VOGONS


First post, by roarkes

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I'm thinking is about nostalgia and test different things under ms-dos. But what about testing things ms-dos related from windows 98 ?
It is easy to edit .cfg files than in ms-dos vs windows 98 ?

Doom4ever

Reply 1 of 23, by Jorpho

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Some programs simply don't like being run under Win9x and run better (or require) restarting in MS-DOS mode. That's all there is to it, really.

roarkes wrote on 2020-08-27, 16:30:

It is easy to edit .cfg files than in ms-dos vs windows 98 ?

I don't understand. In Windows, you could use Notepad or any other text editor; in MS-DOS, you could use edit.com. What makes you think that would make a difference?

Reply 2 of 23, by SPBHM

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at some point I enjoyed launching whatever was a dos program from actual dos, but at the moment I just use win9x for whatever runs in it without problems, reverting to DOS when I encounter compatibility issues only.

Reply 3 of 23, by Terracresta

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I was going to use it with my retro PC at first but found it a hassle, so I "simply" dual-booted DOS 6.22 and Win 98 SE. Being able to use 160GB HDDs with my Pentium 233 MMX helps, even though I switched to a CF to IDE adapter and two cards because the HDD was the loudest part in my system (minus floppy and DVD drives).

Reply 5 of 23, by Joseph_Joestar

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As others have pointed out, there are certain games that outright won't work under Windows, and automatically ask you to restart in MS-DOS mode.

That said, I rarely use that particular option anymore, ever since I learned about DOS mode PIF files from Phil. Now, I simply make multiple PIFs and configure them according to my needs.

The most interesting part of using this approach is that the computer will keep booting into pure DOS, even after being turned off. It will never load Windows again until you type in "exit".

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 6 of 23, by dr_st

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I never used "Restart in MS-DOS". I always just ran DOS (BootGUI=0) and launched Windows manually (WIN) when I wanted it.

I wish I had known all those years ago that I could get General MIDI to work on the AWE64 when running games through Windows. It would have allowed me to have better music in some games that support General MIDI, but not AWE Synth.

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Reply 7 of 23, by amadeus777999

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Restart in MS Dos mode was the better option for me unless I used an AWE card that only worked in win9x "dos box". I'm not really experienced so using latter was the easiest option to make thing's "sing".

Reply 8 of 23, by Grzyb

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dr_st wrote on 2020-08-29, 21:25:

I never used "Restart in MS-DOS". I always just ran DOS (BootGUI=0) and launched Windows manually (WIN) when I wanted it.

Me too, only I go one step further - I also use "Logo=0".

Reply 10 of 23, by chinny22

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Since the the 90's I used a PIF shortcut, I've never really used the inbuilt option. I cant remember why but it worked better at the time.
This was out of necessity, a 486 didn't have the power to play games within windows.

Even later I still played dos games in native dos, partly out of habit, partly for network games with the 486 which didn't seem to work if one of the PC's were in windows.

Reply 11 of 23, by Benedikt

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The deciding factor is usually whether a program tries to set up its own protected mode without DPMI.
A DPMI compatible DOS extender would notice that there already is a DPMI (provided by Windows) and simply use that, instead.
Certain types of hardware access can also be problematic. The timer, for instance, is needed by Windows' scheduler.

Reply 12 of 23, by radiounix

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Software which works with hardware at a low level is likely to want a pure DOS environment. Tools like Spinrite and Partition Magic which talk directly to the disk controller, tools which query the hardware like MSD or Navratil, early DOS games that talk directly to video card registers aren't going to work fully or at all.

Most stuff probably does work, but first thing to try when there's an issue is shelling out to bare DOS. Video game companies still recommended that in the 95 era, and all but demanded it from 3.1 users.

Reply 13 of 23, by aleksej

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I always do at least two independent primary partitions: for DOS 6.22, Win9x, etc. In such case DOS Mode on Win9x partition useful only when i backup OS itself - i just zipyng WINDOWS and 'Program Files' folders with DOSLFN loaded. Quick but not so dirty as it seems.

Reply 14 of 23, by notsofossil

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I still don't understand why "boot to DOS" in Win95/98FE/98SE is such a big deal, I've very rarely gotten a program to work in full DOS mode rather than windowed within Windows. Got some drivers you want to run with DOS games? Those don't work, even in "boot to DOS" mode, they all tell you to not run this within Windows.

If you are planning on running lots of DOS stuff with real hardware, just forget Win9x and install DOS 6.22 with DOS shell, it's far less headache.

While I'm at it, since Windows ME doesn't have "boot to DOS" as an option, it's an even better choice for high end Windows 9x gaming. Thief and System Shock 2 are two games I remember refusing to work on WinNT, they require some flavor of 9x. I really love Windows ME for Pentium 3 and Pentium M systems, the USB mass storage, more drivers and better system stability are fantastic. There's still windowed DOS available as well, so simpler DOS programs are still an option.

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Reply 15 of 23, by Jorpho

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notsofossil wrote on 2020-09-25, 01:46:

Got some drivers you want to run with DOS games? Those don't work, even in "boot to DOS" mode, they all tell you to not run this within Windows.

Not sure what you're referring to, specfically?

If you are planning on running lots of DOS stuff with real hardware, just forget Win9x and install DOS 6.22 with DOS shell, it's far less headache.

That would restrict you to a 2 GB partition.

While I'm at it, since Windows ME doesn't have "boot to DOS" as an option, it's an even better choice for high end Windows 9x gaming.

It's an even better choice because it lacks a feature that has no effect on performance..?

Thief and System Shock 2 are two games I remember refusing to work on WinNT, they require some flavor of 9x.

Enormously popular as those games are, quality fixes have been available for many years now.

Reply 16 of 23, by Joseph_Joestar

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notsofossil wrote on 2020-09-25, 01:46:

Got some drivers you want to run with DOS games? Those don't work, even in "boot to DOS" mode, they all tell you to not run this within Windows.

If you're referring to Creative's CTCU/CTCM, there are official drivers which were specifically made to work under the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" option of Win9x. The readme gives you detailed instructions on how to set them up.

Phil has a video showcasing that.

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 17 of 23, by dr_st

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Jorpho wrote on 2020-09-25, 02:09:
notsofossil wrote on 2020-09-25, 01:46:

Got some drivers you want to run with DOS games? Those don't work, even in "boot to DOS" mode, they all tell you to not run this within Windows.

Not sure what you're referring to, specfically?

Probably the CTCM/CTCU stuff, which everyone already knows.

Jorpho wrote on 2020-09-25, 02:09:
notsofossil wrote on 2020-09-25, 01:46:

If you are planning on running lots of DOS stuff with real hardware, just forget Win9x and install DOS 6.22 with DOS shell, it's far less headache.

That would restrict you to a 2 GB partition.

To a total of approximately 7.84GB across 4 partitions, actually.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-09-25, 06:39:

If you're referring to Creative's CTCU/CTCM, there are official drivers which were specifically made to work under the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" option of Win9x. The readme gives you detailed instructions on how to set them up.

Or you can just change one byte inside CTCU/CTCM with a hex editor.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 18 of 23, by Bruninho

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DOS Games.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 19 of 23, by WarGreymon77

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I honestly can't remember whether I used DOS mode or just ran the old games from within Windows. I think I remember feeling like I had to run DOS games in DOS mode (I was only a kid at the time), so I did. I can't see any reason why a DOS program wouldn't work in Windows 98 just fine, though. It's got plenty of compatibility thingies and virtual machines built into the OS, if I recall. In fact, I would think they would run better under Windows, due to drivers and whatnot being more readily available.