Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

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Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-04 @ 09:32

I pulled two of my PIII systems out of the closet recently. One system is a dual PIII-850 coppermine, the other is a dual PIII Tualatin 1.5 GHz. They run XP Pro SP3 with POS2009 updates.The last I updated was sometime in late 2016 on the Tualatin and early 2017 on the Coppermine. Since I had the systems out, I decided to let the Windows Update Service update both systems. Well, it seems there is some update or group of updates between late 2016 until now which is causing issues. The Win32 Services hangs with an unexpected error. The system doesn't work well now, like it is expecting some services to be running and is waiting for them to come alive. Update service doesn't work. Cannot really do anything. It boots, but even with automatic updates disabled, it spits out an "unexpected" Win32 error. I looked up the particular error on google, but it is so general that it can be anything.

During installation of automatic updates, the system seems to need to reboot a few times in sequence. This is not unexpected as there are over 2 years worth of updates. The following updates caused errors,

.NET Framework 3.0 - KB4338597
.NET Framework 2.0 - KB4014580
.NET Framework 2.0 - KB4054178
KB3163249

however I am uncertain if an update just prior to these is what was leading to the errors of later updates. As I have a P4 Prescott and an Opteron 185 receiving the same updates without error, I suspect some updates are requiring a CPU-specific hardware feature, e.g. SSE2 or SSE3, in which the PIII does not possess. I would have thought that the update process would have checked for this condition though.

Have any of you run into this issue and determined which update or updates are causing the problem? Two years worth of updates is a lot to go through one by one. I think there were 92 updates. I used a restore point to restore both systems back to the state just before running today's updates, so at least I'm back at square one.

The obvious idea is to not install those four KB updates, but I suspect there is more to it than that alone. I was thinking to first install all the Windows OS-specific updates. If OK, move onto .NET, Office, etc. If the issue is Windows OS-specific, break the updates into halves, and halves again until the faulty update is discovered. Very cumbersome though. Lots of restoring the system and trial and error. Anyone run into this issue and find the fault?
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby DosFreak » 2018-9-04 @ 09:35

I do know that XP POS updates as of this year started requiring SSE2. Can't remember the exact month though.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-04 @ 10:00

Gack. How does one virtualise SSE2? It is mentioned but not elaborated on in this KB article, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... -kb4088875

I'm wondering if anything from February 16th and later requires SSE2. I think the date of no return is around there. But possibly as late as June.

Also wondering if Office updates are affected...
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby DosFreak » 2018-9-04 @ 14:23

According to the Internets it's August 2018 and newer that require SSE2, before that should be fine. Unknown if SSE2 is required for non-security updates.

https://msfn.org/board/topic/171814-pos ... p-sp3-enu/
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby bjwil1991 » 2018-9-04 @ 15:34

I need to check my 2 Inspiron 600m notebooks and ThinkPad R40 to make sure they have the SSE2 instruction set. My Windows 98SE has the SSE2 instruction set (Athlon 64 3000+)
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-04 @ 17:22

Oh, nice find indeed. I guess you are referring to these two posts:

DELL Latitude C400. Pentium III M 866. XP SP3 hack POSReady. Video Intel 830M. After installing KB4343674 several programs are blocked: Process Tamer, Auslogics Disk Defrag...

KB4340937 also needs SSE2 and in PIII it produces errors when installing or uninstalling programs.

Edited August 16 by wyxchari



Since August 2018, Windows XP POSReady updates require SSE2 and no such requirement is notified.
The last valid updates for SSE processors were those of July 2018.

Edited August 24 by wyxchari


I guess I'll need to experiment some to determine if Office updates are affected. It would be nice to pinpoint at exactly which update to cease and desist. Perhaps it is as the user metioned, KB4340937.

Found this interesting and am looking forward to the new moon.

I will continue using XP after April 2019 even if I do not have updates. The most important thing for security is the browser and I use one for XP that is updated approximately every month: Mypal 27.9.4 (oldrac, Pale Moon based) https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal/releases

Other browsers for XP that are updated weekly: http://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/search/label/browser

New Palemoon 27 (New Moon, Feodor2's patches based "Mypal") Also versions SSE or noSSE.
KM-Goanna (KMeleon)
Firfox 45ESR SSE (Nightly, Mozilla based)
Basilik 52/UXP (Serpent, Basilisk based)
PM28XP (New Moon, Pale Moon based, pre-release)

Edited August 26 by wyxchari
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby KCompRoom2000 » 2018-9-04 @ 21:14

bjwil1991 wrote:I need to check my 2 Inspiron 600m notebooks and ThinkPad R40 to make sure they have the SSE2 instruction set. My Windows 98SE has the SSE2 instruction set (Athlon 64 3000+)

I believe both of those laptops have CPUs with SSE2 support. The Dell Inspiron 600m has a Pentium M CPU and the IBM Thinkpad R40 has a Pentium 4-M (Northwood) CPU - both of which support SSE2, so you should be good to go. For future reference, the latest Intel CPU to lack SSE2 is the Tualatin Pentium III. All Pentium 4s (including the Willamette which oddly enough came out sooner than Tualatin) and Pentium Ms have SSE2.

feipoa wrote:Gack. How does one virtualise SSE2? It is mentioned but not elaborated on in this KB article, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... -kb4088875

I'm guessing what Microsoft meant was that some hypervisors could (in theory) be configured to use a CPUID flag for a CPU without SSE2 and anyone who has a Windows 7 virtual machine with SSE2 disabled should enable that function in order to make the updates work again. I've never heard of a hypervisor with the ability to not emulate SSE2 and other CPU instructions (does QEMU count?) but hey, better safe than sorry. I don't think they meant that SSE2 could be "virtualized" on a CPU without support for said instruction (I haven't heard of anyone doing this).

Anyway, I'm honestly not surprised that SSE2 is now a requirement for POSReady 2009 XP updates since Microsoft started enforcing that requirement for Windows 7 updates back in June of this year. I wonder if Windows Server 2008 (not R2) updates are affected since that still gets updates as its support ends on the same day as Windows 7 unlike its consumer counterpart known as Windows Vista whose support was dropped last year.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby DosFreak » 2018-9-04 @ 22:09

Think bochs can emulate SSE2 on a non-SSE2 CPU or mabye vice versa. Unknown if qemu can do the same.

Virtualization or emulation would definetly make it easier to test the updates but for virtualization I don't know if masking SSE2 in the cpuid would be sufficent for this purpose or not.

https://www.berrange.com/posts/2018/06/ ... x86-hosts/
http://vknowledge.net/2014/04/17/how-to ... -os-cpuid/

Mabye using objdump on the executable and search for the instructions but not sure if that would easily work with Windows updates:
https://superuser.com/questions/726395/ ... x-on-linux
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-05 @ 00:17

Would emulating SSE2 on a Tualatin be painfully slow? Is it anything like how a 386 CPU emulates an FPU?

In all likelihood, I will probably locate the latest updates for SSE1 and quit involvement. August 2018 isn't all that far away from the April 2019 deadline for POS2009 updates. To avoid negative press, I would have just stuck with SSE1-only for a few months longer. Makes me wonder if Microsoft snuck in the SSE2 requirement deliberately, that is, as a means to remind everyone that "Time's Up!" No check for SSE2 is pretty oblivious, so I suspect it is either deliberate, or possibly an accident of convenience.

I still see computers in public using XP. There was a terminal at the drug store the other day which had the XP screen saver. I recently saw the register at Canadian Tire being booted with POS2009. Last year, hospital computers were running XP.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby dr_st » 2018-9-05 @ 07:04

Geez, talking about beating a dead horse.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-05 @ 07:25

Yeah, no kidding. I remember a similar issue with XP not working properly on my K6-III system with updates. Perhaps related to updates requiring SSE.

I'm beginning the process of determining which KB's will not work. Going to install everything (.NET, Security Updates, and Office) from July 2018 and older. It is a bit laborious because 75% of the KB's don't have a date listed in the Automatic Updates list. Need to click on each URL to find the date. If works, create a restore point, then move onto dangerous ground with August 2018 Office updates.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-06 @ 04:38

Today's date is Sept 5, 2018. After installing all up until July 31, 2018, the following items are left listed in Automatic Updates with an August 2018 distribution date:

.NET Framework 2.0 KB4344180
POS2009 Security Update KB4340937
POS2009 Security Update KB4343674
POS2009 Security Update KB4344104
Internet Explorer 8 Update KB4343205
Office Compatibility Pack SP3 KB4032212
Office Compatibility Pack Office Viewers KB4022195

Without these updates, the system appears to run fine. Created restore point. Installed the Office updates. Tried creating Excel and Office documents, saving, fine. Created Office and Excel 2010 documents on another computer and opened them on the PIII, which has Office 2003 installed, the XLSX and DOCX files open, edit, and save fine. Goofed around in the menus a bit, no error. So those Office KB's may be alright to install.

I do not plan on testing the other 5 KB updates. Maybe one works, maybe two? Maybe none. Next month there will be more anyway which surely won't work, so, this seems like a good point to stop testing. Dosfreak, thanks a lot for your comments. That saved me a lot of time.
Last edited by feipoa on 2018-9-07 @ 08:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby nd22 » 2018-9-06 @ 09:35

All office updates are fine with any SSE1 CPU however Windows updates is another matter and these will no longer install after august 2018 on SSE1 - only systems.
Even some of those from august have problems:
1. KB4340937 needs SSE2
2. KB4343674 blocks programs form running correctly including those from Adobe
3. all updates related to net framework all versions!
Microsoft could have kept the wheel running for those without SSE2 until April 2019 - only 8 months to go but hey let's get everyone to upgrade for the sake of upgrading!!
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-06 @ 09:51

Are you saying that some Windows Updates from August are fine? KB4344104 maybe? Any idea about Internet Explorer 8 Update KB4343205? How about Windows Media Player 11 updates? I don't think there are any from after 31 July 2018 though.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby nd22 » 2018-9-06 @ 14:58

Yes they are fine! I installed some of them and they work just fine, the system is as responsive as before. We are talking about a SSE1 only system: Athlon XP 3200.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-06 @ 22:35

Yes, SSE1-only. Did you take note of which updates from August 2018 worked?
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby nd22 » 2018-9-07 @ 09:26

internet explorer update works fine; also working: kb4344104, kb4339284, office 2003 update.
NOT working: net framework updates; KB4340937, KB4343674
From what I understand all future updates will require SSE2 so my athlon xp 3200 has just got the final batch of updates.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-07 @ 09:48

Just two updates so far then. I'll give 'em a go. (Edit: They worked on all my PIII's and Via C3 Nehemiah). My PIII's are going through mass updates now. It's the end of the line.
Last edited by feipoa on 2018-9-08 @ 08:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby feipoa » 2018-9-07 @ 11:11

Do you know if you've installed .NET Framework 2.0 Service pack something... KB4344180? It is from August 2018.
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Re: Recent WinXP/POS2009 update causes errors with PIII systems

Postby nd22 » 2018-9-16 @ 04:54

ALL net framework updates require SSE2 starting from august 2018 so no I could not installed KB4344180!
September 2018 updates:
ALL net framework updates will NO longer install on SSE1 processor.
Internet explorer update installed just fine!
Office compatibility pack: I do NOT use it so I can not possibly know!
Windows updates:
kb4338381 installed just fine!
kb4457163 installed just fine!
kb4458000 testing FAILED!
kb4458001 installed just fine!
kb4458003 installed just fine!
kb4458006 installed just fine!
kb4458318 installed just fine!
Last edited by nd22 on 2018-9-16 @ 15:02, edited 1 time in total.
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