VOGONS


First post, by feipoa

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Yes, you read that right - I write SSE and not SSE2. There was a point, perhaps around 4 years ago, at which running Windows XP updates on my AMD K6-III-500 and Cyrix MII-433 systems caused it to no longer boot. I had to restore these systems from backup clone HDDs.

Does anyone know what the dates are for the latest available XP Pro KB updates for non-SSE systems? This doesn't seem to be a very popular search result compared to the SSE2 requirement earlier this year.

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Reply 1 of 16, by Clardake

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Although I still use older systems on relatively recent OS, I've never been aware about a SSE1 CPU requirements for any Microsoft updates.

You wrote "perhaps about 4 years ago". The support of Windows XP Home/Pro was dropped in early 2014. So I suppose your problem is related to Embedded/POSReady updates.

Moreover, your problem may be due to another factor (not the lack of SSE). When the SP3 for XP was released in 2008, some AMD users encountered trouble at startup. That bug was later fixed. Maybe there is a problem between some updates and other things you've installed on your AMD K6-III-500 and Cyrix MII-433 systems. Even XP SP2, which was released in 2004, didn't like some apps or drivers. Security enhancements can break the compatibility with some older programs. If you have clone HDDs, you can easily identify which update causes problems: gradually install updates (from the older to the newer ones) until you get the boot issue.

Reply 2 of 16, by feipoa

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Clardake wrote:

Although I still use older systems on relatively recent OS, I've never been aware about a SSE1 CPU requirements for any Microsoft .

This is probably because almost nobody would have been running a K6-III on XP this late in the course of time - something you've already alluded to.

I don't recall if I applied the POS2009 patch to these two systems. I suspect not. I hadn't updated these systems since around 2012, so sometime in 2014 I would have been applying 1 or 2 years worth of past updates. So, I suspect somewhere in the timeline, some updates required SSE. Perhaps .NET, I don't know. The issue occurred right after the Windows updates.

I never had any issue with any of the installed programs after installing SP3. The systems probably ran slower though. Seems like they the OS requires a lot of RAM. The MII-433 fared better as it has 512 MB, while the K6-III no as well, which has 256 MB. Both are RAM maximised.

It is so slow installing XP updates on these systems that I'm not patient enough to go through the process. I was hoping that someone knew the start date of failing updates and I would update until that point.

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Reply 3 of 16, by Clardake

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Almost nobody still uses a Pentium III or Athlon XP, especially on POSReady or Windows 7. However, some people (including myself) have noticed the problem related to the recent updates on both operating systems if the computer hasn't a SSE2-compliant processor.

feipoa wrote:

So, I suspect somewhere in the timeline, some updates required SSE. Perhaps .NET, I don't know.

Maybe your problem is related to .NET ? Depending on version, its hardware requirements are much higher than Windows XP itself.

According to Microsoft himself, Windows XP requires a 233 MHz processor and 64 MB RAM.
source: http://web.archive.org/web/20070214073902/htt … t.com/kb/314865

For .Net Framework 2.0, released in 2005, the official minimum is a 400 MHz processor and 96 MB RAM.
source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480 … x#ndp2_p_topic1

The last for XP, .Net Framework 4.0, released in 2010, is intended for a Pentium 1 GHz with 512 MB RAM.
source: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=186763

I've suggested you reinstall Windows XP SP3 and the operating system hotfixes only. Do not install .Net Framework and keep the original versions of Media Player, Internet Explorer... Then, install other programs you want to determine why you experienced issue.

* * *

Finally, it's possible your problem is not related to SSE but any other instruction (AMD K6-3 can be seen as an enhanced 586 processor, and some P6 instructions can be missing in Cyrix MII-433. Perhaps you didn't experience any problem if you used an Intel Pentium Pro or a Pentium II, two i686 processors without SSE).

EDIT: someone has tested all system updates for XP SP3 on a Pentium 200 MHz MMX

PPeti66x wrote:
Because some people had problems with the new XP updates on non-SSE-2 CPUs, I made a big test and installed WinXP SP3 and all up […]
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Because some people had problems with the new XP updates on non-SSE-2 CPUs, I made a big test and installed WinXP SP3 and all updates (up to October 10, 2018 from catalog update) on my old 200 MHz Pentium-1 computer (P5 architecture with MMX support). .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 was installed, but not updated nor tested. Windows Media Player was not updated to v10 or v11 and Windows Search 4.0 was not installed.

The results are:

- Everything installed fine

- System booted up correctly

- Some updates failed to work due to SSE-2 requirement:

kb4340937 (august, 2018) - msi.dll (and may be msihnd.dll and msiexec.exe)

kb4343674 (august, 2018) - gdiplus.dll only

kb4458000 (september, 2018) - gdiplus.dll only

kb4462987 (october, 2018) - gdiplus.dll only

So the new gdiplus.dll and Windows Installer updates should be skipped on non-SSE-2 CPUs.

But not all installed files are executed by the system by default, so SSE(2) requirement of some of the other files is unknown. e.g. msvidc.dll, t2embed.dll, mf3216.dll, msxml3.dll, msxml6.dll, mrx*, MS JET files should be tested. MS JET seems to be compiled with MSVC12 (which is very uncommon for Windows XP files) - and most of (may be all) MSVC12 compiled applications I used required SSE-2.

source: http://msfn.org/board/topic/171814-posready-2 … comment=1155557

Reply 4 of 16, by feipoa

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Has anybody else tested for this case? Which POS2009 XP updates won't work on pre-SSE CPUs? I'm setting up my Athlon slot A. The AMD Catalyst drivers require .NET 2.0, so I intend to install its updates.

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Reply 5 of 16, by maxtherabbit

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When I set up my dual PPro XP machine (with POSReady updates), I simply followed the guidelines on the MSFN thread for avoiding SSE2 updates and it worked fine. AFAIK there are no "SSE1" updates

Reply 6 of 16, by feipoa

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Alright, I'm going to give it a go. Unfortunately, I couldn't clone the drive before setting up POS2009 updates. Norton Ghost 2003 spits up an odd error that I haven't seen before.

Bad block(s) encountered on read: 0x1, drive:0, 1 sectors starting from absolute sector 0

I'm guessing it is complaining about the boot sector, although chkdsk /r doesn't find any errors. I don't want to run fdisk /mbr because I think it will wipe out the boot loader. I made a restore point and am copying all the partitions files into a folder on the W2K partition. Will also export the registry to a file.

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Reply 7 of 16, by matze79

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Had no problem with XP on non SSE Machines.

Only with Net Framework and some Runtimes.

XP itself runs with latest Update Pack from Winfuture containing all Updates since Support End.
Even on Pentium MMX.

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Reply 8 of 16, by feipoa

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How 'bout on non-Pentiums though? The issues I had in the past was on a K6-III and a Cyrix MII. And I'm testing out on an original Athlon now.

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Reply 11 of 16, by feipoa

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Can Acronis clone HDD's whereby it just looks at the data size rather than the whole HDD size (used + unused space)? I remember having issues with Clonezilla when I wanted to clone a HDD or partition onto a smaller HDD/partition, which works fine in Ghost provided that the destination drive has enough free space for the data to be written.

I have Acronis version 12, but it requires SSE. The Athlon does not support full SSE.

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Reply 13 of 16, by feipoa

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OK, so I have updated my Slot A Athlon in accordance with my SSE1 notes and it appears to be working without any errors in the Event Viewer. These were my notes:

For SSE1 based CPUs using XP Pro SP3 w/POS2009 updates, you can install all .NET, IE8, Office, etc updates until 31 July 2018.

Starting August 2018:

Do not install any .NET updates, e.g. 4344180, 4462774, 4457058, 4457046, etc.
Do not install Office 2010 update KB4461522
Do not install WES09/POSReady2009 updates: KB4343674, KB4340937, KB4458000, KB4462987, KB4473077, KB4486464, KB4487085, KB4490385, KB4494528, KB4495022

I don't think I have the nerve to try this on my K6-III or Cyrix MII. It didn't work in the past - the system would hang on the Windows XP boot screen. Has anyone else confirmed that the K6 an a 430TX or MII on a VIA MVP3 will work with updates from 2014 thru 2019?

What is interesting about the Athlon Slot A system is that it will hang on booting XP when the system first turns on after sitting overnight. I need to reset it for it to boot XP. This problem doesn't occur with W2K, NT4, or Win98SE.

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Reply 14 of 16, by nd22

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I just assembled a non-SSE socket 462 machine and installed Windows XP on it yesterday.
First the specs:
Athlon 1400C
Abit KG7-raid
PQI 2*1gb DDR-266
Geforce3
Samsung 60gb
IDE DVDRW
FSP 350w with 30A on 5V rail!
XP installed just fine and all updates up to April 2014 also installed without errors so Windows update is working OK. Now I have quite a lot of software to test to see how it will work with this machine but at first glance it is very responsive and did not throws any errors. This evening I will test Office 2003 and net framework 4.0

Reply 15 of 16, by feipoa

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nd22 wrote on 2020-06-18, 08:48:
I just assembled a non-SSE socket 462 machine and installed Windows XP on it yesterday. First the specs: Athlon 1400C Abit KG7- […]
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I just assembled a non-SSE socket 462 machine and installed Windows XP on it yesterday.
First the specs:
Athlon 1400C
Abit KG7-raid
PQI 2*1gb DDR-266
Geforce3
Samsung 60gb
IDE DVDRW
FSP 350w with 30A on 5V rail!
XP installed just fine and all updates up to April 2014 also installed without errors so Windows update is working OK. Now I have quite a lot of software to test to see how it will work with this machine but at first glance it is very responsive and did not throws any errors. This evening I will test Office 2003 and net framework 4.0

How about install updates until May 2019 after setting the registry flag for a POS2009 system?

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Reply 16 of 16, by nd22

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I installed Office 2003, Net framework 4.0 with all updates up to 2014 just fine.
After I installed the POS2009 registry change the Windows updates up to August 2018 installed without problems but Net framework 3.X and 4.0 updates started throwing errors immediately; I did not encountered any problems with 2.0 updates up to August 2018.
Adobe reader XI also works just fine.
The system was further tested with 3dmark 99/2001/2001: all ran without problems. Diablo 2 1.12 played OK. However the resolution patch forces you to use software rendering and the games becomes unplayable beyond 1024*768.