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what SSD for XP ?

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First post, by kasfruit

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hello everyone.
I was just reading this thread I found while googling Anyone Know of TRIMing Software for Windows XP?

my questions are: what good SSD can we purchase now for XP ?? do we have to purchase 5 years old SSD's that will be hard to find ??

now a 120GB SSD does cost less than a 64GB USB memory stick so it's a good time to get some.

I have checked all mainstream SSD manufacturers websites and downloaded their SSD optimizing tool but they don't run on XP.

they don't even have a link for the legacy versions

the Kingston website says that its SSD tool works from W8 and up however I installed it with no issues

Kingston is not my first priority nor am I sure their utility with a vintage looking has support for TRIM

I know there are some after market tools for SSD but I think they will not be as good as the original one from the SSD manufacturer.

Reply 1 of 34, by kasfruit

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I may understand that a current SSD won't be well optimized with an old version of the optimization software but I am afraid it does not even detect it !!!

this makes me feel so bad... 🙁

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/sams … d_magician.html

''I purchased Samsung EVO 860 Sata for Lenovo R61 Win XP Pro sp3 notebook.
The latest version of Samsung Magician (5.x.x) refuses to install under Windows XP.
The former version of Magician (4.9.5?) installs under Win XP but does not recognize EVO 860 SATA SSD as Samsung product.
Catch 22???''

Reply 2 of 34, by debs3759

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I bought a couple of RevoDrive PCI-E SSDs for older systems. I haven't tested them yet, but I believe on an older system they are as fast as a SATA3 SSD on a modern system.

Reply 3 of 34, by kasfruit

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debs3759 wrote on 2020-08-01, 16:32:

I bought a couple of RevoDrive PCI-E SSDs for older systems. I haven't tested them yet, but I believe on an older system they are as fast as a SATA3 SSD on a modern system.

surely any modern SATA is way better than that thing with Sanforce controller.

Reply 4 of 34, by Jo22

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Speaking of Sandforce controllers.. My first SSD was "made" by Kingspec and had 16GB of capacity.
I wanted to use this thing on XP, which was my main OS at the time still.

The result was horrible. It "ran" like a snail. Or like a slug, not sure.
When I used Windows 7, it was blazing fast - of course I did my homework and knew of the alignment issue.
So even on the first try I installed XP on a safe, aligned partition previously made with the Win 7 Setup DVD..

2-3 years later, when SSDs became the norm, I upgraded my father's XP machine with a 120GB SSD.
Also Sandforce (newer gen ?) and "made" by Kingspec again. This time, XP ran just fine.

Long story short: First gen SSDs are not good, not even for old OSes like XP.
If you can't get hold of a SSD that suits XP, just get an SSHD.
But not the first gen of the Momentus XT.

Or use the best method - get a real RAM drive that uses memory modules, a backup battery and installs into a PCI/PCIe slot
Little Windows XP (1,5GB base install) will be blazing fast on such a thing! 😁

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 5 of 34, by matze79

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-02, 14:22:

Speaking of Sandforce controllers.. My first SSD was "made" by Kingspec and had 16GB of capacity.
I wanted to use this thing on XP, which was my main OS at the time still.

i use vertex 2 drives since years, and never ran into a issue at least if they new and straight upgraded to latest firmware there is nothing to worry.

And they perfect for XP as they don`t care about TRIM anyway.
As all content is stored compressed on the flash.

Mine has now seen 3 OS Generations from XP to 10.

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Reply 6 of 34, by NyLan

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I have some Samsung (256GB), Sandisk (256GB) and Intel (180GB) SSDs I use for my Windows98/DOS/Xp Computers.
No issues to report so far. I'm not using TRIM, just once I tried to launch the Trim app made by R. Loew Electronics on DOS that seems to work fine. But I don't really care if one of my SSD lifespawn is reduced 😀

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.

Reply 7 of 34, by kasfruit

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NyLan wrote on 2020-08-02, 14:53:

I have some Samsung (256GB), Sandisk (256GB) and Intel (180GB) SSDs I use for my Windows98/DOS/Xp Computers.

can you share the model name of the Samsung's ?
the official toolbox is necessary to download the latest SSD firmware and Samsung uses this ruse to steal their customer's IP, SSD ID...etc
that's why you must accept the agreement when installing it otherwise you can't download a new firmware update (see pic below)

I don't care for the Magician or other competition's SSD toolbox if there was another way for updating the SSD firmware.
this thing really drives me nuts because with so many good alternatives on the market I am stuck with unknown brands or 5 years old SSD's

1366_2000.jpg

Reply 8 of 34, by Jo22

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matze79 wrote on 2020-08-02, 14:47:
i use vertex 2 drives since years, and never ran into a issue at least if they new and straight upgraded to latest firmware ther […]
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Jo22 wrote on 2020-08-02, 14:22:

Speaking of Sandforce controllers.. My first SSD was "made" by Kingspec and had 16GB of capacity.
I wanted to use this thing on XP, which was my main OS at the time still.

i use vertex 2 drives since years, and never ran into a issue at least if they new and straight upgraded to latest firmware there is nothing to worry.

And they perfect for XP as they don`t care about TRIM anyway.
As all content is stored compressed on the flash.

Mine has now seen 3 OS Generations from XP to 10.

I got my SSD in 2011 or 2012, I think. Not 100% sure, though.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 9 of 34, by NyLan

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It's old Samsung drives, but I'm using them without this kind of tools and I didn't even try to upgrade their firmware. Just using them out of the box 😀

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.

Reply 10 of 34, by SpaceCadet

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On my LGA775 system, I use a dirt cheap Crucial MX500 BX500 SSD and I dual boot between Windows XP and Linux. When I boot Linux, I mount the windows partition with the ntfs-3g driver and then I can use fstrim to trim it.

Last edited by SpaceCadet on 2020-08-03, 22:49. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 11 of 34, by swaaye

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Theoretically, I think the Sandforce controller's questionable use of data compression and deduplication made it more resilient to situations without TRIM.

I still have 2 OCZ Vertex 2 drives in use. One I use for Windows 98 thru Windows 10. I'm still waiting for some SSD to die of something besides a defect!

Reply 12 of 34, by kasfruit

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SpaceCadet wrote on 2020-08-02, 22:15:

When I boot Linux, I mount the windows partition with the ntfs-3g driver and then I can use fstrim to trim it.

I am a complete ignorant in this matter.
to my understanding Windows TRIM function will tell the SSD what files have been deleted
but how can a Linux boot know what files have been deleted from the XP file system ?

Reply 14 of 34, by SpaceCadet

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kasfruit wrote on 2020-08-03, 08:23:

I am a complete ignorant in this matter.
to my understanding Windows TRIM function will tell the SSD what files have been deleted
but how can a Linux boot know what files have been deleted from the XP file system ?

There are two ways of doing trim. One way is to use the filesystem with the "discard" option, which sends a trim command whenever a block is deleted. This is like tidying up as you go. Unfortunately, Windows XP does not support this as it predates common usage of SSDs.

The other is to periodically do a trim of the full filesystem. This sends a list of unused blocks as the OS sees it to the drive controller, which will then discard the unused blocks. This is like tidying up the whole room after it's become messy, and this is how Linux can trim an XP drive because it does know which blocks are used and which are empty.

Reply 15 of 34, by BushLin

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I've always wondered if making the partition(s) smaller than the available space on the disk keeps some blocks ready for writing?
Also, if some SSD firmware is smart enough to do its own garbage collection even without a trim aware operating system?
Personally, I just USB boot a trim aware OS for making backups and never noticed a slowdown of an XP system using an SSD.
There's BIOS mods for older Intel chipsets to have TRIM support in RAID also. Later Core2duo boards top out around 500MB/s (using 300MB/s ports) and Sandy/Ivy Bridge around 1000MB/s (600MB/s ports)
This site is an excellent resource for getting the right combination of driver and Intel RAID BIOS for optimal performance:
http://www.win-raid.com/

Screw period correct; I wanted a faster system back then. I choose no dropped frames, super fast loading, fully compatible and quiet operation.

Reply 17 of 34, by BushLin

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Looks like old versions of the Samsung Magician software are hard to find even with archive.org. Tried hard to find a verifiable source, just found some obscure french archive of old software.
4.9.7 is the last release before many features were pulled, not sure it will give you everything you want but it officially supports XP and drives up to the 850 Pro/Evo which are the fastest for XP.
4.7 was the last release before Windows 10 support was added, potentially less bloated if it has all the features you need.
Would be interested to see if TRIM can be applied through the utility under XP, I don't fancy breaking my RAID array to find out.

4.9.6
https://www.touslesdrivers.com/index.php?v_pa … 733&v_langue=en

4.7
https://www.touslesdrivers.com/index.php?v_pa … 070&v_langue=en

EDIT: also, would over-provisioning an 840/850 Pro remove the need for TRIM at all?

Screw period correct; I wanted a faster system back then. I choose no dropped frames, super fast loading, fully compatible and quiet operation.

Reply 18 of 34, by BetaC

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Technically speaking, is fretting over TRIM all that important if you’re not doing constant writing to the drives? Wouldn’t making sure that you have an aligned partition be more important for performance?

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Reply 19 of 34, by kepstin

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Honestly, any modern SATA SSD should work fine with WinXP. Drives with a RAM cache will perform better, but it's unclear whether that makes a different to longevity. All current model drives will do background garbage collection, and can use unwritten (unpartitioned) space for wear levelling and to maintain performance.

Just make sure to:

  • "Secure Erase" the drive if it has previously been used (This resets the drive so it knows nothing has been written anywhere).
  • Align the partitions. It's best if you connect the SSD to a modern system to create the partitions before installing Windows XP.
  • Overprovision the drive by leaving some space unpartitioned. I recommend around 25% unused space, but if you're using a drive larger than 250GB you would probably be fine with less.