VOGONS


First post, by CaelThunderwing

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

https://rubenerd.com/dual-boot-windows-31-95/ i want to run this guide but before i do *anything should i bother installing my drivers (sound)untill i finished the last stage? or is there a better way? the HDD in the system is a 20GB in use via an DDO.

Reply 1 of 14, by jesolo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I would recommend you rather use a Boot Manager in this instance.
Personally, I don't like to have all my operating systems on one partition.

Back in the day, I used OS/2's Boot Manager.

Reply 2 of 14, by Zup

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The best option would be using a boot manager... but MBR is already taken by your DDO software (won't your HDD work without it? what about a BIOS update?).

That guide should work because it doesn't use any boot manager (but I don't know how will perform Windows 95 using DDO). I guess that the best option would be installing DOS entirely (with drivers) and then Windows 95. Doing so, there is no way that your driver can doing something in the wrong set of boot files.

It is very important that you use different folders for Windows 3.x and Windows 95. By default, Windows 95 will try to update your Windows 3.x installation (that you don't want to overwrite), so take care.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 3 of 14, by CaelThunderwing

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

well initally i did Try dos and 3.1 first then installed my sound drivers, the after 95 was installed and boote dfor teh first time i kept getting Errors from the few at-boot parts of the Dos-end drivers for the system's Creative Soundblaster Vibra16X (so i think Win95 retained Autoexec.bat/Config.sys rather than .A40

as for using w/o a DDO, No i cant. the maximum this old system seems to allow is just bearly past 512MB. (early ECS UC4913 Rev 2.0 which im not teh first on teh forums to come across this Motherboard. ) no onboard I/O outside Keyboard everything else is handled by an SuperI/O (MultiI/O) card. i think the card Can address it.just a bios issue.

jesolo wrote:

I would recommend you rather use a Boot Manager in this instance.
Personally, I don't like to have all my operating systems on one partition.

Back in the day, I used OS/2's Boot Manager.

as for a sperate partition w/o messing w/ the main primary partition, i dont know Ho wto install Windows 95 there w/o Exposing the Main partition. i use dto get away w/ 95& 98 by using Bootmagic in the day. but this would require me installing 95 first then 3.1 i guess?

Reply 4 of 14, by jesolo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
CaelThunderwing wrote:

as for a sperate partition w/o messing w/ the main primary partition, i dont know Ho wto install Windows 95 there w/o Exposing the Main partition. i use dto get away w/ 95& 98 by using Bootmagic in the day. but this would require me installing 95 first then 3.1 i guess?

OS/2's Boot Manager takes care of creating separate partitions for you, which you then set up separately via the normal installation process of each operating system.
However, as stated earlier, since you are using DDO software, this might cause problems if used in conjunction with a Boot Manager.

Another alternative is to use the XT-IDE BIOS, flash it onto an EEPROM chip and boot up via a network card with a boot ROM socket. That way, you don't have to use DDO software.

I can post a guide for that if you can find a network card with a boot ROM socket.

Reply 5 of 14, by ATauenis

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
CaelThunderwing wrote:

https://rubenerd.com/dual-boot-windows-31-95/ i want to run this guide but before i do *anything should i bother installing my drivers (sound)untill i finished the last stage? or is there a better way? the HDD in the system is a 20GB in use via an DDO.

No! Do not use "Previous version of MS-DOS" thing in Win95 bootloader with such large HDD. It is compatible only with FAT16 partitions. You probably need to patch Win95 to run 3.1 (google: OSR2FIX), then install Win3.1 in a custom folder (i.e. C:\WIN31) and run it from "Command Prompt Only" mode. It will be almost stable way to use 3.1 parallel with 95. But 3.1 still will be buggy as it is not designed to work with DOS 7.x. A third-party bootloader and a different FAT16 partition with MS-DOS 6.22 is a better thing.

2×Soviet ZX-Speccy, 1×MacIIsi, 1×086, 1×286, 2×386DX, 1×386SX, 2×486, 1×P54C, 7×P55C, 6×Slot1, 4×S370, 1×SlotA, 2×S462, ∞×Modern.

Reply 6 of 14, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I don't understand why folks insist on using boot managers when the operating systems can handle it for them.

Install DOS (and Windows 3.11), then install Windows 95 (preferably onto a different partition). This will guarantee different Windows directories; the only things that must reside on the first primary partition are the bootloader and startup files; Windows 95 will detect the DOS installation, and manage the different files for you. (Load previous version of MS-DOS in the startup menu).

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 7 of 14, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

^More than 15 years ago, I ran Win98SE as my day to day OS, but kept a copy of Windows 3.10 in a separate directory.
I ran that old copy of 3.10 from time to time, if required. Perhhaps it's just my memory, but I don't remember that I had such a trouble with it.
Maybe it was because I wasn't using FAT32 or because I had abandoned DOS 6.x already at that point. 😕

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 8 of 14, by ATauenis

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
dr_st wrote:

Windows 95 will detect the DOS installation, and manage the different files for you. (Load previous version of MS-DOS in the startup menu).

It is very unstable "boot manager". It simply renaming *.SYS and COMMAND.COM files, and then loading them. But in some cases the renaming operation may crash and user will lose system files. Also in some cases (mostly when the boot partition is formatted in FAT32) "Previous version of MS-DOS" is murdering the file system.

Jo22 wrote:

Maybe it was because I wasn't using FAT32 or because I had abandoned DOS 6.x already at that point.

May be 😀 .

2×Soviet ZX-Speccy, 1×MacIIsi, 1×086, 1×286, 2×386DX, 1×386SX, 2×486, 1×P54C, 7×P55C, 6×Slot1, 4×S370, 1×SlotA, 2×S462, ∞×Modern.

Reply 9 of 14, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
ATauenis wrote:
dr_st wrote:

Windows 95 will detect the DOS installation, and manage the different files for you. (Load previous version of MS-DOS in the startup menu).

It is very unstable "boot manager". It simply renaming *.SYS and COMMAND.COM files, and then loading them. But in some cases the renaming operation may crash and user will lose system files.

Sorry, but that's a lame excuse. Any application "may crash" and the user will lose system files. A simple renaming operation is far less likely to crash than most other things.

ATauenis wrote:

Also in some cases (mostly when the boot partition is formatted in FAT32) "Previous version of MS-DOS" is murdering the file system.

If "Previous version of MS-DOS" is DOS 6, then you must have a FAT16 partition, otherwise how did you install it in the first place? If your version of Win95 is pre-OSR2, then it also supports FAT16 only. If it's OSR2 or later (or Win98), then you can safely partition the drive to a FAT16 C: partition (up to 2GB) and FAT32 D: partition (remaining space), have Win3.11 on C: and Win9x on D:.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 10 of 14, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I think the same. But what happens if someone uses that "convert to FAT32" utility ?
Does the "previous DOS version" entry still how up in the boot menu after conversion ?
- I don't know about Widdows 95, but Win98SE had this utility.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 11 of 14, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

And what if you have your Awesome Third-Party Boot Manager (TM) and you use the "convert to FAT32" on the DOS partition?

If a user insists on doing something dumb without understanding, all bets are off.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 12 of 14, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Well, yes, that's a valid point. On the other hand, how are users supposed to know about these details ?
Using long file names does neither harm a FAT16 partition, nor a DOS 6.x installation, for example.
(In contrast to Windows for Workgroups 3.11, which uses an early form of VFAT by default.)

To some degree, Microsoft must have had taken a few precautions in that utility.
Either by not converting a partition containing an installaion of pre-MS-DOS 7.1,
by displaying a warning message or by removing that "previous DOS" entry from the boot menu.
That beeing said, I'm speaking under correction, since I have never really used that utility..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 13 of 14, by oeuvre

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
dr_st wrote:

And what if you have your Awesome Third-Party Boot Manager (TM) and you use the "convert to FAT32" on the DOS partition?

If a user insists on doing something dumb without understanding, all bets are off.

maybe the user likes his file systems like his women - FAT and 32

HP Z420 Workstation Intel Xeon E5-1620, 32GB, RADEON HD7850 2GB, SSD + HD, XP/7
ws90Ts2.gif

Reply 14 of 14, by CaelThunderwing

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

so.. heres what i've tried sofar the guide somehoew the Vibra's Dos Mode managers that setup the card buggeruploading into Windows 95. i walled off the unused 12GB of the drive formatted it FAT32, Installed WIN95 OSR2.5, and well... it works. what Doesnt work right now ... is Hiren's bootcd to load Any partition manager to switch what's hidden and whats not. (the system only has 20MB Ram, and all the partition managers the CD contains it tries to make a 30MB Ramdrive for it.)

so while it have it's drive in another system thats a Lil newer, i tried one bootmanager sofar to try booting between Win 3.1/Dos & 95, "Smart Boot manager" im kinda past a point w/ trying to keep partitions seperateby keeping the 95 one hiddenyet seeing if its possible to boot from it using a boot manager. SBM unhides it automaticly.

Now honestly im making this WAY more trouble than it's Worth right now. i know theres decent ISA /VESA video cards than whats in it right nowand using Windows 95 is going to be a Hastle w/ just a Cirrus Logic GD5428 (1MB VESA Card)

with some research looks like if i feel like shelling out some $$, i could expand the ram to possibly 64MB Ram (8x8MB 4x16 or 2x32 )but untill i get a better ISA videocard.. im questioning Why im going thru all this Heck just for it.

jesolo wrote:
OS/2's Boot Manager takes care of creating separate partitions for you, which you then set up separately via the normal installa […]
Show full quote
CaelThunderwing wrote:

as for a sperate partition w/o messing w/ the main primary partition, i dont know Ho wto install Windows 95 there w/o Exposing the Main partition. i use dto get away w/ 95& 98 by using Bootmagic in the day. but this would require me installing 95 first then 3.1 i guess?

OS/2's Boot Manager takes care of creating separate partitions for you, which you then set up separately via the normal installation process of each operating system.
However, as stated earlier, since you are using DDO software, this might cause problems if used in conjunction with a Boot Manager.

Another alternative is to use the XT-IDE BIOS, flash it onto an EEPROM chip and boot up via a network card with a boot ROM socket. That way, you don't have to use DDO software.

I can post a guide for that if you can find a network card with a boot ROM socket.

sadly while i have Network cards that i could flash they're all PCI and all motherboards i have that newish can address even the lowest 20GB Drive. so i would need to source a ISA Network card w/ one.