VOGONS


First post, by Exardious

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hey all

First post for me. Here goes.

I've assembled an old computer recently
AMD K6-2 450
256 MB Ram
20GB HD
Geforce 2 MX / 400
Windows 98 SE

I installed Dungeon Keeper 2 from my original box, and applied the latest official patch (1.7).

The game runs really bad. I have enabled Hardware Acceleration in the options menu, and i tried applying the command line parameter -32biteverything.

Any ideas? Google was not very helpful.

Reply 2 of 14, by Garrett W

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

A few things:

First off, the K6-2 450 is a pretty slow CPU and Dungeon Keeper 2 can be a bit demanding. So, don't expect miracles 😀.
Secondly, what motherboard are you using on this system? I'm asking because 256MB is quite a lot for this system and if you're using a motherboard with an Intel chipset, chances are most of it ain't getting cached and leads to further performance reduction.
Thirdly, what drivers are you using for the GeForce2 MX? On CPUs this old, it's best to use early drivers, since the later ones introduce more overhead and reduce performance. I'd use Detonater 5.32 with this card.

Reply 3 of 14, by Exardious

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

The minimum req. for the game is a Pentium 2 166. So i thought i was in the clear with my current processor.

The chipset is a VIA chipset, but im not sure exactly which one. Im running the CPU with 100 Mhz FSB. The AGP is 2x.

Im going to try out some older drivers, and report back.

Reply 4 of 14, by Garrett W

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

You're in the clear with the RAM, but keep in mind that when it comes to 3D games, that K6-2 450 is no faster than say a Pentium II 233 or 266. System requirements back in the day were put with different sensibilities than the ones we have today. Have you ever tried Half-Life on the minimum requirement of a Pentium 133 and 24MB and no 3D card 😉 ?

Older drivers should help and you should be able to find them on VOGONS Drivers, just don't expect any miracles out of this system. What sort of framerates are you getting?

Reply 6 of 14, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

You need at least Pentium 3 to run Dungeon Keeper 2 with decent performance, but Athlon XP/Pentium 4 is highly recommended.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 7 of 14, by Exardious

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I just found this old review. The game was reviewed on a system with these specs:

Pentium II 400mhz with 128 megs of RAM.
Acceleration: 12 MB Voodoo2, Turtle Beach Montego 1 sound card.

While he mentions SOME slowdown in busy periods, mine is super bad already in the game menu.

https://archive.arstechnica.com/etc/games/3q9 … /dk2/dk2-1.html

Reply 8 of 14, by Garrett W

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Pentium II 400 is much faster than a K6-2 450. Due to your CPU bottleneck, the GeForce card you are using with what I assume are much later drivers, is making the bottleneck even greater thanks to driver overhead. Did you try older drivers? If you had a Voodoo2, it might actually perform better than the GF2MX.

Lastly, don't compare user experience and playable framerates from back then with the sensibilities of today. I remember reading a review of Warcraft III from a local magazine and the reviewer was playing on a K6-III 450 (no joke) and was having a good time, describing it as playable, except for the final level, in which he had to send units to the enemy base blindly, because it was impossible to control them due to the lag.
I personally tried this on my own system some years ago after reading that review and finding it hilarious, I had the absolute best I could have had, K6-III+ clocked at 600MHz and lots of RAM that the reviewer did not have, plus a GeForce4 with very early drivers and I ran everything at 640x480 and everything on lowest to see how well it would perform. I can tell you now, it was never above 20FPS and it was usually in the teens and hitting single digits very often, even with just a few units on screen.

I personally would never play Warcraft III like that, but that reviewer from 18 years ago took no issue with it. The same might be true of DK2, which I have not played much. I know for certain though that I've seen it struggle even on fast Pentium 3 systems and what you're trying to play it on is more like a slow Pentium II.

Reply 9 of 14, by Exardious

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

First of all, thanks for all the help you provide. I will definately try some other drivers.

Another thing i want to mention is, when i benchmark with 3dmark 2000, i only get a score of 997. This seems VERY low compared to what people got around year 2000. If i google GeForce 2MX 3d mark 2000, most people are at 4000+. Something isnt right 😀

Reply 10 of 14, by Garrett W

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Do you have any USB PCI cards installed out of curiosity?

Those 3DMark scores you found online for the GF2 MX are on far faster systems, I saw ~4100 marks on a PIII 866. Found these as well and they have a Celeron 300A with a GF2 MX scoring ~1700 Marks. Your CPU is definitely slower than a Celeron 300A, so you are not that far off.

Last edited by Garrett W on 2020-08-05, 12:48. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 11 of 14, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

mine is super bad already in the game menu.

Don't bother with menu frame rate. It's always will be horrible there due to transparent fog.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 12 of 14, by Exardious

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Garrett W wrote on 2020-08-05, 12:07:

Do you have any USB PCI cards installed out of curiosity?

Those 3DMark scores you found online for the GF2 MX are on far faster systems, I saw ~4100 marks on a PIII 866. Found these as well and they have a Celeron 300A with a GF2 MX scoring ~1700 Marks. Your CPU is definitely slower than a Celeron 300A, so you are not that far off.

Hey

Thanks for posting.

I dont have a PCI USB card. I have an Aureal Vortex 2 as the only PCI card, and 2 USB ports onboard the main board.

I found this old thread, on an old german board. Im fortunate enough to understand german, and they definately score higher:
https://forum.chip.de/discussion/29177/3dmark … -und-geforce2mx

"ich habe einen amd k6-2 450 mhz auf asus p5a mit meiner terminator beast 128 (savage 3d) getestet." (He tested his machine with a k6-2 + Savage S3, and got 690 points. He was not happy with that
"jetzt habe ich die alte raus und mir eine mx reingesteckt (ein bisschen übertaktet 😀 )" (He then changed the gfx card to an MX card, and now got 2280.)

Reply 13 of 14, by Exardious

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Ok update. Installed some other drivers and now I get 1700 in 3dmark 2000.

Regarding dungeon keeper 2 it seems it doesn't use my d3d / hardware. It seems to be locked to software rendering. No matter which option I chose in the settings menu the game looks the same. If I check hardware acceleration and chose 1024*768 the monitor still reports 640*480 mode.

Reply 14 of 14, by Garrett W

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Okay, no PCI USB card, that's good. As far as the Vortex 2 goes, if you are using that card for 3D sound... I have some bad news. 3D sound is very computationally expensive, especially for Aureal 3D, so again, I'd suggest disabling it where it applies on the K6-2 or perhaps even changing the card to something else. I'd say this is as good as it's going to get with 3DMark 2000, I misjudged the score because 3DMark2000 uses 3DNow! extensions that your CPU has, so it is competitive with the Celeron there (not in actual games though, I'm afraid). It'd be best to check with someone else's system and compare K6-2 CPUs with similar GPUs to see how high you can go.

Which drivers did you try? I'm a little confused by your wording, do you mean that DK2 stopped recognizing the 3D card as soon as you changed the drivers or was this also the case at the start of the thread? Also, have you patched Dungeon Keeper 2 to the latest version, 1.7? This might solve the issue with the 3D card not getting recognized.