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what SSD for XP ?

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Reply 20 of 34, by kasfruit

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Shagittarius wrote on 2020-08-03, 20:53:

I just use Crucial BX500 120GB drives. They seem to work fine for 98/XP/10.

Crucial SSD tool does only support 64-bit systems from W7 https://www.crucial.com/support/storage-executive
I want to guess you are using a legacy version of this toolbox right ? which one ?
if so can you optimize, refresh, erase or download the latest firmware releases for your BX500 ?
this message in the yellow rectangle is aimed at the MX series only https://eu.crucial.com/support/ssd-support

Reply 21 of 34, by kasfruit

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kepstin wrote on 2020-08-04, 01:55:
Honestly, any modern SATA SSD should work fine with WinXP. […]
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Honestly, any modern SATA SSD should work fine with WinXP.

Just make sure to:

  • "Secure Erase" the drive if it has previously been used (This resets the drive so it knows nothing has been written anywhere).
  • Align the partitions. It's best if you connect the SSD to a modern system to create the partitions before installing Windows XP.
  • Overprovision the drive by leaving some space unpartitioned. I recommend around 25% unused space, but if you're using a drive larger than 250GB you would probably be fine with less.

I know any modern SATA should work on XP but the problem boils down to the software utility that will read everything you do on Windows and then erase unused space when idling or on startup unlike the TRIM command that works constantly.

Maybe I am wrong ¿ does garbage collection work without this SSD tool ?

if I don't install a 3rd party utility with manual TRIM from the start ¿ will it know what files been deleted since I installed Windows ?

I have read multiple recommendations 10%, 20% for this ''overprovisioning'' thing.... with a 50GB partition I have enough space for XP and a bunch of unused programs

Reply 22 of 34, by kasfruit

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BushLin wrote on 2020-08-03, 23:19:

Looks like old versions of the Samsung Magician software are hard to find even with archive.org. Tried hard to find a verifiable source, just found some obscure french archive of old software.
4.9.7 is the last release before many features were pulled, not sure it will give you everything you want but it officially supports XP and drives up to the 850 Pro/Evo which are the fastest for XP.

intel is probably the only SSD maker that makes their SSD tool release notes available to the public
https://www.google.com/search?q=intel+SSD+too … =utf-8&oe=utf-8

there you can see what improvements have been added to every SSD series and they are still updating old drives (maybe out of production)
if the NAND algorithm improvement is inside the newer firmware and you can download it with any legacy version that would be perfect to me

the problem is that maybe you can't take advantage of the new improvements if you don't install the latest SSD toolbox version

I know the Samsung 850 was still recognized with that version 4.9.X because the 850 SSD was releasd in 2014-2015
https://www.station-drivers.com/index.php?opt … &id=559&lang=en

but didn't know anything about the 950 which is by the way one out of the few rare drives with OPTION ROM so I can even get the NVME version for a legacy BIOS (not UEFI) based mobo.

Last edited by kasfruit on 2020-08-04, 15:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 24 of 34, by Shagittarius

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kasfruit wrote on 2020-08-04, 14:25:
Crucial SSD tool does only support 64-bit systems from W7 https://www.crucial.com/support/storage-executive I want to guess you […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2020-08-03, 20:53:

I just use Crucial BX500 120GB drives. They seem to work fine for 98/XP/10.

Crucial SSD tool does only support 64-bit systems from W7 https://www.crucial.com/support/storage-executive
I want to guess you are using a legacy version of this toolbox right ? which one ?
if so can you optimize, refresh, erase or download the latest firmware releases for your BX500 ?
this message in the yellow rectangle is aimed at the MX series only https://eu.crucial.com/support/ssd-support

I dont use any tools or software with it, I left 25% space unpartitioned for each drive and forgot about them. I have not had any problems. You don't need to update firmwares, the performance without running any of those things is fine. I install , make backups with Ghost or Acronis depending on the system and thats it. I've restored and wiped and whatnot for over a year now and have never had an issue.

Reply 25 of 34, by kasfruit

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Shagittarius wrote on 2020-08-04, 15:37:

You don't need to update firmwares, the performance without running any of those things is fine.

that's cool if you can live without any new NAND or controller upgrade, that might extend the SSD lifespan or fix some algorithm bugs.
do you have a clear answer for my question ?
does the garbage collection function work fine without the toolbox ?

Reply 26 of 34, by Shagittarius

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kasfruit wrote on 2020-08-04, 16:49:
that's cool if you can live without any new NAND or controller upgrade, that might extend the SSD lifespan or fix some algorithm […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2020-08-04, 15:37:

You don't need to update firmwares, the performance without running any of those things is fine.

that's cool if you can live without any new NAND or controller upgrade, that might extend the SSD lifespan or fix some algorithm bugs.
do you have a clear answer for my question ?
does the garbage collection function work fine without the toolbox ?

I have never seen a degredation in performance , but I cannot attest if garbage collection is taking place. Honestly these drives cost $15, I'm not much worried about their lifespan, I bought a dozen and hope that I'm covered for a lifetime since the biggest threat to using SSDs in Win98 systems is that it wont be long before they stop producing 120Gb or smaller drives altogether.

Keep in mind there's not a lot of deleting and re-writing of data I do with these systems. I install games mostly and play them, so I doubt I'm a prime candidate for testing garbage collection as I don't delete a lot of things.

Reply 27 of 34, by swaaye

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This is a fun article to mitigate some of the worrying.
https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-e … heyre-all-dead/

"...the compressible HyperX didn’t hit the same volume of flash writes that killed its sibling until around 1.1PB. The drive evidently wasn’t ready to go quietly into the night, either. It went on to write another freaking petabyte before failing."
😁

Reply 28 of 34, by BushLin

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kepstin wrote on 2020-08-04, 01:55:

..
[*] Overprovision the drive by leaving some space unpartitioned. I recommend around 25% unused space, but if you're using a drive larger than 250GB you would probably be fine with less.

SSD over-provisioning is a feature found on high end drives (e.g. available on Samsung Pro but not Evo models) where a portion of the flash is reserved for writes and isn't available for partitioning. The feature is desirable for systems where a disk is written to so much that garbage collection can't keep up.
What you're suggesting is more akin to short-stroking. Potentially, some disk firmware is aware of the partition table and it has the same effect; however, I suspect it's less likely to be the case if the manufacturer offers more expensive datacentre focused disks.

Screw period correct; I wanted a faster system back then. I choose no dropped frames, super fast loading, fully compatible and quiet operation.

Reply 29 of 34, by BushLin

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kasfruit wrote on 2020-08-04, 15:05:

but didn't know anything about the 950 which is by the way one out of the few rare drives with OPTION ROM so I can even get the NVME version for a legacy BIOS (not UEFI) based mobo.

The 950 option is interesting, very interesting, but do you know if you can boot to XP and utilize the performance?

Screw period correct; I wanted a faster system back then. I choose no dropped frames, super fast loading, fully compatible and quiet operation.

Reply 30 of 34, by kasfruit

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Shagittarius wrote on 2020-08-04, 17:22:

I have never seen a degredation in performance , but I cannot attest if garbage collection is taking place.

I asked Kingston customer care about this and the gentle man told me that garbage collection is independent from the SSD manager
if that's true we can easily update the SSD firmware via a second computer or dual boot partition.
so the only drawback left is the TRIM command and very few SSD toolbox feature this function or do not support the current drives (see Magician)

ADATA SSD manger does support XP and TRIM but all their SSD's with Realtek controllers and DRMless are really a piece of junk.
has anyone tested the TRIM function from ADATA with another SSD brand ?

screenshot.jpg

Reply 31 of 34, by kasfruit

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SpaceCadet wrote on 2020-08-03, 15:23:

There are two ways of doing trim.

copy paste, this is from Crucial customer support. have a good reading. 😀

We value your feedback and our customers. We certainly understand that you are looking for a storage executive software that supports 32-bit version and this is not a mistake by our customers asking for it.

However, we have a solution for you to update the firmware using second method which is called Bootable ISO image provided by Crucial. We are quite confident that this method will not let you down by thinking that only Storage Executive does all the job for the Crucial Drives.

We are asking you to follow the steps given below and please do not think that it is a lengthy process due to which we’re not explaining it here in e-mail. It is just that it has some reference images that will definitely help you to understand you’re on the right track.

Here is a link: https://content.crucial.com/content/dam ... 6618324057

Also, you have mentioned Trim and garbage collection would need Storage Executive which is not true. We are taking an opportunity to explain you on both this features and how it is going to work without Storage Executive.

Garbage collection: On a PC, power on with the SSD installed and enter your system's BIOS or UEFI (please refer to your system manufacturer’s documentation on how to access the BIOS). Leave the system in this menu for 6-8 hours, which will power the SSD but not execute any operations, allowing Garbage Collection to run.

Crucial SSDs have a maintenance feature called Active Garbage Collection built into the controller of the SSD. Active Garbage Collection does background clean-up on the drive and runs when the SSD has power, but is not actively reading or writing data. The purpose of this feature is to maintain the SSD's performance.

Trim: TRIM support has to come from within the Operating system itself; a driver or any other application alone won't get you anything. And only Windows 7 supports trim - neither Vista nor XP can do it.

If you’re still unhappy that the 32-bit versions does not support Storage Executive software then it is highly recommended to update the system to 64-bit version which can be done if processor is compatible.

Please contact us via live medium i.e. via phone or a chat if you want to share your experience using Crucial drives and we are known for valuing our customers.

Reply 32 of 34, by NyLan

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I would personally create a bootable floppy disk and Trim from DOS. Depending of your usage from once a month to once a year 😀

Last edited by NyLan on 2020-08-06, 09:23. Edited 1 time in total.

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.

Reply 33 of 34, by SpaceCadet

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kasfruit wrote on 2020-08-05, 11:01:
copy paste, this is from Crucial customer support. have a good reading. :) […]
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SpaceCadet wrote on 2020-08-03, 15:23:

There are two ways of doing trim.

copy paste, this is from Crucial customer support. have a good reading. 😀

We value your feedback and our customers. We certainly understand that you are looking for a storage executive software that supports 32-bit version and this is not a mistake by our customers asking for it.

However, we have a solution for you to update the firmware using second method which is called Bootable ISO image provided by Crucial. We are quite confident that this method will not let you down by thinking that only Storage Executive does all the job for the Crucial Drives.

We are asking you to follow the steps given below and please do not think that it is a lengthy process due to which we’re not explaining it here in e-mail. It is just that it has some reference images that will definitely help you to understand you’re on the right track.

Here is a link: https://content.crucial.com/content/dam ... 6618324057

Also, you have mentioned Trim and garbage collection would need Storage Executive which is not true. We are taking an opportunity to explain you on both this features and how it is going to work without Storage Executive.

Garbage collection: On a PC, power on with the SSD installed and enter your system's BIOS or UEFI (please refer to your system manufacturer’s documentation on how to access the BIOS). Leave the system in this menu for 6-8 hours, which will power the SSD but not execute any operations, allowing Garbage Collection to run.

Crucial SSDs have a maintenance feature called Active Garbage Collection built into the controller of the SSD. Active Garbage Collection does background clean-up on the drive and runs when the SSD has power, but is not actively reading or writing data. The purpose of this feature is to maintain the SSD's performance.

Trim: TRIM support has to come from within the Operating system itself; a driver or any other application alone won't get you anything. And only Windows 7 supports trim - neither Vista nor XP can do it.

If you’re still unhappy that the 32-bit versions does not support Storage Executive software then it is highly recommended to update the system to 64-bit version which can be done if processor is compatible.

Please contact us via live medium i.e. via phone or a chat if you want to share your experience using Crucial drives and we are known for valuing our customers.

I don't see what this has to do with my comment. Garbage collection and trim are two different things.

Reply 34 of 34, by kepstin

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BushLin wrote on 2020-08-04, 19:53:
kepstin wrote on 2020-08-04, 01:55:

..
[*] Overprovision the drive by leaving some space unpartitioned. I recommend around 25% unused space, but if you're using a drive larger than 250GB you would probably be fine with less.

SSD over-provisioning is a feature found on high end drives (e.g. available on Samsung Pro but not Evo models) where a portion of the flash is reserved for writes and isn't available for partitioning. The feature is desirable for systems where a disk is written to so much that garbage collection can't keep up.
What you're suggesting is more akin to short-stroking. Potentially, some disk firmware is aware of the partition table and it has the same effect; however, I suspect it's less likely to be the case if the manufacturer offers more expensive datacentre focused disks.

The SSD firmware isn't aware of the partition table at all. The firmware only tracks what disk space is "used" (has been written to and contains data that must be preserved) and what disk space is "unused" (has never been written to, just return '0's when read). The SSD firmware will take advantage of both the overprovisioning (extra flash included in the drive that's not counted as part of the capacity) as well as "unused" space when it's performing write balancing and garbage collection. The more available "unused" space, the better the SSD will perform (in general, and with diminishing returns).

With newer operating systems, the "TRIM" (also called "DISCARD") command allows the operating system to tell the SSD firmware that some parts of the disk which were previously "used" are now "unused". This helps the drive maintain good performance - as long as you never completely fill the disk. (But even if you do, it should get better after you free up some space again.)

If you have a new, unpartitioned SSD - or take a previously used SSD and run a "secure erase" tool on it - the SSD firmware knows that all of the space on the disk is "unused". If you then leave some of the space unpartitioned, then that space on the disk will never become "used" because it's never written to.