You should be able to load your 'translation program' high. Maybe try QEMM or another 3rd party memory manager.

I doubt you want to load the game high, some games have their own protected mode extenders which give them access to all the available memory.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2020-03-15, 03:58:

You should be able to load your 'translation program' high. Maybe try QEMM or another 3rd party memory manager.

I doubt you want to load the game high, some games have their own protected mode extenders which give them access to all the available memory.

That sounds like it would work, but how do I do that?

Even with a 3rd party memory manager, wouldn't I still need to type something extra to tell the translator to load in an higher memory location?

If your loading the translator program in autoexec.bat you can use LH or LOADHIGH in front of the executable path.

LH should work anywhere, not just in autoexec

I'll try loading it in autoexec.bat tomorrow, too sleepy tonight.

Turns out I can't load the translator high because it is also a batch file.

If it helps, the translator is called SNESKey. I'm not seeing any documentation that addresses memory issues.

Then edit the batch file of the tool and add "LH" there for the .com or .exe it loads.

However, It's most likely too big anyway, as high memory is limited and you have probably some stuff sitting there already.

Why not post your config.sys, autoexec.bat, and the output of "mem /c /p" here? Much easier to help then.

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-15, 08:32:

Then edit the batch file of the tool and add "LH" there for the .com or .exe it loads.

However, It's most likely too big anyway, as high memory is limited and you have probably some stuff sitting there already.

Why not post your config.sys, autoexec.bat, and the output of "mem /c /p" here? Much easier to help then.

Editing the batch file with LH breaks the file location. 🙁

I'm sure these files could use some cleaning up, but here they are:

CONFIG.SYS (USB drivers at the end didn't work right, commented them out until I figure out why)

1DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
2DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM
3BUFFERS=15,0
4FILES=40
5DOS=UMB
6LASTDRIVE=F
7FCBS=4,0
8DOS=HIGH
9;DOS=UMB
10REM ** FILES=30
11DEVICEHIGH /L:2,12048 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
12DOS=HIGH
13;device=C:\USB\USBASPI.SYS /w /v
14;device=C:\USB\NJ32DISK.sys
15
16
17[common]
18DEVICEHIGH /L:2,17200 =C:\CDROM\AOATAPI.SYS /D:IDECD000
19

AUTOEXEC.BAT

1SET SOUND=C:\SB16
2SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H7 P330 T6
3SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
4C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
5C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
6@ECHO OFF
7LH /L:0 C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
8PROMPT $p$g
9PATH C:\DOS ;C:\SNESKEY
10SET TEMP=C:\DOS
11LH /L:2,27952 C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDECD000
12SET LMOUSE=C:\MOUSE
13C:\MOUSE\MOUSE.EXE

MEM /C /P

1
2Modules using memory below 1 MB:
3
4  Name           Total       =   Conventional   +   Upper Memory
5  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
6  MSDOS       14,957   (15K)     14,957   (15K)          0    (0K)
7  HIMEM        1,168    (1K)      1,168    (1K)          0    (0K)
8  EMM386       3,120    (3K)      3,120    (3K)          0    (0K)
9  COMMAND      2,928    (3K)      2,928    (3K)          0    (0K)
10  SMARTDRV    29,024   (28K)     29,024   (28K)          0    (0K)
11  MOUSE       24,176   (24K)     24,176   (24K)          0    (0K)
12  SETVER         512    (1K)          0    (0K)        512    (1K)
13  AOATAPI     10,352   (10K)          0    (0K)     10,352   (10K)
14  MSCDEX      27,952   (27K)          0    (0K)     27,952   (27K)
15  Free       586,912  (573K)    573,680  (560K)     13,232   (13K)
16
17Memory Summary:
18
19  Type of Memory       Total   =    Used    +    Free
20  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
21  Conventional         649,216       75,536      573,680
22  Upper                 52,048       38,816       13,232
23  Reserved                   0            0            0
24  Extended (XMS)*   15,676,592    2,602,160   13,074,432
25Press any key to continue . . .
26  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
27  Total memory      16,377,856    2,716,512   13,661,344
28
29  Total under 1 MB     701,264      114,352      586,912
30
31  Total Expanded (EMS)                16,056,320 (15,680K
32  Free Expanded (EMS)*                13,320,192 (13,008K
33
34  * EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
35    Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.
36
37  Largest executable program size        573,424   (560K)
38  Largest free upper memory block          9,024     (9K)
39  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.
40

Wow, that's quite a mess. But anyway:

1. add "HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF" after the "RAM" parameter of EMM386
2. remove all "DOS=" lines and just add "DOS=HIGH,UMB" once
3. remove SMARTDRV.EXE
4. use CuteMouse instead of that MOUSE.EXE

This should give you about 50-60 kb more conventional memory.

Also, remove all that "/L:x,y" stuff. I guess you did run memmaker at some point?

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-15, 18:13:

Wow, that's quite a mess. But anyway: […]
Show full quote

Wow, that's quite a mess. But anyway:

1. add "HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF" after the "RAM" parameter of EMM386
2. remove all "DOS=" lines and just add "DOS=HIGH,UMB" once
3. remove SMARTDRV.EXE
4. use CuteMouse instead of that MOUSE.EXE

This should give you about 50-60 kb more conventional memory.

Also, remove all that "/L:x,y" stuff. I guess you did run memmaker at some point?

Yes, I ran memmaker.

CuteMouse couldn't find my mouse, so I commented out the lines for both mouse programs and the game still won't load.

Is there a way to load DOS games into high memory?

Yes, if you mean the range of 640KB to 1MB (aka adapter space, adapter's segment, Upper Memory Area/UMA).
Problem is, the term for that region varried. Both in time and space (country).

Originally, in English countries, that space was called "high memory". This was in the mid-1980s or so,
when people tried to make their old PCs make use of more system memory for DOS (conventional memory rather than UMBs).

At the time, with Hercules and CGA cards, it was possible to have 704 to 736KB (and beyond with other gfx hardware) of ordinary DOS memory,
provided the motherboard was configured that way..

A proof-of-concept video of mine can be seen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMB8XvwUJo

Later, after XMS came out and Himem.sys was able to use 64KiB (-16bytes) above 1024KB -on ATs- to swap out DOS kernal,
it became "upper memory" (with free memory blocks called UMBs; Upper Memory Blocks).

In German speaking countries, for example, this was not adapted until the release of DOS 7 for several reasons.
In DOS 6.22, the Upper Memory Area (UMA) is erroneously called "Hoher Speicherbereich" (high memory location),
and the HMA (High Memory Area) is called "Oberer Speicherbereich" (upper memory location),
causing confusion with English speaking folks sometimes. Especially when they're around on English forums. 😉

More information:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Memory_Are … riffsverwirrung
Englisch Translation

Lylat1an wrote on 2020-03-15, 23:51:

CuteMouse couldn't find my mouse, so I commented out the lines for both mouse programs and the game still won't load.

Did you do the other changes I suggested, too?

Upon further investigation, the issue seems to be that the combination of the two programs are just too large to fit in conventional memory.

The game needs 560KB, SNESKey is 57KB, together they equal 617KB out of the 602KB total conventional memory available.

Is there a smaller alternative to SNESKey that will let me use a game controller to emulate a keyboard? Or a way to load SNESKey into a higher memory area?

There's no issue getting 617 KB or even more. And you can load SNESKey into high memory. But I'm not sure what you've tried so far, since you did not answer to my previous question.

derSammler wrote on 2020-03-21, 22:10:

There's no issue getting 617 KB or even more. And you can load SNESKey into high memory.

Oh good, how can I do that?

I did use your suggestions, I also removed the USB lines and commented out the mouse lines.

I can post my new files if it will help.

I rearranged DOS's Autoexec and Config files and now I have enough memory to load the two programs together in conventional memory.

Still, the game crashes sometimes saying it ran out of memory.

Jo22 wrote on 2020-03-15, 23:52:

In German speaking countries, for example, this was not adapted until the release of DOS 7 for several reasons. In DOS 6.22, the […]
Show full quote

In German speaking countries, for example, this was not adapted until the release of DOS 7 for several reasons.
In DOS 6.22, the Upper Memory Area (UMA) is erroneously called "Hoher Speicherbereich" (high memory location),
and the HMA (High Memory Area) is called "Oberer Speicherbereich" (upper memory location),
causing confusion with English speaking folks sometimes. Especially when they're around on English forums. 😉

First of all, to be fair, "upper" and "higher" are basically synomyms, so it would be hard to keep any distinction between the two when trying to translate both things literally. But why didn't those silly Germans just stick to the English acronyms, like we did in the Netherlands? Why unnecessarily add so many syllables, and introduce such confusion otherwise? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was the HMA, and there were UMBs. Simple. And the fact that the former was in singular form with a definite article and the latter was plural, made the distinction even clearer. There was only one HMA, but there could be many UMBs, depending on the motherboard's chipset.

Well, since you bumped the thread...

Is there anything more I can do to increase the available conventional memory?

It seems odd that your system only has 649,216 bytes of conventional memory in total. Conventional should be 655,360 bytes total, or at least that's what I get on my systems.

It might help if you could also tell us which game/program it is that you're trying to get to run in combination with that SNESKey utility.

Some games (like Catacomb 3-D, Commander Keen 4-6 and BioMenace) try to allocate additional XMS memory via UMBs and will not be able to use XMS at all as long as you have the line "DOS=UMB" or "DOS=HIGH,UMB" in your CONFIG.SYS. Allowing DOS to use UMBs means that MS-DOS will grab all available UMBs at startup, so the game can't use them. Without "DOS=UMB", however, you won't be able to load any drivers or TSRs into high memory. Unless your drivers and TSRs are filling your entire upper memory, you might get better results by letting the game use the UMBs and loading your drivers and TSRs into conventional memory.

The best solution for these games is to have either a dedicated boot disk or a boot menu with a matching entry. Remove anything that isn't absolutely necessary to get the game running (CD-ROM drivers, mouse drivers etc).

Lylat1an wrote on 2020-04-06, 21:38:

Well, since you bumped the thread...

Is there anything more I can do to increase the available conventional memory?

If you don't need EMS, you can use EMM386.EXE NOEMS instead of EMM386.EXE RAM
That gives you more free RAM