Software
Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

This is certainly not the right forum for your questions. And I mean Vogons in general.

Hello again! I never know what you are talking about... My notebook is 13 years old, 512MB, 80GB hd, OS is XP SP3. This should be old enough for Vogons. It's OK for me if you don't know anything about Tor, but there is nothing wrong in asking things about free software that can be downloaded virtually everywhere and might give my antique machine some extra-kick. Pls don't destroy this thread by posting irrelevant stuff. Have a nice day!

P.S.: Did you solve FQ2 at last?

Edit, a suggestion for the forum-architect(s): Re. software there is only "old on new" and "old on old". Here are many discussions about modern software = browsers etc. which should be in a section "new on old" - which is still missing...

Wonkothesane wrote:

Hello, until recently i was Tricia McMillan, the irresponsible MyPal-surfer who is online with XP and continousely trying to pep […]
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Hello, until recently i was Tricia McMillan, the irresponsible MyPal-surfer who is online with XP and continousely trying to pep-up his/her beloved notebook-grandpa with fresh software.

Different mainstream sites offer pre-configured Firefox-Tor-bundles, even for XP. As Tor is en vogue and somehow obscure (to me) i'm wondering if it makes sense to experiment with it. E.g. Chip (a well known german magazine) claims "Dl Tor, clickediclick, and you're surfing 100% anon. Before doing (or believing) this, i got several questions that are not answered in wikipedia:

In media Tor is usually mentioned in the context with the so-called darknet. That is like comparing apples and pears, two different pairs of shoes, no? Apart from getting closer to the market for bazookas, happy pills etc., simple IP-tracking from google & co becomes impossible, right? Is there any other advantage (or disadvantage) re. security? Wikipedia says that there are as few as 2.000.000 users in the world, that makes less than 0.1% of all onliners. If Tor is that good and/or easy, everybody should use it? I've read that it's slow, due to the encryption. Slower than normal http*S*-surfing? Do i need a fast connection/broadband? Running the proxies must cost a lot of $$$, why is it free, resp. who is operating the network? Will it really work on my 512MB notebook?

Thanks in advance for some advice!

Hi there!

Tor is a browser that comes configured to use the tor network. The way that it works is your traffic is encrypted to a tor node, that relays to another tor node, that may relay a few more times before it reaches the server you are communicating with. The same is true in reverse (download). By default tor disables javascript, browser plugins, and cookies, along with a few other things, to make you as anonymous and untrackable as possible.

The downside to all of that is a big loss in performance and the inconveniences of having all these features disabled. So memorize your passwords and be prepared to relogin often.

A better long term solution would be to use linux, IMO. Even if tor can make your browser secure, there are still concerns about your OS. Something like bodhi linux aught to run pretty well on a netbook from 2009.

One last thing, it is a lot easier to read posts if it kind of gets to the point. The humorous interjections and speculating are a bit distracting 😀.

The point of tor is to conceal/anonymize traffic. Whether it does that reliably has always been questionable in my mind. Government funding was used in the development of tor, for one thing. And you don't know who is running the exit nodes. Someone who controls enough exit nodes can effectively monitor your traffic.

For practical purposes, it is inherently slow because of the extra hops that packets must traverse. If I'm not mistaken, IPs of known exit nodes are also blacklisted by some websites.

mothergoose729 wrote:

... a lot easier to read posts if it kind of gets to the point. The humorous interjections and speculating are a bit distracting 😀.

Thanks! There is not "the point", in fact i know nothing about Tor and (therefore) stated a dozen questions. My experience - or "feeling" - is, that i shoud try to make comprehensible why i ask something. It's more polite. Examples (like the bazookas) are to clarify my concern. I described my laptop because a) on vogons is a certain security "expert" that freaks out re. surfing with XP b) to stress that i'm interested in Tor on XP only (and not on Linux). edit: I try to break my questions down:

- Can i use Tor with my old XP-system?
- Should i use Tor for surfing the *normal* www?
- Is there some risk other than the usual = catching keyloggers, malware etc?
- Is Tor a kind of "project" or is it established = stable.
- If the last node is unencrypted, does it make sense at all?
- Who is financing all the proxies?

Wonkothesane wrote:

- Can i use Tor with my old XP-system? - Should i use Tor for surfing the *normal* www? - Is there some risk other than the usua […]
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- Can i use Tor with my old XP-system?
- Should i use Tor for surfing the *normal* www?
- Is there some risk other than the usual = catching keyloggers, malware etc?
- Is Tor a kind of "project" or is it established = stable.
- If the last node is unencrypted, does it make sense at all?
- Who is financing all the proxies?

-Yes
-Up to you
-I don't know. It is reasonable to assume that XP may be vulnerable in ways that modern OS are not.
-It has been around for a long time
-Yes, bouncing the traffic around obfuscates traffic on both ends; the user, and the content they are consuming.
-It's a volunteer service

Tor's purpose is not to make XP more safe to use on the internet, although security is a concern because it is another vector of attack for exposing the identity and location of the user (that is, Tor browser addresses it specifically but for different reasons).

Tor will not protect your PC from malware, and it will not protect you from exploits in other applications like adobe or java; the latest versions of which are not always available in XP, and these earlier versions may have their own unpatched vulnerabilities. I don't know of any, but there might be browser and flash exploits that were patched at the OS level. In any event, Tor won't make XP as secure as a modern OS. You should install another OS instead if you plan to do anything sensitive on your netbook. I recommend linux because some distros use a lot less memory and processing power than windows 10.

https://2019.www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en
https://www.bodhilinux.com/

Wonkothesane wrote:

Thanks! There is not "the point", in fact i know nothing about Tor and (therefore) stated a dozen questions. My experience - or […]
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mothergoose729 wrote:

... a lot easier to read posts if it kind of gets to the point. The humorous interjections and speculating are a bit distracting 😀.

Thanks! There is not "the point", in fact i know nothing about Tor and (therefore) stated a dozen questions. My experience - or "feeling" - is, that i shoud try to make comprehensible why i ask something. It's more polite. Examples (like the bazookas) are to clarify my concern. I described my laptop because a) on vogons is a certain security "expert" that freaks out re. surfing with XP b) to stress that i'm interested in Tor on XP only (and not on Linux). edit: I try to break my questions down:

- Can i use Tor with my old XP-system?
- Should i use Tor for surfing the *normal* www?
- Is there some risk other than the usual = catching keyloggers, malware etc?
- Is Tor a kind of "project" or is it established = stable.
- If the last node is unencrypted, does it make sense at all?
- Who is financing all the proxies?

There is a ton of information on the Tor web site on how it works and why it exists.
It's well documented. You can use a bootable linux to use it and keep your existing beloved XP installation. 512megs should be fine but if you can add more it's a good idea. At least a gig. Basicly any mainstream linux dritro that supports your system should be fine. I use Debian 8 on my P166MMX with 256megs and 8meg video card.

Wikipedia tends to put a but of a spin on things so wouldn't rely on that as a reputable source of reliable information.

Thanks mothergoose729, thanks Caluser2000! This is what i needed. Sure there are countless infos on www, i surfed around like mad. I don't trust neither the Tor-guys nor the commercial sites. They just want to sell, most infos are shallow (sketchily?). The PC-mags seem get their very own *experience* by copy+paste from other articles that were copied+pasted before. And sure, XP is insecure, old-fashioned etc. but i'm old-fashioned, too. Although i like mint, linux is a different world, even a install besides XP it would change the "character" of my system (yahyah, me stupid). Thanks once more!

If you don't internet bank or share intimate personal details, credit cards details, not networked to another system while on line and always keep an image of the original clean indstall you really wont have too much issues imho. Just do weekly malware scans and if a major issue pops up just reload your known good image. I've known Win 98 folk who do just that.

derSammler wrote:

Software
Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

This is certainly not the right forum for your questions. And I mean Vogons in general.

Why not? There are plenty of people who can get things done on an old machines and have the knowledge.

winuser_pl wrote:

derSammler wrote:

Software
Getting old software/games running on older hardware.

This is certainly not the right forum for your questions. And I mean Vogons in general.

Why not? There are plenty of people who can get things done on an old machines and have the knowledge.

And keeping that knowledge is useful. You never know when some computer consultent will pop in to ask a question about a PS/2 system running a bunch of weaving looms in middle america using Dos/Windows 2.0 and pattern software.... It's happened at vcfed.org. Or an Amiga system still operating an air conditioning system in some old corporate building.. Also happened. Or Acorn based OmniBus set up still controlling trams......

OK, this is what i did: It was harder than expected to find a XP-Tor-browser, the download-links (also for older versions) i googled redirect to the current version on Tor-project (min. OS = Win 7). Here is an exception, it looks like a clean FFox 52.9 (the youngest for XP):

https://www.filepuma.com/download/tor_browser_7.5.6-19270/ (i have no idea who filepuma is, probably there are better known sites)

Install + start, click on "download the nodelist" and ... 2 screenies:

It seems to work. The IP-address changes either by clicking on the upper left onion or when restarting the browser. When checking with some 3rd party they state a "Tor exit node" and a (changing) company which is not my ISP.

When disabeling the Tor-settings-addon, the "browser is outdated" warning disappears. Then it looks like a "normal" FFox, but is still on Tor. The only disadvantage is, that you can't change the IP-address on the fly no more. In about:config i deleted all mozilla-links re. updates or error-reporting, they are obsolete ("update your system!"), the same goes for google "safebrowsing".

I tried to install ublock and other .xpi that work with a standard FFox 52.9, but they were rejected as "file is probably corrupted". Edit: This is caused by a bug in all FFoxes that use pre-web-extensions: Mozilla had failed to update the certs = on May 4th 2019 all extensions became invalid. To solve this set about:config xpinstall.signatures.required to false.

My computer has too little RAM for a (more or less) modern FFox, and i won't manage to combine the Tor-portion of the bundle with MyPal, so i think i forget about the fine-tuning and treat this *project* as finished... unless i get a sudden inspiration on what to do with my brand-new Tor in general.

2 edits = some more info, forgot to mention: The install doesn't copy anything to system32 and doesn't use the registry.

Good effort.

Caluser2000 wrote:

Good effort.

Not really, but thanks for you tips! I never trust the self-praising infos on www, so i better ask real people. I'm not convinced that Tor is trustable, it sounds too good to be true. "Alice" may be invisible for "Bob", but you have to rely on "Postman Pat". Encrypted or not, the Tor-guys know your real IP and your html-request. If i was NSA or CIA, i'd operate the nodes and feed my ultra-peta-flops-quantum-decrypter with the traffic. OK, i stop blabbering now and pet my cool Mr.Anon-XP-laptop for a while...

I received this private message, i think i should make it public:
--------------------------
Hello, moderator here

Sent: 2019-10-02 @ 05:29
From: Stiletto
To: Wonkothesane
Hello, moderator here!

Any reason why you shouldn't be banned for creating multiple accounts, asking incessantly about a game called "F*ck Quest" (like, are you thirteen?), and then also asking about Tor?

Highly suspicious, as though you are preparing to troll and grief this forum.
--------------------------
As i may be banned from now on (OMG!) i better reply soon:
a) Multiple accounts: When checking them, you'll see that i haven't posted anything on the old nicks. I never tried to conceal (veil?) who i was before, the new one is no sock-puppet. The email i used when signing in no longer exists (so doesn't the one of "Wonkothesane"). I am a little slow, but by now i've learned, that (why?) one needs a working email address to change the password and such. So my old accounts are "pending" = uselesss.
b) FQ 1 and 2 (in fact, it's two games) are DOS, they are games, they are Freeware, they are on archive, and - imho - they are fun, creative and worth to be conserved... You may find them tasteless or crude, but that is an opinion others don't have to share. There are tons of games out there that are worse. What's the problem? (I'm not 13 but young at heart.)
c) I wasn't asking about Tor. I was asking about Tor on XP. XP is old. Whereelse should one get accurate infos about XP-stuff if not on Vogons? Secondly: What's wrong with Tor? Obscure darknet blahblah? I'm experimenting with whatever i find interesting and happy as hell (this is a metaphor) if i get someting new going.
d) As you can see in the "Tor" and "Mypal is the best browser"-threads (there are more), i'm not only asking but also answering - when i can. As i'm no IT- or DOS-expert, in 90% of all cases i will ask but answer, sorry.

a+b+c+d) If my rudimentary english doesn't fool me, i'm always polite, never insulting and i don't tell other people their do's and don'ts. (There are other users who try to.) Vogons claims to be a technical forum. This should mean it's free from moral, religion, politics, ideology etc. If you got a different opinion, it's up to you. In that case pls delete everythig i "contributed".

Last but not least: Have a nice day! (This includes everybody, even my "best friend"!)

Wonkothesane wrote:

I received this private message, i think i should make it public

Bad form to post PM. It was sent private for a reason so communicate with that person in private.

Please stop acting so immature, this isn't reddit. You're hopefully better than that.

Closed since this is yet another ridiculous thread and the topic is solved.