ShovelKnight wrote:

Lazar81 wrote:

Lotus III - Not working with every memory manager in DOS 6.22, yet not tested in 7.1

Dune 2 runs perfectly on my retro machine with DOS 7.1 (Windows 98SE) and UMBPCI in pure DOS mode.

It also runs perfectly with EMM386.EXE for that matter.

What sound configs do you have. I am using Roland mt-32 with speech. This is more demanding then other sound options

jaZz_KCS wrote:

The fact that he has problems emerging when switching from DOS6 to DOS7 without any other changes surely proofs otherwise.

The fact that when asked he provided just a single such example (Dune II) which others (ShovelKnight, myself) know to be working under DOS 7.1 (Win98 SE) suggests that... maybe not?

It's not like we know what actual difference there are between his configurations.

Lazar81 wrote:

Lotus III - Not working with every memory manager in DOS 6.22, yet not tested in 7.1

Lotus III has known problems with fast CPUs. If that is your issue, there may be a fix: Re: Gameport devices changing PC speed?

Not sure about the others - as I said "Dune 2" works for me, but I don't have an MT-32, just a general MIDI wavetable card. I haven't tried 'Beneath a Steel Sky'.

dr_st wrote:

Lotus III has known problems with fast CPUs. If that is your issue, there may be a fix: Re: Gameport devices changing PC speed?

Not sure about the others - as I said "Dune 2" works for me, but I don't have an MT-32, just a general MIDI wavetable card. I haven't tried 'Beneath a Steel Sky'.

I'm aware of the speed sensitivity of Lotus III and my version is patched already. So this is no speed problem - otherwise it wouldn't run in any DOS version with any memory manager.

Id consider xmgr + umbpci to be very esoteric. if stuff breaks under these between dos versions, shrug. they aint MS apps. now if games stopped working with himem+emm386 between 6.22 + 7, thats different.

umbpci is very very picky and chipsets and how it works.

Microsoft fully supported 7.1 to be 100% functional in real DOS mode giving the end user options to both boot to DOS using F8 and restart in MS DOS mode. Just becasue it was bundled with 98 does not mean it was never intended to be fully function DOS supported by Microsoft it just was not sold separately.

The reason it can boot 9X has nothing to do with it being fully functional DOS, and has everything to do with antitrust, and unfair business practices to put DR-DOS and other DOS out of business. 🤣 Just like everything else Microsoft did in the 90s like bundling internet explorer with windows to put Netscape out of business. 🤣

Little History Lesson for you. 😘

Dune 2 runs perfect for me in DOS7.1 with QEMM.

Shagittarius wrote:

Dune 2 runs perfect for me in DOS7.1 with QEMM.

What sound configs do you have for dune 2

OK... Don't know what i have done but Dune 2 runs with Roland and Speech in 7.1.. Using HIMEM and EMM386

Edit: perhaps it was setting up the correct audio config again in 7.1... maybe maybe.. 😀

Lazar81 wrote:

What is UMM03?

Similar to UMBPCI, but it is open-sourced and public domain. I added chipset codes to enable upper memory regions. It only has 64 bytes base memory footprint and CPU remains in real-mode.

Lazar81 wrote:

Hello,
Hope this isn't going to be to controversial. I just opened a new thread on memory problems with some drivers in dos 7.1. I solved these problems but that's it. I have no game here that wouldn't run at least as smooth as it does in dos 6.22. I made this stand-alone dos 7.1 version because I thought it would give me some advantages over 6.22. Until now I can't see any pros except the higher HDD capacity. Why should one consider staying with 7.1 when 6.22 does the job so well?

My pure dos PC is running 6.22 because it just feels right with Windows 3.11
Every other PC has some version of Win9x so installing 6.22 makes no sense as I haven't run into any compatibility issues.

My rigs are pure gaming machines so don't see the need for "serious software" like Qemm, disk utilities, etc. I know things like Fat32 confuse them and cause problems

Other reason I'm a fan of 7 is the better memory management as per mdgx site krcroft linked before and Fat32

but don't think it's controversial question, maybe if your running Win9x on the same PC, but it's just personal choice.

Side note mdgx also has a page to dos 6 tweak as well
http://www.mdgx.com/mem6.htm

chinny22 wrote:

Other reason I'm a fan of 7 is the better memory management as per mdgx site krcroft linked before

How is it better? MDGX site just doesn't have an example of umbpci + dos 6.22. It does work and gives same result.

GigAHerZ wrote:

chinny22 wrote:

Other reason I'm a fan of 7 is the better memory management as per mdgx site krcroft linked before

How is it better? MDGX site just doesn't have an example of umbpci + dos 6.22. It does work and gives same result.

I've never noticed umbpci was missing! (My only Dos 6 PC is a 486 VLB so irrelevant and would have skipped it anyway)
But if that is the casue of the better numbers for dos7 vs 6 on MDGX then I stand corrected and take that off advantages list.

I have better luck with 6.22 myself. Something seems off about that unofficial 7.1 release to me.

Best DOS memory performance though belongs to FreeDOS for me. Friggin Quake runs comfortably in that setup on my DX4-100.

Actually, there is one advantage in Dos 7+: The EDIT program has reasonable keyboard shortcuts with CTRL+C and CTRL+V and it can open multiple documents and switch between them. But you can just take the edit program from DOS 7+ and then put it in your DOS 6.22 system. 😀

GigAHerZ wrote:

Actually, there is one advantage in Dos 7+: The EDIT program has reasonable keyboard shortcuts with CTRL+C and CTRL+V and it can open multiple documents and switch between them. But you can just take the edit program from DOS 7+ and then put it in your DOS 6.22 system. 😀

True... The editor is an advantage. It belongs to my standard moves when setting up a fresh DOS 6.22 - just like exchanging himem and emm386 😀
But isn't there more then just the editor that gives 7.1 the lead?

just like exchanging himem and emm386

Be careful with that. They don't do any harm but they may cause compatibility issues on old HW/SW (and differ in A20 handling).
For example, they have different switches and a different memory addressing order.
See top-down vs bottom-up "thing", it may also affect caches on certain mainboards :
Re: What order does Windows 3.11 use memory?
Re: A problem when trying to install a Living books game on Windows 3.1 on PCem.

@Jo22, that's an interesting fact! I have a 386, that behaves a bit unstable when any XMS/EMS is used. I always used win98's himem.sys and emm386.exe without thinking that might be the problem. I'll definitelly try out the original 6.22 utils to see, if it changes anything...

Definitely do use the HIMEM and EMM386 that came with the distribution of DOS that you are using.

I had issues with original versions. Example: beneath a steel sky intro freezes. With the himem and emm386 from 7.1 it runs without problems.

Don't forget 7.1 another feature is LFNs.