S.TXT?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/42vsmjptkueyu ... S.TXT?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qydah24xfnag4 ... S.TXT?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2os08xjjeeug ... S.TXT?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nhma508udqed7 ... S.TXT?dl=0

Update: its same with HimemX and simplied line:
Code: Select all
JEMM386.EXE 16384 RAM VERBOSE
Last edited by ruthan on 2018-7-16 @ 13:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-15 @ 23:33

Hmm, i have discovered that my new EMM settings make my DOS EMS boot incompatible with Nvidia GPU.. Im time to time, want to use it for ATI / Nvidia testing, could you give new some other memory range? XMS boot with card as primary is ok.

When is card not selected as primary GPU its ok..
I get rid of some localization lines:
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
Country=042,852,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys

And i saved other 16 KB, now im at 610 KB.
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-16 @ 15:50

D
Stretch wrote:Make sure PXE boot and USB legacy are turned off. Then boot off a floppy with no config.sys or autoexec.bat and run umbchk from umbpci in order to find your free mem.

Ok i ran umbchk from hdd with only himemX.exe loade here is output: // PCI videocard as primary
2018-07-16 16.44.01.jpg

Update: Nvidia geforce 220 as primary GPU:
2018-07-16 17.59.46.jpg

2 more areas are marked as used.

Should i update my EMM386 parameters, which would be best regarding of this info?
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-16 @ 20:13

Tried more experimenting with JEMM, some games are running with sound.. but only older as Golden Axe, Ishar 1, TES:Arena, NHL93, Lost Vikings, BlackThorne, DuneII. Every modern game with is using Dos4GW as file is not working, even modern games (at least 94+) without it are not working, maybe is extender inbuild in exe not as file.

Maybe this could help Quake gave me different error message:
4x Protected mode not accessible.
Load error: No DPMI.
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby Srandista » 2018-7-16 @ 20:48

Regarding Quake, check this Wiki article: CWSDPMI
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-17 @ 03:34

Srandista wrote:Regarding Quake, check this Wiki article: CWSDPMI

This only for Quake i would say that now is time for JEMMs guy to say where is problem and how to fix it.

I more strange error from setmul:
3x Protected mode not accesssible.
Load error: no DPMI - Get csdpmi*b.zip
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-7-17 @ 06:23

ruthan wrote:Tried more experimenting with JEMM, some games are running with sound.. but only older as Golden Axe, Ishar 1, TES:Arena, NHL93, Lost Vikings, BlackThorne, DuneII. Every modern game with is using Dos4GW as file is not working, even modern games (at least 94+) without it are not working, maybe is extender inbuild in exe not as file.

Maybe this could help Quake gave me different error message:
4x Protected mode not accessible.
Load error: No DPMI.


Strange, I generally don't have issues with JEMM, although Privateer required some parameter tweaking.
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Re: EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, fix warning- Option ROM or RAM detected within page fram

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-19 @ 00:48

I did some memory area research with Nvidia card (to make both GPU working), with too block and bigger and one small one - one area B100-B1FF etc.. and discovered that those are free (Good), BAD not free, B is B000-B0FF,B100-B1FF etc.. :
GOOD: B:0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 BAD:8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F
GOOD: C:E,F BAD:0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D
GOOD: D:0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 BAD:8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F
GOOD: E:4,5,6,7,8,9,A,F BAD:0,1,2,3,B,C,D,E

With all of these ranges is Nvidia card booting too.

I dicovered that most free conv memory i have with these 2 ranges:
I=B000-B5FF NV-594/2 KB free conv/ largest free block, ATI-610/10
I=B000-B4FF (I=E800-E8FF or E900-E9F or EA00-EAFF or EF00-EFFF) NV-594/3 - best, ATI 610/10

Is some of these location better, safer etc?

gdjacobs wrote:Could you please also check if JEMM386 is compatible with DSDMA?

I did some more testing and you probably had sixth sense.. Without DSDMA.EXE all games under JEMM are running, without that strange error.
I also tried JEMMEX instead of HIMEM and JEMM, its even crashing on DSDMA.EXE

I using Yamaha drivers with patched DSDMA.exe otherwise on FX sounds on my board.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-22 @ 20:34

I have info from Rayer he tested Yamaha 744 on H67 chipset, its working.. but with JEMM he has exactly same error as do i:
DOS/16M error: [17] system software does not follow VCPI or DPMI specifications
So its not some mistake on my side etc.. He also test it with QEMM and info is that compatibility is maybe slightly better.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-25 @ 04:19

I finally found good tool to check which ROM ate my hamster (Upper memory).
CheckIT->MemoryMap and when you select used location press Enter, i get info about ROM vendor.. On my Core 2 machine is Nvidia Roms eating whole A000-B7FF - 128KB and other Nvidia ROM part (its 1 videocard machine with Geforce 6600) is eating other 72 KB kB (C0000-D200), if would be 64Kb is wold be quite ok, but 72KB is bad, because of EMM specs it need continual 64KB block for Page frame in C000-E000 location and that 8KB is big problem.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-7-25 @ 06:51

Hi,
It seems there's some misunderstanding here:
ruthan wrote: Nvidia Roms eating whole A000-B7FF - 128KB

1. A000-B7FF is only 96K not 128K so this range is rather A000-BFFF.
2. A000-AFFF is always used by VGA as Video RAM (not ROM!) for Graphic modes. It's vendor independent (old VGA cards like S3 Trio's also use this area).
3. B800-BFFF is always used by VGA as Video RAM for Text modes. It's also vendor independent.
4. Only B000-B7FF can be (relatively) safely included as potential UMB on VGA systems since it's the memory area for monochrome Text modes. So it does not make much sense to use 'I=B000-B4FF' since it's not more compatible than 'I=B000-B7FF' and you lose 12K.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby dr_st » 2018-7-25 @ 07:17

Falcosoft wrote:4. Only B000-B7FF can be (relatively) safely included as potential UMB on VGA systems since it's the memory area for monochrome Text modes. So it does not make much sense to use 'I=B000-B4FF' since it's not more compatible than 'I=B000-B7FF' and you lose 12K.
I seem to recall that CD-Man 2.0 and Prehistorik 1 did not work for me using I=B000-B7FF, but they do work using the I=B400-B7FF flag. I guess it just has to do with whatever random region they happened to use.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-7-25 @ 08:04

dr_st wrote:I seem to recall that CD-Man 2.0 and Prehistorik 1 did not work for me using I=B000-B7FF, but they do work using the I=B400-B7FF flag. I guess it just has to do with whatever random region they happened to use.

Hi,
using 'I=B400-B7FF' actually can work since monochrome memory region addressing is NOT random. 0xB0000 (linear address) always specifies the leftmost/topmost character. Every character occupies 2 bytes (first byte is the character code, and the second gives the attribute) in adjacent order from left to right and then from top to bottom. Since MDA by default uses 80x25 mode it's actually only~ 4K. So if a program uses MDA default 80x25 mode in theory it is possible to use addresses above 0xB1000. So even 'I=B100-B7FF' can work (if only one frame buffer is present). Notice that this is a different scenario compared to Ruthan's. He is using 'I=B000-B4FF' that does not make sense since no monochrome text mode has a starting address at the middle of the this region (0xB5000). That's why 'I=B000-B4FF' is not more compatible than 'I=B000-B7FF'.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-25 @ 20:01

Falcosoft wrote:Hi,
It seems there's some misunderstanding here.

Yeah i was technically wrong, because i didnt differ between Video RAM and ROM, i started thing about this things later with Windows, so for my Video Ram as part of RAM is strange idea (yeah i know that even new OS needs some video ram mapping mechanism too), it wasnt part of my way of thinking about how computer work.

For me was important message that all areas are "ate" by some Video card stuff..

Falcosoft wrote:1. A000-B7FF is only 96K not 128K so this range is rather A000-BFFF.
2. A000-AFFF is always used by VGA as Video RAM (not ROM!) for Graphic modes. It's vendor independent (old VGA cards like S3 Trio's also use this area).
3. B800-BFFF is always used by VGA as Video RAM for Text modes. It's also vendor independent.
4. Only B000-B7FF can be (relatively) safely included as potential UMB on VGA systems since it's the memory area for monochrome Text modes. So it does not make much sense to use 'I=B000-B4FF' since it's not more compatible than 'I=B000-B7FF' and you lose 12K.

I wish that this would be posted much earlier, it would explain lots of things.. i have to find out this slowly by myself.. CheckIT showing same in slightly other words:
A000-C000(=B7FF - thing that they are not using hexa adress to make it more understandable for normal people, if it means they are 1 byte wrong) (its really 128KB) - overal block Named Video Card RAM - after details:
  • A000-B000(=AFFF)-VGA graphics // You are saying Vendor intedepend - so simply not good idea touch it.
  • B000-B800(=B7FF) MDA text // You are saying this is our play area.. and you dont need it all B000-B800 range, B400-B800 a bit safer than B000-B400, because B000-B100 (4k) is used to frequent MDA 80x25 text mode - if B100-B7FF is safer / batter than B100-B7FF(700h), but for EMS is enough 600H - B200-B7FF - could be best choice you cant use C,D or E memory areas.
  • B800-C000(=BFFF) EGA graphics/text // You saying text modes - vendor independent.
C000-D000 unknow ROM - when i display details - Nvidia Corp - 1996-2004
What is not cool that it even card of same gen are different ROM footprint Geforce 6200-64KB rom, Geforce 72KB, i heard by someone that even 64KB is relatively big one and this 8KB diffrence make some my machines not working with EMM386.exe RAM.. or without of frame RAM / ROM conflict message, because of not continual 64KB area.

On X58 machine for which i started discussion - im now using - I=B000-B5FF.. i see at least in Simcity 1 broken text chacracters - its possible that is due using with MDA text area?
On Core 2 machine im now using D000-DFFF area for everything.. EMS RAM place itself automatically here too.

Other thing which i dont understand is good or bad, give I parameter bigger area? Because in specs is that EMS it needs at 600h (B000-B5FF), so why use 800h - B000-B7FF, is there any advantage?

I need explain also mem output - showing parameter - Largest free block in upper memory area - on my machine and EMS configuration - i have here 0K/1k/2k with some configuration i have more conventional memory but this parameter has bigger value 10k/20k/40k? What is better, is 0/1/2 KB only some compatibility problem?
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-7-26 @ 18:55

ruthan wrote:[q
Other thing which i dont understand is good or bad, give I parameter bigger area? Because in specs is that EMS it needs at 600h (B000-B5FF), so why use 800h - B000-B7FF, is there any advantage?
I need explain also mem output - showing parameter - Largest free block in upper memory area - on my machine and EMS configuration - i have here 0K/1k/2k with some configuration i have more conventional memory but this parameter has bigger value 10k/20k/40k? What is better, is 0/1/2 KB only some compatibility problem?

1. If you include bigger area then you can have more UMB's to load device drivers/TSR programs high (devicehigh, loadhigh). Included area is not only relevant for EMS related stuff(page frame etc.) but also for available UMB's.
2. Free upper memory (UMB) reported by MEM is wasted space. Normal programs cannot use free upper memory when run. Only free conventional memory is useful for them. If you have much free upper memory reported by MEM then you should try loading more drivers/TSR to high thus getting more free conventional memory.
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Re: EMM386.EXE D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-27 @ 06:31

Thanks for explanations i added more info to guide in other thread.

Im still trying to make my Core 2 good on conventional memory side.. There is still something wrong, im trying to use my X58 machine knowledge to it, but im failing.

X58 CheckIT info: // There i have plenty of memory. EMS auto page frame is set to D800, so page frame is D800-E800.
X58.jpg

Core 2 Check IT info:
i865.jpg

Im only able to get Cure working with EMS frame starting at D000, otherwise im getting that some ROM or RAM is within frame page warning, i tried D400,D800,DC00,E000, with vanilla EMS auto settings i have upper memory block 0KB, when i use B200-B7FF i have 20KB and convetintional memory (580KB). Only with warning when i use D000-D7FF for example and frame at D800i have plenty of conventional memory (600 KB+), but i would be probably illusion because of conflict.

When i look at Checkit infos, i dont get where is problem. That memory area E000-E400 or E400-E800 which i would like to use for Frame is ate by HiRam-64KB on Conroe, but 32KB only on X58 - and there is other 16KB block in D400-D800 are but still 48!=64KB , what is exactly HiRam? Can i target it too? When i force page frame to D800.. Hi Ram on Conroe is only 32KB, but there is that warning..
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Re: EMM386 explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame / unable to set page frame + tuning

Postby ruthan » 2018-7-30 @ 02:04

JEMM is now working with Yamahas with new magic JEMM parameter NOVME, i was discovered by Kamerat(thx).
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Re: EMM386 explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame / unable to set page frame + tuning

Postby gdjacobs » 2018-7-30 @ 17:05

ruthan wrote:JEMM is now working with Yamahas with new magic JEMM parameter NOVME, i was discovered by Kamerat(thx).


Cool! That should make the base RAM usage ~20k lighter.
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